NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #18

[Fairy1]

You know, you guys knew or know Steven Koecher and I don't. I am a totally third party observer and don't know the intricacies to his personality. Please understand I am in no way second guessing anyone here, I am just trying to throw out some ideas. Steven Koecher wouldn't know me anymore then the man on the moon, as I have never met the man.

Also everything I say is based on general principles of psychology and my personal experience working with people and observation. Without going into too much detail my job, it is to read people and make an overall determination based on certain stimuli and information they provide to me. I know that sounds a little vague as I am staying vague on purpose as not to allow my co-workers to indentify who is writing this. It's not that big of a deal, but I just want to keep things professional and not enmesh my personal life with my professional life.

With that being said, everything that I have said is never a hard and fast rule. I am very impressed with all the hard work and astute comments that are being made in this forum.

I am writing this because I am hoping that I am not coming across as arrogant or as a "know-it-all," as I hope I am neither. If I can help I certainly will.

Now having made that disclaimer and I can't fully explain it other then to say it's intuition, I would be shocked to find out that Mr. Koecher commited suicide. With regards to his actions, I have not read anythign that jumps out at me from the screen. Unfortunately job hopping nowadays is common, the multiple applications at his house not filled out may only indicate that he had not gotten around to it.

Laytonian has brought up some valid points and it appears that she is taking many pieces and attempting to put this "puzzle" together. I use the term "puzzle" losely because we are talking about someone's life and it is not a game or hobby.

Something keeps telling me in the back of my mind, that he didn't get lost, he didn't commit suicide, he didn't have an accident, but that somehow he met with someone who did him harm, I am sure of it.

Kelly

Most of us here don't or didn't know Steven personally. We have come to know and care for him through his family, friends and reasearch over past several months.

As I've said before, we all bring our own life experiences to the table. It's what makes us who we are. It's just with all of that, we have to also look at what we've learned about Steven and his own experiences, as best we can, without his personal input. Even with that knowledge, something happened on December 13, 2009 that none of us can understand, or so it seems.

If Steven was the victim of a crime, it's that much more urgent to me to find out what happened.

 

[sbakker]

Most of us here don't or didn't know Steven personally. We have come to know and care for him through his family, friends and reasearch over past several months.

As I've said before, we all bring our own life experiences to the table. It's what makes us who we are. It's just with all of that, we have to also look at what we've learned about Steven and his own experiences, as best we can, without his personal input. Even with that knowledge, something happened on December 13, 2009 that none of us can understand, or so it seems.

If Steven was the victim of a crime, it's that much more urgent to me to find out what happened.

I understand what you are saying. And like you said, we all bring things to the table. so where do we go from here? So i think it was a crime..obviously wouldn't we start with people he knew? You know, we have looked for things on the computor, looked for people he may have conversed with, jobs he was looking for, friends, girlfriends, journal info, etc. i do not think there was anything he was hiding! Someone he knew(my opinion) did something to him. So there was nothing to hide! the person who did harm, was smart enough not toi speak with him on the phone-but did most in person.

What do you think/

 

[Fairy1]

I understand what you are saying. And like you said, we all bring things to the table. so where do we go from here? So i think it was a crime..obviously wouldn't we start with people he knew? You know, we have looked for things on the computor, looked for people he may have conversed with, jobs he was looking for, friends, girlfriends, journal info, etc. i do not think there was anything he was hiding! Someone he knew(my opinion) did something to him. So there was nothing to hide! the person who did harm, was smart enough not toi speak with him on the phone-but did most in person.

What do you think/

If someone did harm him, I'm inclined to agree with you.

 

[sbakker]

I do not have a clue, what St. George law enforcement did about sk's case. I do not have a clue what LV law enforcement did, but they did not do enough, because sk is missing. People in sk's neighborhood were not questioned. People that lived two doors down were not questioned, did not even know he was missing. I lived just a few blocks from where sk lived for years so i know alot of people in his neighborhood. My daughter and her family live a few bloicks from where sk lived. They shared the same church building. She did not know about it until I told her! Her husband was told about it at church at achurch meeting! my daughter knew sk's siblings in the County he is from. Nobody stepped up! Was there hasrd questioning in sk's boss? Was there hard questioning in his few friends? Neighbors? Church co-workers? how about his church friend who was visiting friends in lv at the same time sk was there(still amazes me)? Were those friends pressed, questioned? I don't know, but i have a good idea. Its a little late. months have gone by. SK's case just is..... I am so mad, cannot say more.

God Bless sk and his family. And hopefully someone will come forth.

