NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 8

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BBM

Supposedly, LE told the Judge (FM's lawsuit against LE for Maura's case files) that they had 75% of the evidence needed to convict someone. Also, according to Renner's blog, there were Grand Jury subpoenas at one time in this case. To me, this info suggests foul play. However, LE could be wrong on the suspect, or even going in the wrong direction in the cause of her disappearance. Hard to know what is going on or exactly where they are at in this investigation.


It's been awhile but I admit, I couldn't stay away forever. I am interested in getting some resolution to what happened to maura.

And my gosh look at the crazyness going on with the Maura Murray case since the latest anniversary date of her wreck has gone by.

But to address your quote above, I would point out that a lot has been made about the assistant AG making the statement about a 75 percent chance of getting a conviction (making this case seem criminal), but I would counter that this assistant AG was under pressure to release the papers about this case to the public and that was his way (making that goofy statement) of keeping the pressure off of him.

here is a link to one of the actual court cases involving fred murray and the state of NH.

I think its 25 minutes long or so, but if you get past the judges ripping on Fred's represenative, you will see the judges ripping on the NH state's represenative for why they are keeping the papers of the case under wraps.

Either way enjoy and lets all help keep the discussion alive. this case is solvable.

http://www.courts.nh.gov/pastsessions/november06/20060113va.asx
 
I think LE could obtain the entire MM Topix thread without taking all 12,000 posts down and if there were a few objectionable threads request that they be individually deleted. Perhaps it was taken down so that LE couldn't put two and two together about a few posters (not "Beagle") who might have been the same person and who purported to be EMS/formerLE/paralegal? Those same poster(s) (correct McSpy) also wrote that they had been told secondhand about how and where Patric Mc and Louise Chaput's bodies were found by fellow searchers. One certain and distinct typo was made by those posters and I think "mr112dirtbag" (who some believe to be "Beagle") might have noticed that as well as. The YouTube poster "mr112dirtbag" also went on to infer that some of the above Topix posters had the same IP address.

For days posters on Topix Franconia discussed how FM "probably" killed his daughter as some sort of family honor killing and burned her remains in an incinerator at his place of employment in Bridgeport, CT. That sort of nonsense was tolerated and endorsed by forum "moderators". If, however, posters tried to discuss where a perpetrator might have been watching for MM at, say, a Woodsville gas station when she passed by, that conversation got nipped in the bid by the moderator and the "EMS/LE/paralegal" posse.

The same poster who claimed he was told about where bodies were found also stated he could bring down the entire Topix thread if he wanted to at any given time. Now that "mr112dirtbag" is pointing the finger at that poster and his possible aliases the old thread has evaporated.

EMS/LE/paralegal? I've been following Topix for years and you've lost me on this one. I know the EMS reference - I know two LE/former LE posters - and I've posted (and debated ad nauseum with Beagle) as a legal researcher / assistant state's attorney. I recently got into a multi-page back and forth with Beagle over a one-man grand jury. Beagle slapped me with a half-dozen links to random media articles referencing the rarely-used, dinosaur-esque process off a one-man grand jury, and we went back on forth on the matter for a few days.

Other than myself, I don't know anyone who posts on Topix as a legal professional/attorney/paralegal (well, as of the past year or so, I should say....Mason was an attorney,and an acclaimed one at that!).

Further, I'd bet you a shiny penny that WTF-Bill and/or FrmLE, and/or Columbo, are not Beagle. It's just not the case, IMO, speaking as a close follower of that thread for years.

Note: Beagle did utilize, and have conversations with himself, via other monikers - I can't recall all of them off-hand. I'll try to think of them and post.
 
The one thing that stays with me is this account by a weel-known local resident, RO, who saw and subsequently reported to police the sighting of the suspicious red truck half an hour before Maura vanished.

Here is what she wrote on another forum 5 years ago:

"I wish I could give an exact description of the truck but I can not. I was walking that night about 7 p.m to the local store (SSS). As I was walking up the hill (Route 112), a truck passed me and slowed down. When it got to the middle of the hill it stopped in the road. I immediately looked at the plate and noticed it was from Massachusetts. There is only 1 street light there and I could not tell how many people were in the vehicle. As I got closer to the truck it took off up the hill. When I rounded the corner to the store, I could see the truck in the driveway of the store. As I walked into the parking lot, which is well lit, the truck took off toward the crash site, (of course at that time I did not know there was a crash).

