NM NM - Patty Pritz, 14, & Mattie Restine, 13, Carlsbad, 11 Aug 1961 - #1

[Finder50]

Church Street pick-up.....

The Eddy County Sheriff's Department has always known more than they have been willing to say. After this long, that info about a Church Street pick-up or abduction should have been part of the public record with witness statements to back it up, and you, SS1950, weren't allowed to have it.

In the mean time, they've lost evidence, and it's hard to say whether they've messed up this investigation with their own ineptitude or whether there's been a cover up as you've suspected all along. The truth needs to come out, and I don't think you're going to get it out of them at this late date either. So it's time to go the route we talked about, get the answers, and bring this farce to a halt.

If this Church Street pick up or abduction site has anything to do with someone or several in Eddy Co. Sheriff's office still trying to lay blame on McGrew, then I think for sure this is a cover up because I don't believe for one second that man could come to your house over and over, been so comfortable around your grieving family, and have committed this crime. From what you've said about McGrew, just the opposite was true, that he was a caring man, concerned with bringing justice to bear on the person or persons who committed this crime, and was shot for his efforts.

They are going to find themselves in a heap of trouble if no autopsy was done on McGrew, and in trying to explain how evidence has been lost in this case, and they will have to explain it! There is no excuse for losing evidence. So maybe they will turn that place upside down and find the things they've lost.

Skip the letters to the senators, and go to the one person we talked about who can do something. There is no time to spare. You will need to name the names of the investigators who tried to reopen this case in 1973?, and whose efforts were dismissed. Those are old men now, and what they might remember is of utmost importance here.

Legacy can probably provide you with reasonably current addresses and phone numbers for them if they are still living. She has an Ancestry account, and I know she can access more current information through it if given a general idea as to their whereabouts.

Didn't I read in one of the newspaper articles on Deputy McGrew's death that he had been advised by his doctor to see a specialist in El Paso? That could mean that he had some type of serious illness, and in 1961 if you were diagnosed with something like cancer it wasn't anywhere near as curable as it is today. Unfortunately, people looked at it as being a long slow death sentence and if they didn't have adequate coverage it could cost them every cent their family might have.

Also, another thing that I have learned is that New Mexico is one of the very few states in which polygraph results are admissable in a court of law under certain circumstances. This is something that WDB might have been aware of because of his prior problems with LE and the reason that LE could never catch up with him to take the test.

I think one of the big problems with the loss of evidence is that in the beginning the New Mexico State Police colected part of evidence and the Eddy County Sheriff's Department colected part of it. The reason I say that is because Estrada stated in his report that he visited with someone with the New Mexico State Police at a get together and got some of the evidence. I would have thought that one agency would have been responsible for the custodianship of the evidence, but I guess in this instance not.

 

[Pecos45]

Finder - I recall the same thing about McGrew and his health and back then anything suspicious medically was usually referred to El Paso. So he could have been depressed about that.

The odd thing about his suicide is where he shot himself.

 

[flipdullpenny]

It could be that Melton wore gloves to change that tire that is seen in the open trunk of that car, W.D. worked at the mine and miners wear hard hats so perhaps he had just gotten off work. I don't remember the date of that photo but I know that Blair didn't work that Sunday the 13th, or....did he?? and forgot to take off the hat, or maybe it just looks like a hard hat but was some other type of cap. Also, if he worked under ground at the mine the hat would have a round light on the front of it.
Melton is holding something small and white in his left hand, maybe a hankerchief? Could there have been something in it? spent shell casings??

Looking back at the picture #521, If you know Carlsbad, and the newspaper, you would question also. There is a large man and a small man, I was told Melton was a large man and wore a size 13 boots. Could the smaller man have worn a size 7-1/2 size boots? The paper says Blair is pointing, but it seams to be Melton is pointing, the larger man. I have to question this? Could anyone check this out? It makes more sense that the small man was Blair, with the gloves on for a reason, and a cowboy hat as it was his day off. The larger man pointing would be Melton, with a hard hat (an old miner surface type hat, not underground with big light) as he had been working that day. Blair was off the days, and working on the car, I think he was cleaning the car.

 

[Sunshine 1950]

Finder - I recall the same thing about McGrew and his health and back then anything suspicious medically was usually referred to El Paso. So he could have been depressed about that.