 

[laytonian]

I understand what you are saying. And like you said, we all bring things to the table. so where do we go from here? So i think it was a crime..obviously wouldn't we start with people he knew? You know, we have looked for things on the computor, looked for people he may have conversed with, jobs he was looking for, friends, girlfriends, journal info, etc. i do not think there was anything he was hiding! Someone he knew(my opinion) did something to him. So there was nothing to hide! the person who did harm, was smart enough not toi speak with him on the phone-but did most in person.

What do you think/

If a crime is involved: someone he knew referred him to a bad deal.

It may be a church official, a friend, a church acquaintance, a housemate, a landlord, a boss or a relative.
They may not even have known what they were sending him into, which makes it even harder to detect.
They may have just made a suggestion to an impressionable, overly-trusting man.

And when they did realize what happened, they' covered their own butt -- and are still doing so.

But crime isn't at the top of my list; as I've reviewed this today, I remembered how sad his life had become.

 

[sbakker]

Laytonian, I am so glad you brought up about his life. I take so many things for granted. You never know what is going on in someones life. Life is so precious, and sometimes we do not take the time to invite someone somewhere, or compliment them, or just call and say "hi". We have got to know sk, and when you see his pics, his smile, showing up for functions, wanting a girlfriend,loved his family, buying gifts for his little nephews and neices. He wanted what we all want-not to be lonely, share his life with a wife. Sometimes it takes something like this ,for us to realize everybody is important .

 

[Fairy1]

If a crime is involved: someone he knew referred him to a bad deal.

It may be a church official, a friend, a church acquaintance, a housemate, a landlord, a boss or a relative.
They may not even have known what they were sending him into, which makes it even harder to detect.
They may have just made a suggestion to an impressionable, overly-trusting man.

And when they did realize what happened, they' covered their own butt -- and are still doing so.

But crime isn't at the top of my list; as I've reviewed this today, I remembered how sad his life had become.

You are right, laytonian. So very sad. And having just turned 30 may very well have been a huge trigger for Steven. I think whatever led him to Las Vegas was the result of a poor decision.

 

[Kelly_Robinson]

All I can think is that from what I know about Mr. Koecher and his actions and my understanding of suicide and depression, suicide would not be consistent with his behavior. Many years ago I taught psychology at a psychiatric clinic in Santa Ana California-actually more of a class on rational emotive therapy or cognitive behavior therapy. Some of the people who attended class were simply normal people who were wanting to learn rational emotive therapy and others were clearly neurotic and depressed. I really tried to keep an eye on anyone who I really felt maybe depressed who maybe a danger to themselves. The people who I spoke to who I thought were serious about suicide and not just trying to get attention, almost always held a view of life which was what I would characterize as nihilistic, completely absent of any hope and were not making any plans for the future at all.

My friend whose brother comitted suicide two weeks ago was clearly bipolar and off his medication. He had no hope and that he was a financial burden to his family.

Another man who I was aware of who committed suicide was a Los Angeles police officer in 1991, who shot himself. He was going through a horrendus divorce was being hounded by bill collectors and after a stand off on top of a building shot himself. Another man I worked with in 1979 who was a recovering alcoholic, fell off the wagon, lost his job and was very intoxicated when he shot himself after another long standoff with police. Two friends from high school both with the first name of Steve committed suicide, in both cases they were going through divorces. Steve M. had talked about suicide over the course of many years and Steve D. was very depressed that his wife left him. In both cases they notified people just before they killed themselves. One Steve called his ex-wife and when she answered the phone, shot himself, and the other Steve called his mother in law and then when she answered the phone shot himself.

One final thing, every man who I know who committed suicide used a firearm, with the exception of a man named Michael who hung himself in his closet. With the exception of my friend's brother all of these men were depressed over a broken relationship (Their wives left them or girlfriend dumped them).

One thing I will say though Laytonian in that your observation about Steven Koecher being sad, may have contributed to the people that he was associating with. People who are blue or depressed do tend to seek out lower companionship. This may have lead Mr. Koecher to meet someone who did not have his best interest in mind. That sounds more feasable to me then suicide.

But I will always say I very well maybe completely wrong and it certainly would not be the first and won't be the last.

Kelly

 

[Kelly_Robinson]

One other person I knew who committed suicide and i will list her name because it was in the paper and very public at the time. Her name was Ann Pynchon and went to the same high school that I went to in Orange County California. Ann committed suicide in 1976 in what the newspaper said was a drug induced state. She was in a psychiatric ward and jumped off the top of the building. I knew Ann fairly well. She was very pretty, very smart, graduated from high school early a home coming queen, but got involved with drugs. Ann grew up in a very religious home (Christian Science) and almost died in her senior year due to the fact that her parents refused her medical treatment. She rejected her family's religion when she graduated and used illicit street drugs, went into a psychiatric facility and jumped off the building while in the hospital.