"As for the red truck, it slowed, then stopped and waited for me to get closer, then took off up the hill. He did not leave the store parking lot in any sort of hurry.

"When I entered the store I asked if she (WM) saw the people in that truck and she said no, no one had come in. I told her about them stopping in the hill. Then we just forgot about it. I stood in the store a while and was there when the police and ambulance went by. I never saw that truck again. The only way I can describe it is that it looked like someone who delivered wood. That was my first thought about it........red, MA plates and delivered wood. Either having a wood body or even just slats in the body. It was not a king cab or extra cab. Just a regular truck. That is all I can tell you.

"I was in the Swiftwater store for 1/2 hour - 45 minutes. It was about 20-30 minutes after I was there that the police went by. I am not at all Maura's size and in fact I was bundled up that night. I believe I caught the truck off guard as I was walking well off the road and as they passed I walked back on, which is why I believe they stopped completely. They could not see me without any street lights and maybe went to the store and waited for me to get up there to get a better look??? I don't know. That is just how it seemed to me.

"The truck didn't scare me. My thought is that they/he/she thought I was someone else. That is what I was thinking that night. When I saw them sitting at the store, I again thought, they really think I am someone else. And as I got closer and I could see the driver moving around - I was thinking, there, I am not the person you are looking for, and he drove off. I wish to God I could remember what I was wearing that night, but I can't.

"Someone asked about the truck and whether it was 4 wheel drive. I believe it was. I have been looking at trucks and have determined that it was definitely a four wheel drive or at least it was a 3/4 ton pick up, because it sat up high. The other thing I remember is that the window in the back was hard to see in....it wasn't very large.....which tells me it was an older truck maybe???"

Was the Swiftwater store east of Maura's accident or west? Also, which direction did the police come from to get the accident? TIA
 
Was the Swiftwater store east of Maura's accident or west? Also, which direction did the police come from to get the accident? TIA

The only store I know about which I believe is the swiftwater store is west of the accident scene and not all that far. Maura would've passed the store on the way to making the curve around the weatherd barn. She could've easily back-tracked and walked to the store for help after her accident and gotten there in less than 10 minutes. Store would've been open, I believe because accident was around 7:10 or 7:15 p.m.

Not sure on the police, but you had at least a dozen firemen responding as well as noted by one of the investigators. That particular night in nearby Haverhill there was some sort of firemen's gathering/meeting of neighboring towns and when the call came out, they all responded at once and helped search.
 
You had a swarm of firemen along with police responding to the accident and communicating to one another.

I just can't believe someone was listening to a scanner, heard about the wreck, heard all these officials talking about converging upon the scene ... and then thinking to themselves, hmm, this would be a great time to go abduct this person.

It also helps in making me doubt the theory that maura was traveling with someone or following behind someone.

That person would've had to have the foresight to know that as soon as maura wrecked, they better hide and lay low until witnessess (Such as the SBD) had come and gone.

If I am traveling and I have someone following behind me like a family member and they were to wreck, I would immediately head to the accident scene and check on the family member and make sure they were OK.
 
You had a swarm of firemen along with police responding to the accident and communicating to one another.

I just can't believe someone was listening to a scanner, heard about the wreck, heard all these officials talking about converging upon the scene ... and then thinking to themselves, hmm, this would be a great time to go abduct this person.

It also helps in making me doubt the theory that maura was traveling with someone or following behind someone.

That person would've had to have the foresight to know that as soon as maura wrecked, they better hide and lay low until witnessess (Such as the SBD) had come and gone.

If I am traveling and I have someone following behind me like a family member and they were to wreck, I would immediately head to the accident scene and check on the family member and make sure they were OK.

I agree that no one was following her or traveling with her. I think she went up to NH alone. There is no proof supporting anyone traveling up there with her. There would have been a phone call or email between them and as far as we know, there wasn't anything like that found. I don't think someone listening to a scanner went after her either. If she was abducted, in my opinion, it was from someone happening by and they asked her if she needed a lift somewhere. I think it was as simple as that.
 
