NJ NJ - Brick Twp, Old Toms River Rd, UnkRace/Sex 18-99, UP14935, skull, Mar'16

[Roselvr]

Sad the area has become such a garbage dump. Within my lifetime the township went from sparsely populated to the 13th largest community in the entire State of NJ.

My grandmother moved down there in the 1970's when the first wave of retirement communities were being built and if she were still around she'd be appalled at that amount of garbage being strewn around.

I grew up near Elizabeth/ Union; one of our neighbors and her adult son moved there plus 3 of my family. I also have an ex BF from high school plus few other North Jersey people that live there. I lived 30 minutes west near Fort Dix/ McGuire, Brick is too congested for me

I'm confused. Why wouldn't they list John Doe as being Asian on his NamUs if they're pretty sure that he's Asian?

Gonna send Pam the info

http://brick.shorebeat.com/2016/09/few-new-clues-no-leads-in-case-of-skull-discovered-in-brick/
This article says it's an Asian male at least 18 years old and has been out in the elements at least a year. I think it's Norman Chin.

One of these photos are flipped. The top one makes it look like the left side is in better shape, the 2nd photo shows the right side in better shape. The 2nd photo has a ruler which makes me believe it's the 1st photo that's wrong.

 

[KaylaraOwl]

I have no idea how to do forensic artistry, otherwise I would have attempted something on this skull to see if he looks like any of the Asian males missing from NJ.

 

[Collateral]

I can see the confusion as far as the 2 pictures go. It does look as if the top picture is flipped, but after looking again you can see that the picture is taken from the back of the skull. Not that this has anything to do with the case itself, just thought I'd chime in.

 

[iliketotalk15]

Did anyone put in John Fernandez or Norman Chin? I came in here originally looking for a match for John. Officials can't be too sure of the date, considering the wide range of dates of the people they are checking?

 

[madamx]

What about Irene Silverman from NYC she went missing in 1998 and was supposedly dumped in NJ
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Manhattan-5-July-1998-*S-amp-K-Kimes-guilty*

 

[carbuff]

Also:

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/14935

DNA

Status: Complete - Insufficient DNA for profiling

 

[Alleykins]

Also:

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/14935

DNA

Status: Complete - Insufficient DNA for profiling

That really stinks. I understand the condition in which remains are found, and the decomposition of the remains play a part in being able to obtain DNA. However, when they find a 3k year old mummy or frozen cave man in the Alps, somehow, they are able to do it. It boggles my mind sometimes.

 

[carbuff]

That really stinks. I understand the condition in which remains are found, and the decomposition of the remains play a part in being able to obtain DNA. However, when they find a 3k year old mummy or frozen cave man in the Alps, somehow, they are able to do it. It boggles my mind sometimes.

They almost never get DNA good enough to use for forensic identification of an individual though. What science can use for research is far more flexible. Most likely in this case they have some DNA but not the strong 13-locus result needed for the automated system. It might be good enough for a comparison by hand, to allow them to rule out many possibilities or investigate further for confirmation.



Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

 

[KaylaraOwl]

Did anyone put in John Fernandez or Norman Chin? I came in here originally looking for a match for John. Officials can't be too sure of the date, considering the wide range of dates of the people they are checking?

It looks much tooold to be John to me. Honestly, I'm thinking John might be up by where he went hiking. I'll double check and see if either have been ruled out. (I wanted to give them time to do their thing, and they seemed to be going full steam ahead on this before.) I'll submit Norman if he's not already on the rule out list. You're welcome to submit John though.

 

[madamx]

I thought I would post this here since Richard Cottingham was from Bergen NJ.. he killed a bunch of women but 2 of the women he killed their heads and hands where never found.. and one of the women to this day still remains unidentified.


On December 2, 1979, New York City firemen responded to an alarm at the Travel Inn, a seedy hotel on West 42nd Street, not far from Times Square. They fought their way through smoky corridors to quench a blaze inside one room, discovering two women's bodies there. Stretched out on separate beds, the two headless corpses that also had their hands removed; what was left of the corpses was doused with lighter fluid and set on fire.