The odd thing about his suicide is where he shot himself.

Plus the cop for Texas was on the phone with him when he supposedly killed himself??? Just sounds weird to me. I would have never thought McGrew would have killed himself. Still don't believe it.

 

[TOM BEYER]

I visited the points of interested in Carlsbad this past Sunday. The visit to the area where the bodies were found was very interesting, but raised more questions than answering any. The dirt road (actually a rock road) is located 0.5 miles west of Hwy. 285 along Hwy. 137. The reason for the difference from the Estrada report (he lists 0.7 miles) was explained to me by a childhood friend of Patty Pritz. Hwy. 285 has been moved west 0.2 miles west from its position in 1961. By the metal gate entrance (rocky road runs north from 137) are two large metal crosses for Mattie and Patty. This is one of the only good things about this terrible case. The crosses are made of welded metal and are planted in concrete. This is a permanent memorial.
The road is very unused and is very rocky with a low vegetation growing in it. The terrain is flat for the first 0.5 miles with only 1’–2’ creosole bushes and exposed rocks. At 0.6 miles the road goes across a shallow arroyo. At 0.7 miles there is a small grassy (yellow desert grass) plain. You can see the sparse grass area in the Sunshine posted photos of the body site. Unfortunately, I was not able to exactly pinpoint the exact spots. I wanted to run my metal detector, but since I could have been 50 to 100 feet from the exact spots, I felt it would not have been worth it. The arroyo could have been used to bury a body, but the sparse grassy area would have been impossibly rocky underneath. Wish I would have talked to Patty’s friend before I went instead of after. She knew enough details that I may have been able to pin point the sites. However, I intend to return.
The “grassy” area is amazingly close to Hwy. 285, 300 – 400 feet. But, of course, in 1961 the highway would have been 0.1 - 0.2 miles further away (approx. 500 - 1000 feet). There were absolutely no rabbits! None. I had my two dogs along who love to chase rodents and they couldn’t find any.
Did the killer know the area? It is not an ideal place to hide a body with the low bushes and very rocky earth. Hwy. 137 is not the first exit going north on 285. There are several paved and dirt roads exiting off in both directions before 137. I do want to point out that Hwy 137 to CR 408 does provide a way to get south of Carlsbad without having to pass through the city. Perhaps someone lived south of Carlsbad. But the rocky road is the very first road of any kind off of 137. The killer may have known of 137, but just took the rocky road because it was the first one he found.

 

[TOM BEYER]

Let me get this straight. CT was friends with Dan McGrew (not surprising – LE are often friends with one another) and was invited by McGrew to go to the body location (still not surprising – LE from other jurisdictions can be invited by the investigating LE and considering that Eddy County at the time had had eight unsolved murders in the last five years – they needed all the help they can get).

CT happens to be the only LE officer to actually arrest someone in this 1961 case. (CT arresting someone in Pecos, TX would be coincidental, but not incredibly unusual. Many Carlsbad residents have Texas roots and connections and since CT is familiar with the case, he would looking for “the guilty”. But strangely, he arrests Buddy Parsons, a mentally disabled man, who could not even drive. The general consensus was that Parsons was incapable of committing the murders and disposing of the bodies. Parsons is later released. And not a single person over the decades (not CT nor Sunshine 1950), complains that “they let the perp go”.)

CT is on the phone with McGrew when he (McGrew) commits “suicide” (LE homicide investigators have the highest rates of suicide in LE, so a suicide would not be way out of the ordinary. But the conversation was, according to CT, on an unrelated case and not about suicide, so this alone makes it very odd. Further, McGrew supposedly kills himself at work (police station). 90% of suicides happen in personal areas (homes, cars, favorite outdoor places). According to CT, there was a “sound like a door slamming” and later CT finds out that McGrew committed suicide. As several sleuthers have pointed out, this is suspicious. CT being LE, should know the difference between a slamming door and a gun shot. And it seems awful “convenient” that CT should be on the phone, when McGrew does “commit suicide”. Estrada himself, seemed to regard this whole scenario as suspicious.)