EMS/LE/paralegal? I've been following Topix for years and you've lost me on this one. I know the EMS reference - I know two LE/former LE posters - and I've posted (and debated ad nauseum with Beagle) as a legal researcher / assistant state's attorney. I recently got into a multi-page back and forth with Beagle over a one-man grand jury. Beagle slapped me with a half-dozen links to random media articles referencing the rarely-used, dinosaur-esque process off a one-man grand jury, and we went back on forth on the matter for a few days. Other than myself, I don't know anyone who posts on Topix as a legal professional/attorney/paralegal (well, as of the past year or so, I should say....Mason was an attorney, and an acclaimed one at that!). Further, I'd bet you a shiny penny that WTF-Bill and/or FrmLE, and/or Columbo, are not Beagle. It's just not the case, IMO, speaking as a close follower of that thread for years.

I agree, Beagle is Beagle. Why don't you register as a Professional Poster and/or a Verified Local/Insider here on Websleuths? BTW, did you ever run into a former poster here called "Cyberlaw"?
 
I agree, Beagle is Beagle. Why don't you register as a Professional Poster and/or a Verified Local/Insider here on Websleuths? BTW, did you ever run into a former poster here called "Cyberlaw"?

I contacted WS regarding that - I'm verified on another forum that accepted contacting me at my office as verification. I believe it was Kimster (or another mod, forgive me if I am wrong) that emailed me, stating that I need some form of a certification, something I could scan, to verify. Since I have not passed the bar in Illinois, I am not a practicing, licensed attorney. I am a lowly 3rd year in school.
Since I do have my undergrad in Political Science as a paralegal I wonder if they would accept that as verification?
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So to answer your question further, I've never (yet!) ran into a situation where I could input anything requiring legal knowledge. On Topix I have, but that was, as I stated, an "argument" with Beagle regarding the one-man grand jury.
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Although I've read Cyberlaw's posts (years ago) I've never replied to a post by them, nor 'met' them anywhere else in cyberspace. IIRC, (and it's entirely feasible that I don't) -- wasn't Cyberlaw a Canadian who was convinced Maura ran away to start a new life? I'm fuzzy on this portion, but I had thought that Cyberlaw was purportedly a legal professional, then that was discovered to be false? (Note: I'm absolutely fuzzy on the second portion, so take it with a heap of salt.)
May I ask why you would think I know Cyberlaw? Color me confused. :)
 
I think LE could obtain the entire MM Topix thread without taking all 12,000 posts down and if there were a few objectionable threads request that they be individually deleted. Perhaps it was taken down so that LE couldn't put two and two together about a few posters (not "Beagle") who might have been the same person and who purported to be EMS/formerLE/paralegal? Those same poster(s) (correct McSpy) also wrote that they had been told secondhand about how and where Patric Mc and Louise Chaput's bodies were found by fellow searchers. One certain and distinct typo was made by those posters and I think "mr112dirtbag" (who some believe to be "Beagle") might have noticed that as well as. The YouTube poster "mr112dirtbag" also went on to infer that some of the above Topix posters had the same IP address.

For days posters on Topix Franconia discussed how FM "probably" killed his daughter as some sort of family honor killing and burned her remains in an incinerator at his place of employment in Bridgeport, CT. That sort of nonsense was tolerated and endorsed by forum "moderators". If, however, posters tried to discuss where a perpetrator might have been watching for MM at, say, a Woodsville gas station when she passed by, that conversation got nipped in the bid by the moderator and the "EMS/LE/paralegal" posse.

The same poster who claimed he was told about where bodies were found also stated he could bring down the entire Topix thread if he wanted to at any given time. Now that "mr112dirtbag" is pointing the finger at that poster and his possible aliases the old thread has evaporated.

I'm still confused by this post of yours, but I don't think I conveyed myself well in my initial reply. My apologies.

I had thought you were theorizing that the EMS/Paralegal/LE posters were the same person (and I've no idea which particular posters you are referencing, but I would think FrmLE, Columbo, WTF-Bill, perhaps, but again, that's my opinion...could be wrong!) I don't think they are the same person for a slew of reasons, namely that Columbo is an actual PI working for the Murray family (gratis, I should mention) and he did meet with some other posters on the Topix thread years back, at a Dunkin' Donuts. (The reference for this is the now-defunct Topix thread, but there are references to this meeting in the current thread).
Given WTF-Bill's input throughout the years, and the shifting allegiances between old-school posters on Topix, I'm lead to believe there's no love lost between himself and Columbo. In fact, he's openly questioned Columbo's ability at investigating (most recently, a post yesterday or today in reference to Columbo's inability to locate a poster named 'John Green.)
This suggests that they are not, in fact, the same person - at least, to me it does.
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However, I do agree that many people are multi-moniker'd over at Topix (it's the nature of the mildly-moderated beast.)
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You stated above that the "same poster(s)..wrote that they had been told secondhand about how and where Patric Mc and Louise Chaput's bodies were found"....was that in the Maura Murray thread? Or in the thread particular to those two individuals? I've only read the Maura Murray threads over at Topix, but I'd like to see those posts. If those posts were made by one of the frequent posters on the Maura Murray thread (and I think that's what you are saying, forgive me if I am incorrect)...I would be very interested to read it - good find.
 