The missing body parts were never found, but X-rays identified one victim as 22-year-old Deedeh Goodarzi, a Kuwaiti immigrant who earned her living as a prostitute. Goodarzi's young companion in death was never identified, police estimated her age was just sixteen. The victims’ clothing was found folded in the bathtub in two neat stacks with their platform shoes on top of each pile. Except for blood on the mattresses, the hotel room was remarkably free of any bloodstains, fingerprints, or any other evidence. Whatever the killer used to dismember the bodies, he took it with him. The crime reminded homicide detectives of another unsolved case, the murder of Helen Sikes, and cops began to realize they were looking for a serial killer stalking Times Square

http://www.noiryork.net/2016/05/richard-cottingham-times-square-ripper.html

 

[Otterly]

I thought I would post this here since Richard Cottingham was from Bergen NJ.. he killed a bunch of women but 2 of the women he killed their heads and hands where never found.. and one of the women to this day still remains unidentified.


On December 2, 1979, New York City firemen responded to an alarm at the Travel Inn, a seedy hotel on West 42nd Street, not far from Times Square. They fought their way through smoky corridors to quench a blaze inside one room, discovering two women's bodies there. Stretched out on separate beds, the two headless corpses that also had their hands removed; what was left of the corpses was doused with lighter fluid and set on fire.

The missing body parts were never found, but X-rays identified one victim as 22-year-old Deedeh Goodarzi, a Kuwaiti immigrant who earned her living as a prostitute. Goodarzi's young companion in death was never identified, police estimated her age was just sixteen. The victims’ clothing was found folded in the bathtub in two neat stacks with their platform shoes on top of each pile. Except for blood on the mattresses, the hotel room was remarkably free of any bloodstains, fingerprints, or any other evidence. Whatever the killer used to dismember the bodies, he took it with him. The crime reminded homicide detectives of another unsolved case, the murder of Helen Sikes, and cops began to realize they were looking for a serial killer stalking Times Square

http://www.noiryork.net/2016/05/richard-cottingham-times-square-ripper.html View attachment 125025

Wow, I found this UID a few days ago when I looked at Cottingham's Wikipedia page. Thanks for posting this!

 

[KaylaraOwl]

Bergen is quite a ways north of Brick. And given the area, it would very much surprise me if this was connected because it probably would have been found prior to when it was. Thanks for the interesting read though!

 

[madamx]

Yeah, I was not sure but I thought Id post it, since the heads were never found and the guy was from New Jersey.. stranger things have happened.. I had actually posted him on Midtown Jane Doe before I thought about this case..

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...er-concrete-Feb-03&highlight=midtown+jane+doe

 

[carbuff]

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

Updated link. 61 ruleouts.

 

[sharebear]

So many missing and unsolved cases

 

[sharebear]

They almost never get DNA good enough to use for forensic identification of an individual though. What science can use for research is far more flexible. Most likely in this case they have some DNA but not the strong 13-locus result needed for the automated system. It might be good enough for a comparison by hand, to allow them to rule out many possibilities or investigate further for confirmation.



Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

Does DNA disappear after a person is in the elements? So many including Lisk serial murder case seems to have little to no matches .

 

[carbuff]

Does DNA disappear after a person is in the elements? So many including Lisk serial murder case seems to have little to no matches .

Yes, it deteriorates with age, exposure to elements, chemicals including those in soil or water, heat, etc. etc. Since I wrote that post, they've developed several techniques that let them get DNA from old remains--more can be extracted, they have techniques to copy what they do get so even if it's a tiny amount it can be made useful, and the little fragmented bits can be put together to make a usuable strand.

The new techniques are complicated and slow--but I'm sure the price and ease will both become more usable in a year or two as technology advances. And as more cases are solved using DNA, other LE agencies become more interested in using it.

So hopefully we'll see some progress in many of our old cases. Knock on wood.

 

[Alleykins]

Yes, it deteriorates with age, exposure to elements, chemicals including those in soil or water, heat, etc. etc. Since I wrote that post, they've developed several techniques that let them get DNA from old remains--more can be extracted, they have techniques to copy what they do get so even if it's a tiny amount it can be made useful, and the little fragmented bits can be put together to make a usuable strand.

The new techniques are complicated and slow--but I'm sure the price and ease will both become more usable in a year or two as technology advances. And as more cases are solved using DNA, other LE agencies become more interested in using it.

So hopefully we'll see some progress in many of our old cases. Knock on wood.

BBM for clarity
I think you're right, Carbuff.
Look how far we've come in a few short years:
In the 2015 press conf. for the A4 NH victims where they announced the isotope findings, the AG said (paraphrased) they'd exhausted all of the technology available at that time and were out of options. Four years later, they're super duper close to being officially ID'd with the latest in DNA testing.