Decades later, in 2003, CT contacts Estrada, claiming he has information, but sets conditions, such as Estrada has to first reveal what has been uncovered in the reopening of the case. (This is extraordinary! CT, as LE, knows that in an ongoing, open investigation, the chief official can not and should not reveal what has been uncovered. There are good reasons for keeping this information restricted. [I am of the belief that if an investigation has been cold for many years, much, if not all information should be made public. But that is another topic.] CT has absolutely no right or justification to set conditions on release of information. If he is not releasing critical information on a capital crime, then that may be crime in and of itself. If he does not have any information, then his interference with the investigation may be a crime, too. ) Estrada becomes suspicious of CT and makes note of it.

Several years later, CT contacts Sunshine 1950, again claiming to have information. He reveals nothing and angrily stops contact with her after Sunshine asks about involvement from the “B” family. (CT seems to either want to “pump” family members for info or “steer” them in a certain direction.)
CT has been like Forrest Gump in this case – all over the place. But unlike F. Gump’s naïve innocents, there is nothing innocent about CT’s involvement. In an incredible length of 45 years (may be a first in USA LE/criminal history), this man has contributed absolutely nothing and has wasted peoples time. At first, I thought he was a “want-to-be”. Here’s a LEO who wants to be a part of the “juiciest” criminal case in that region. Trouble with that scenario is that CT would definitely consider the “B” family to be of interest or suspects, if he were just a “want-to-be”. He would want to solve it and be a hero. We are left with “How guilty is CT?”

 

[Sunshine 1950]

Let me get this straight. CT was friends with Dan McGrew (not surprising – LE are often friends with one another) and was invited by McGrew to go to the body location (still not surprising – LE from other jurisdictions can be invited by the investigating LE and considering that Eddy County at the time had had eight unsolved murders in the last five years – they needed all the help they can get).

CT happens to be the only LE officer to actually arrest someone in this 1961 case. (CT arresting someone in Pecos, TX would be coincidental, but not incredibly unusual. Many Carlsbad residents have Texas roots and connections and since CT is familiar with the case, he would looking for “the guilty”. But strangely, he arrests Buddy Parsons, a mentally disabled man, who could not even drive. The general consensus was that Parsons was incapable of committing the murders and disposing of the bodies. Parsons is later released. And not a single person over the decades (not CT nor Sunshine 1950), complains that “they let the perp go”.)

CT is on the phone with McGrew when he (McGrew) commits “suicide” (LE homicide investigators have the highest rates of suicide in LE, so a suicide would not be way out of the ordinary. But the conversation was, according to CT, on an unrelated case and not about suicide, so this alone makes it very odd. Further, McGrew supposedly kills himself at work (police station). 90% of suicides happen in personal areas (homes, cars, favorite outdoor places). According to CT, there was a “sound like a door slamming” and later CT finds out that McGrew committed suicide. As several sleuthers have pointed out, this is suspicious. CT being LE, should know the difference between a slamming door and a gun shot. And it seems awful “convenient” that CT should be on the phone, when McGrew does “commit suicide”. Estrada himself, seemed to regard this whole scenario as suspicious.)

Decades later, in 2003, CT contacts Estrada, claiming he has information, but sets conditions, such as Estrada has to first reveal what has been uncovered in the reopening of the case. (This is extraordinary! CT, as LE, knows that in an ongoing, open investigation, the chief official can not and should not reveal what has been uncovered. There are good reasons for keeping this information restricted. [I am of the belief that if an investigation has been cold for many years, much, if not all information should be made public. But that is another topic.] CT has absolutely no right or justification to set conditions on release of information. If he is not releasing critical information on a capital crime, then that may be crime in and of itself. If he does not have any information, then his interference with the investigation may be a crime, too. ) Estrada becomes suspicious of CT and makes note of it.

Several years later, CT contacts Sunshine 1950, again claiming to have information. He reveals nothing and angrily stops contact with her after Sunshine asks about involvement from the “B” family. (CT seems to either want to “pump” family members for info or “steer” them in a certain direction.)
CT has been like Forrest Gump in this case – all over the place. But unlike F. Gump’s naïve innocents, there is nothing innocent about CT’s involvement. In an incredible length of 45 years (may be a first in USA LE/criminal history), this man has contributed absolutely nothing and has wasted peoples time. At first, I thought he was a “want-to-be”. Here’s a LEO who wants to be a part of the “juiciest” criminal case in that region. Trouble with that scenario is that CT would definitely consider the “B” family to be of interest or suspects, if he were just a “want-to-be”. He would want to solve it and be a hero. We are left with “How guilty is CT?”