Was the Swiftwater store east of Maura's accident or west? Also, which direction did the police come from to get the accident? TIA

If you search on Google maps for Bath, NH you'll see Route 302. Route 112 begins off Route 302. The convenience store is on Route 112 and is 2.5 miles from that junction (heading south-east) and the crash site is 1 mile further along or 3.5 from the junction.
 
The only store I know about which I believe is the swiftwater store is west of the accident scene and not all that far. Maura would've passed the store on the way to making the curve around the weatherd barn. She could've easily back-tracked and walked to the store for help after her accident and gotten there in less than 10 minutes. Store would've been open, I believe because accident was around 7:10 or 7:15 p.m.

Not sure on the police, but you had at least a dozen firemen responding as well as noted by one of the investigators. That particular night in nearby Haverhill there was some sort of firemen's gathering/meeting of neighboring towns and when the call came out, they all responded at once and helped search.[/QUOTE]

BBM

If I'm reading your post correctly, it sounds like they were coming from the west in response to her accident. I wasn't aware that they also helped with the search. Did they do it that evening and did they go east with their search as well?

There must have been a lot of commotion at the accident scene with a lot of flashing lights, people milling about and noise.
 
The only store I know about which I believe is the swiftwater store is west of the accident scene and not all that far. Maura would've passed the store on the way to making the curve around the weatherd barn. She could've easily back-tracked and walked to the store for help after her accident and gotten there in less than 10 minutes. Store would've been open, I believe because accident was around 7:10 or 7:15 p.m.

Not sure on the police, but you had at least a dozen firemen responding as well as noted by one of the investigators. That particular night in nearby Haverhill there was some sort of firemen's gathering/meeting of neighboring towns and when the call came out, they all responded at once and helped search.[/QUOTE]

BBM

If I'm reading your post correctly, it sounds like they were coming from the west in response to her accident. I wasn't aware that they also helped with the search. Did they do it that evening and did they go east with their search as well?

There must have been a lot of commotion at the accident scene with a lot of flashing lights, people milling about and noise.

Yeah, I am not 100 percent sure, I am just going off of a radio interview done with one of the investigators. But you hear that no searches were done, and then you hear about all the firemen that responded that night, you would only assume that some sort of search was done to locate maura. The investigator during the radio interview implyed that a search was done that night by all of the firemen, the school bus driver and the responding officer.

But IMHO, I doubt the search was a very formal one, most likely, you go this way, you go that way and you go this way and meet back up in 30 minutes.

In my opinion, at the intial time of the accident and accident response, no one felt a big crime had taken place, so the search likely wasn't that intense. They figured it was someone fleeing a DUI charge likely and that they would turn up on their own the next day (wanting to claim their car).
 
Just to clear up

I went back and listened to the radio interview and it was one fire department not a bunch of neighboring town fire departments. This one fire department was having a monthly department meeting that night when the call to maura's wreck came out. And so they all responded to the accident site and according to the investigator John Healy (Sp) they spent about 30 to 35 minutes trying to track down the driver of the car by looking around both on foot and by vehicle for the person and for footprints in the snow that trailed off into the woods.
 
Danby is actually closer to Haverhill than Montgomery, where Brianna disappeared from.
 
Danby is actually closer to Haverhill than Montgomery, where Brianna disappeared from.

That's very true. I have nothing factual to back this up, but for some reason, I'd find it more likely that Brianna's killer(s) (and I'm comfortable opining that Brianna was killed) would head near Danby, because if I read the map correctly, that's near the national forest, yes? Good place to hide a body.

Then again -- I'm a Chicago girl myself, and I've never had the opportunity to head to the Northeast. So, I could be wrong...reading a map is never as informative as knowing the terrain. Just my two cents.
 
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