 

[carbuff]

Exclusions The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

MP29785 Jeanne Antill 07/09/1991 Somerset NJ
MP13017 George Bastidas 10/02/1989 Bergen NJ
MP28545 Barry Brown 09/29/2014 Atlantic NJ
MP34554 Viola Butler 02/19/1989 Atlantic NJ
MP19969 Lola Carney 09/12/1982 Gloucester NJ
MP606 Amanda Carroll 05/02/2000 Hunterdon NJ
MP34471 Angela Cephas 05/04/1984 Cumberland NJ
MP15203 Joan Conetta 06/10/2012 Ocean NJ
MP5620 Danielle Day 03/30/2001 Camden NJ
MP8408 Patricia DePunte 03/18/1990 Atlantic NJ
MP737 Edward DuBarry 09/07/1984 Morris NJ
MP26318 Mary Fisher 07/24/1997 Monmouth NJ
MP32502 Kevin Fountain 01/01/2005 Union NJ
MP19657 Ann Fulton 04/23/1971 Somerset NJ
MP9855 Robert Gilmore Jr. 03/10/2009 Camden NJ
MP766 Amy Giordano 06/07/2007 Mercer NJ
MP9007 Richard Hudson 03/09/1991 Monmouth NJ
MP9839 Elba Irizarry 06/22/1994 Camden NJ
MP1228 William Jamison 03/27/1981 Union NJ
MP14957 Richard Jargowsky Jr. 02/08/2008 Cape May NJ
MP1230 Tomiene Jones 04/18/2002 Gloucester NJ
MP10040 Theodore Kampf 07/11/1981 Camden NJ
MP26512 Hakan Karacay 09/20/1999 Passaic NJ
MP19060 Theresa Kawash 07/04/1982 Bergen NJ
MP3914 Bonita Krummel 01/23/1991 Burlington NJ
MP12603 Denese Laird 09/25/2010 Passaic NJ
MP1232 Renee LaManna 01/08/1994 Cape May NJ
MP17197 Julia Madsen 06/25/2009 Ocean NJ
MP30232 Frank Martin 11/02/1992 Monmouth NJ
MP6352 Francheska Martinez 06/09/2000 Passaic NJ
MP3834 Margarita Medina 02/09/2002 Camden NJ
MP14505 Darius Miniotas 11/19/1994 Middlesex NJ
MP12750 Frances Morales 04/01/1990 Cumberland NJ
MP7975 Liza Murphy 08/19/2007 Bergen NJ
MP19622 Charles Murphy 04/26/1982 Bergen NJ
MP6478 Anastasiya Ovetsky 07/19/1999 Middlesex NJ
MP12839 David Piacentine 11/08/2010 Cape May NJ
MP28122 Mefibocet Polanco 11/17/2014 Hudson NJ
MP24351 John Poltonowicz 04/18/2014 Burlington NJ
MP13012 Maria Reyes 03/19/1976 Passaic NJ
MP1237 Victor Richardson III 05/10/2000 Middlesex NJ
MP20143 Brandon Robbins 08/21/1982 Cape May NJ
MP39445 Yeda Rosenthal 02/22/1991 Camden NJ
MP5592 Maryanne Ruffini 01/26/1996 Middlesex NJ
MP14803 Nicole Russo 03/12/1995 Ocean NJ
MP1341 William* Schmidbauer 09/23/2007 Ocean NJ
MP4381 Lisa Schmidt 10/02/1994 Hudson NJ
MP3840 Kenneth Schweighart 03/02/1982 Burlington NJ
MP24697 Stephen Sciallo 03/08/2004 Middlesex NJ
MP8348 Toni Sharpless 08/23/2009 Chester PA
MP23680 Vanessa Smallwood 01/27/2014 Camden NJ
MP1241 Betty Smith 10/01/1991 Mercer NJ
MP14837 Hans Suttle 12/17/2001 Ocean NJ
MP11003 Charles Teets 02/01/1987 Burlington NJ
MP1244 Carla Vicentini 02/09/2006 Essex NJ
MP15121 Arthur Wakefield Jr 08/05/2006 Middlesex NJ
MP11087 John Weisbecker 03/11/2009 Cape May NJ
MP27242 Siegfried Woelki 10/04/1982 Morris NJ
MP8379 Carmela Yacavino 01/19/2005 Essex NJ
MP2973 Christopher Zahl 05/12/1994 Monmouth NJ
MP28772 Stanley Zdep 05/15/2015 Ocean NJ