WHO always shows up when something new has come into the Eddy County Sheriff's Department??? CT
He is either involved in the murders or he is trying to find out how he is implicated in these murders....maybe through the "B" families...
If he isn't guilty...then CT needs answer the questions he has been asked.
These people have really worked hard to find out information...but they give little in return.

 

[Pecos45]

Tom, I think the killer "knew" the area but he didn't know it...if you get my meaning. It was a DUMB place to leave the bodies, especially considering New Mexico is a great state to hide bodies. And you saw what I was talking about earlier that it is NOT a good area for rabbit hunting. I have found rabbits in that sort of terrain and vegetation but not many.

Quite frankly, McGrew's "suicide" sounds more like an accident to me. In fact, I pulled almost exactly the same stunt with a pistol years ago. I was "dry firing" an empty pistol and talking to a guy on the phone. When we hung up, I reloaded the pistol and put it in my night stand by the bed. Just then the guy called me back. Without thinking, I got the pistol out and started "dry firing" at books in my book case. Talk about DUMB. I shot a hole in a volume of my encyclopedias.:furious:

By the way, the guy on the phone did not know what the noise was. I think something as loud as a gunshot comes across most phones somewhat distorted. And if McGrew had the gun close to his body, it would have been muffled to some extent.

You're very right that the S.O. was a strange place for a suicide. Most want some privacy. And statistically I suspect more people accidentally shoot themselves each year than commit suicide. Even people very familiar with firearms can get careless and shoot themselves. I'm living proof of that.:loser:

 

[TOM BEYER]

Pecos45, I agree with all your points. At this point, I think it was an accidental shooting. I've "dry fired" my pistol and broke the firing mechanism. It's too easy to get causal with fire arms. And phones of the early 1960's had lots of distortion. But we've only explained some of Ct's behavior.

 

[Pecos45]

This guy CT really bugs me. He's obviously not interested in helping or doing anyone any good unless there is some payoff (obvious or not) for him. I see him as an ego maniac and he should have been told by ECSO to buzz off. And if he claimed he had something to either put up or shut up.

Sunshine pretty much told him this and he went sullen and won't talk to her. Hardly the behavior of one claiming they can help or even want to help.

He's a fraud in my book.

 

[Sunshine 1950]

This guy CT really bugs me. He's obviously not interested in helping or doing anyone any good unless there is some payoff (obvious or not) for him. I see him as an ego maniac and he should have been told by ECSO to buzz off. And if he claimed he had something to either put up or shut up.

Sunshine pretty much told him this and he went sullen and won't talk to her. Hardly the behavior of one claiming they can help or even want to help.

He's a fraud in my book.

Pecos I couldn't have said it any better....put up or shut.....love it.
According to INvestigator Sillas ....CT hasn't called him back to setup a time to talk with him. Of course...he told Sillas he would like to talk to him the first time they talked on the phone...but when Sillas talked with AB...CT hasn't answered his phone...to setup a meeting with Sillas. Almost an admission of guilt...I think.

 

[justthinkin]

Tom, I think the killer "knew" the area but he didn't know it...if you get my meaning. It was a DUMB place to leave the bodies, especially considering New Mexico is a great state to hide bodies. And you saw what I was talking about earlier that it is NOT a good area for rabbit hunting. I have found rabbits in that sort of terrain and vegetation but not many.

Quite frankly, McGrew's "suicide" sounds more like an accident to me. In fact, I pulled almost exactly the same stunt with a pistol years ago. I was "dry firing" an empty pistol and talking to a guy on the phone. When we hung up, I reloaded the pistol and put it in my night stand by the bed. Just then the guy called me back. Without thinking, I got the pistol out and started "dry firing" at books in my book case. Talk about DUMB. I shot a hole in a volume of my encyclopedias.:furious:

By the way, the guy on the phone did not know what the noise was. I think something as loud as a gunshot comes across most phones somewhat distorted. And if McGrew had the gun close to his body, it would have been muffled to some extent.