 

[CONCRNED CTZN]

Laytonian, I am so glad you brought up about his life. I take so many things for granted. You never know what is going on in someones life. Life is so precious, and sometimes we do not take the time to invite someone somewhere, or compliment them, or just call and say "hi". We have got to know sk, and when you see his pics, his smile, showing up for functions, wanting a girlfriend,loved his family, buying gifts for his little nephews and neices. He wanted what we all want-not to be lonely, share his life with a wife. Sometimes it takes something like this ,for us to realize everybody is important .

On that note...I agree you never know. Now in my thirties I am a happily married, lds, mother of two with a successful career. Ten years ago I moved away from my parents, attended college, worked full-time, and partied HARD. My parents and for the most part, my co-workers, had no idea. I often think of how lucky I was to come make it home some nights...alive and not sexually scared. My parents would have been mortified to find me in some of places I was frequenting, let alone at the houses of the people I was going home with. My lds friends all chose to get married and have children, and my cards didn't fall that way. No one knew about my "other life", and most people still don't and won't. My parents and siblings all live in the same town and they never knew ANYTHING.

I know I've mentioned this before, but it was probably in the first threads.

I agree, no matter what everything thought about SK, that it is only what he allowed them to think based on what he told them. Maybe there was no girlfriend, or maybe it was because he liked boys, or maybe he hated interviewing, maybe he wasn't delivery fliers when he found those girls and someone is hiding the real reason he was in the area - maybe he found the girls when he was walking to his car from... again parking "away" from his real destination. I agree with the latest statements that someone else knows something...innocently enough, but won't tell as to "out" themselves. I think these "others" are part of phone records, etc.

For now, we just keep talking and pray that something we say resonates with someone who has the power or ability to do something with the
ideas we put out there.

 

[carbuff]

On that note...I agree you never know. Now in my thirties I am a happily married, lds, mother of two with a successful career. Ten years ago I moved away from my parents, attended college, worked full-time, and partied HARD. My parents and for the most part, my co-workers, had no idea. I often think of how lucky I was to come make it home some nights...alive and not sexually scared. My parents would have been mortified to find me in some of places I was frequenting, let alone at the houses of the people I was going home with. My lds friends all chose to get married and have children, and my cards didn't fall that way. No one knew about my "other life", and most people still don't and won't. My parents and siblings all live in the same town and they never knew ANYTHING.

I know I've mentioned this before, but it was probably in the first threads.

I agree, no matter what everything thought about SK, that it is only what he allowed them to think based on what he told them. Maybe there was no girlfriend, or maybe it was because he liked boys, or maybe he hated interviewing, maybe he wasn't delivery fliers when he found those girls and someone is hiding the real reason he was in the area - maybe he found the girls when he was walking to his car from... again parking "away" from his real destination. I agree with the latest statements that someone else knows something...innocently enough, but won't tell as to "out" themselves. I think these "others" are part of phone records, etc.

For now, we just keep talking and pray that something we say resonates with someone who has the power or ability to do something with the
ideas we put out there.

That's a good point. I don't live a particularly wild lifestyle, nor try to keep things hidden from my parents, but I live quite a distance away from them, and if I disappeared, they would be the people least likely to know anything about my schedule, my contacts, my friends, my activities, or my online life. They wouldn't recognize the significance of my friends list in chat, or know who I talked to there. They wouldn't know the people I talk to regularly when I hang out at the local coffee shop. They might be able to figure out which forums I visit regularly, but not without expert help, especially if I cleared my history and cache before I left.

We don't leave as much trace in the world as we like to think we do...

 

[laytonian]

Laytonian, I am so glad you brought up about his life. I take so many things for granted. You never know what is going on in someones life. Life is so precious, and sometimes we do not take the time to invite someone somewhere, or compliment them, or just call and say "hi". We have got to know sk, and when you see his pics, his smile, showing up for functions, wanting a girlfriend,loved his family, buying gifts for his little nephews and neices. He wanted what we all want-not to be lonely, share his life with a wife. Sometimes it takes something like this ,for us to realize everybody is important .

Maybe it's easier for us (a group with varied life experienced), looking in from the outside, to see warning signals? Or suspect things that have been rejected?

Steven's birthday is Monday.
I want nothing more than for him to walk through his mother's door, and say "Sorry, Mom".
Then, all we need to know is "He's OK".

But I also have fear that it won't work out that way.