You're very right that the S.O. was a strange place for a suicide. Most want some privacy. And statistically I suspect more people accidentally shoot themselves each year than commit suicide. Even people very familiar with firearms can get careless and shoot themselves. I'm living proof of that.:loser:

Pecos45, you make a good point about McGrew shooting himself as being an accident, but how much of an investigation was there in McGrew's death. I haven't seen any articles that even hint that the shooting may have been accidental. I could've missed that. OTOH, if it was possibly an accident then why was the DA trying to blame these murders on McGrew? He should've been privy to any inside information about McGrew's death. It just sounds like cheap convenience for Cathy to lay blame on McGrew, and I'm wondering why he would try to sully the man's name if indeed the shooting was either accidental or a deliberate act by McGrew because he had what he believed to be a terminal illness.

I'm just not sure I buy that McGrew deliberately shot himself in his office at work. If deliberate, it would make more sense that he was in poor health and feeling bad, and if that was the case, wouldn't he have resigned his duties first or was there a pension involved that his widow would receive?

 

[Pecos45]

I agree, JT. McGrew's death is about the same caliber investigation and Patty and Mattie got. SLOPPY at best.

ECSO back then wasn't known as a repository of brain surgeons and rocket scientists. And I don't know that they have improved much over the years.

They are definitely small town hick law.

 

[justthinkin]

Pecos I couldn't have said it any better....put up or shut.....love it.
According to INvestigator Sillas ....CT hasn't called him back to setup a time to talk with him. Of course...he told Sillas he would like to talk to him the first time they talked on the phone...but when Sillas talked with AB...CT hasn't answered his phone...to setup a meeting with Sillas. Almost an admission of guilt...I think.

Maybe he's been reading here, and is worried. CT not responding to Sillas says to me, all the more reason to talk to the man.

I have no legal background so I don't know, but isn't there some way these people can be required to talk? What would it take?

 

[Sunshine 1950]

Maybe he's been reading here, and is worried. CT not responding to Sillas says to me, all the more reason to talk to the man.

I have no legal background so I don't know, but isn't there some way these people can be required to talk? What would it take?

Yes, why isn't it possible for the investigator to make these people talk. Isn't " probable cause" in here somewhere. I can't believe it. The ECSO just doesn't want to mess with it ...that's all.
Sillas himself told me he hadn't read all the reports in this case...why can't he take it home and read it on his own time...it's because he doesn't give a damn...that's why.

 

[Sunshine 1950]

Maybe he's been reading here, and is worried. CT not responding to Sillas says to me, all the more reason to talk to the man.

I have no legal background so I don't know, but isn't there some way these people can be required to talk? What would it take?

CT isn't calling the investigator backk because he and AB are talking...that's why. He should have called CT first...or he (investigator) should have called AB the day we talked...and not give her time to call CT...these people are working together here...it's about time the ECSO understand that.

 

[Bobbi]

Plus the cop for Texas was on the phone with him when he supposedly killed himself??? Just sounds weird to me. I would have never thought McGrew would have killed himself. Still don't believe it.

I don't believe it either, McGrew was murdered and so was the guy who was killed in the bathroom of the hospital that his wife was in. CT could have heard "a door slam" after the murder and the killer could 've had a 'silencer' on his gun. Now he won't talk because AB told him not to? ECSO should haul them both in and question them separately, LE has a way of making people talk but then again it IS Carlsbad! I believe AB is paying CT off for keeping silent and for finding out info to relay back to her, her mother had alot of money and AB's inheritance wasn't chump change.
JMO

 

[Pecos45]

Bobbi - I think you're trying to see a conspiracy under every rock here. I don't buy this scenario for a minute. Truth is the overwhelming volume of violent crimes are launched out of greed, lust, opportunity etc. I think Patty & Matti were murdered by a simple low-life scumball.

If you think about it, you're suggesting a crime so vast and complex it makes the JFK assassination look like an accidental drive-by shooting. Does anyone REALLY believe these two little girls were the catalyst for a trail of murders, decades of law enforcement cover-up, police corruption and payoffs that have gone on for 48 years?

For what? Why are we still paying off people 48 years after the fact...especially when the likely killer has been dead for over a generation and the ECSO has virtually NOTHING in the way of evidence? Certainly nothing from the crime scene where they need it the most.

If AB is dumb enough to be doing anything whatsoever, she is providing law enforcement with the ONLY clue that might be embarrassing to explain. Get a copy of her bank and phone records. Ditto for CT.

IF by some bizarre chance there is a correlation between these records, then try to drag these people in for a little talk.

ECSO is doing nothing about this case because they have nothing. What little evidence they ever had has been lost, thrown away in a fit of house cleaning zeal, screwed up, chewed into confetti by mice living in the evidence room etc. Sadly ECSO doesn't have the courage to tell Sunshine the truth. So they give her the generic answer of "We are continuing to work all leads that come in." What they don't say is NOTHING has come in during the last 20 years, i.e. they are doing nothing.

Every day across this country cases are lost and thrown out of courts when the law enforcement people have vastly more evidence than this one.

Bottom line is there is certainly no need to leave a trail of additional murders, pay-offs and maintain a cast of people lurking in the shadows with silenced pistols. Such notions stretch logic beyond the breaking point IMHO. Sorry.

 

[Carlsbad Native]

I was asked to clarify one point that has been raised concerning Melton and WDB. In the newspaper photograph as well as in life, Melton was the large man and Blair was the small man. Positively identified by people that knew both.

 

[Legacy]

ECSO is doing nothing about this case because they have nothing. What little evidence they ever had has been lost, thrown away in a fit of house cleaning zeal, screwed up, chewed into confetti by mice living in the evidence room etc. Sadly ECSO doesn't have the courage to tell Sunshine the truth. So they give her the generic answer of "We are continuing to work all leads that come in." What they don't say is NOTHING has come in during the last 20 years, i.e. they are doing nothing.

Pecos45, If only they would "work all leads that come in." I will never believe that it was coincidence that Nichols family held a closely guarded suspicion all those years about his involvement without some real reasons to back it up.

Right now, police in the Florida community where little 7 year old Somer Thompson was murdered are asking for the community to point out those close to them who meet the following criteria:

1. Missed appointments or regular routine the day or night of Somer's disappearance.
2. Unexpectedly left the area under the guise of a plausible excuse: work, family, etc.
3. Exhibited wounds such as bruises, cuts, scratches on the face, arms or legs.
4. Display an unnatural obsession about following details of the case through the media.

Using those same criteria and applying them to the 1961 murders of Mattie and Patty, it has already been stated that Nichols met three of these criteria, possibly all four if further information from the family was obtained.

1. Nichols did not return to his family's house until the morning after the murders. Since he was staying with them, shouldn't he have slept there? Where was he the night of the murders? We know that part of the night of the girls' disappearance, he spent in close proximity to where the girls were at the beach. He saw these particular two girls at the beach according to the family. He saw them from his vantage point of the shadows of the municipal building. It has also been stated that Nichols had some history as a child predator. Case in point, the California incident where he fled after trying to molest the young girl where he worked. What other intentions did he have for this young would-be victim had he been successful in his attempt to gain control over her?
2. Nichols left town unexpectedly when he was supposed to have stayed a week with his family. He "got rid of" the car he had been driving a short time after the murders.
3. Nichols displayed wounds - scratches to his face were mentioned, possibly there were others elsewhere about his body.
4. The obsession with the case we don't know about. However, Nichols statement to his family indicating "something" that was not known about the murders at the time is another alert that he just might have been involved. I have always wondered if the family found newspaper clippings of the murders in his personal belongings or if he incessantly asked about the details of the investigation from his home in Wichita Falls or Big Spring. If so, there is your fourth criteria.

And law enforcement simply chooses to not look at him as a suspect? That shows a certain degree of incompetence in itself. This is a vital lead that needs to be followed through to a conclusion with real police work, not one person or even department (especially this department) in the blink of an eye saying, "Nope, he was too old - wrong color car." To me that confirms nonchalance and laziness in solving this case.

Nichols' family members, from what I have gleaned, are viable members of their community. I imagine they would make quite compelling witnesses as to Nichols' character and history - if given the opportunity. That is where law enforcement often fails. They lose out at the first interview when they distance those who could help, or jump to conclusions without doing their legwork. This they have done to the Nichols family.

I'm not saying Nichols did it. I am saying he needs to be looked at closer, but then again doesn't everyone mentioned here? What differentiates Nichols as a suspect from the others in this case at this particular juncture, is that his family is/was willing to work with police. It is the only current lead at this point (although there are many unresolved leads from the past), so there is no excuse for not devoting time to investigate it. Perhaps by doing so new substantiating information can come to light.