 

[laytonian]

On that note...I agree you never know. Now in my thirties I am a happily married, lds, mother of two with a successful career. Ten years ago I moved away from my parents, attended college, worked full-time, and partied HARD. My parents and for the most part, my co-workers, had no idea. I often think of how lucky I was to come make it home some nights...alive and not sexually scared. My parents would have been mortified to find me in some of places I was frequenting, let alone at the houses of the people I was going home with. My lds friends all chose to get married and have children, and my cards didn't fall that way. No one knew about my "other life", and most people still don't and won't. My parents and siblings all live in the same town and they never knew ANYTHING.

I know I've mentioned this before, but it was probably in the first threads.

I agree, no matter what everything thought about SK, that it is only what he allowed them to think based on what he told them. Maybe there was no girlfriend, or maybe it was because he liked boys, or maybe he hated interviewing, maybe he wasn't delivery fliers when he found those girls and someone is hiding the real reason he was in the area - maybe he found the girls when he was walking to his car from... again parking "away" from his real destination. I agree with the latest statements that someone else knows something...innocently enough, but won't tell as to "out" themselves. I think these "others" are part of phone records, etc.

For now, we just keep talking and pray that something we say resonates with someone who has the power or ability to do something with the
ideas we put out there.

I come from a large family, and each of us had our "moments".

But in OUR family, our parents went through it with us.
I find it sad, though, that some young people going through pain, can't reveal to those who love them the most, what they're going through.

Does any of us really know anyone who's been perfect, while growing up into adulthood?
I don't.

But I know many families whose wagons are circled so closely, a mother may know what a father does not (and vice versa).

 

[SugarJames]

I have looked at the possiblility that An was the real reason for his trip to Ruby based on information presented...but never could find "any good Reason" he would do something like that at that time, considering the weather and his so called finaicial straits. I still believe that Steven went missing starting with that trip, believe the answers to his dissapearence are in the timeline of those events. I am a romantic for sure...but in looking for answers/connections I find his leaving the party on the 7th(about the time SCP story hit the national news) His comments about Sacramento, A bus from Sac in Wendover at the same approx time he was there...a stop in the SLC area during the approx time of a vigil for SCP, and comments from F+F Fb page dissussion form"susans own words" about being ready, and the comments from the JP web page about her decline in testiment to be something overlooked. Now that's romantic.

 

[laytonian]

You are right, laytonian. So very sad. And having just turned 30 may very well have been a huge trigger for Steven. I think whatever led him to Las Vegas was the result of a poor decision.

I think the birth of DK's son (three weeks before he disappeared) may have been an even bigger trigger.

Especially if he was teased about not being married, and thus not started his family yet.

 

[SugarJames]

I have looked at the possiblility that An was the real reason for his trip to Ruby based on information presented...but never could find "any good Reason" he would do something like that at that time, considering the weather and his so called finaicial straits. I still believe that Steven went missing starting with that trip, believe the answers to his dissapearence are in the timeline of those events. I am a romantic for sure...but in looking for answers/connections I find his leaving the party on the 7th(about the time SCP story hit the national news) His comments about Sacramento, A bus from Sac in Wendover at the same approx time he was there...a stop in the SLC area during the approx time of a vigil for SCP, and comments from F+F Fb page dissussion form"susans own words" about being ready, and the comments from the JP web page about her decline in testiment to be something overlooked. Now that's romantic.

everything I have learned about Steven tells me he is a very intelligent and capabile person. Who has been hoping and praying...however now he is taking into action who "HE" is (thats all the good and bad) not what people think he is or should or should not be....and to pardon the pun or poor poetry "Be all he can be"

 

[laytonian]

I have looked at the possiblility that An was the real reason for his trip to Ruby based on information presented...but never could find "any good Reason" he would do something like that at that time, considering the weather and his so called finaicial straits. I still believe that Steven went missing starting with that trip, believe the answers to his dissapearence are in the timeline of those events. I am a romantic for sure...but in looking for answers/connections I find his leaving the party on the 7th(about the time SCP story hit the national news) His comments about Sacramento, A bus from Sac in Wendover at the same approx time he was there...a stop in the SLC area during the approx time of a vigil for SCP, and comments from F+F Fb page dissussion form"susans own words" about being ready, and the comments from the JP web page about her decline in testiment to be something overlooked. Now that's romantic.

That's an interesting theory.

Can you provide links (website URLs) to reputable sources that confirm:

1 - The West Wendover, NV bus schedule you refer to.

2 - The date, time and location the SCP vigil you refer to, was held?

3 - The statements made on various FB pages you refer to (not the statements themselves, just links to the websites those statements are found on).

4 - That Steven made "comments [plural] about Sacramento".

If there is a detailed timeline (ie, times, just not dates) for the SCP case that we could use, please refer us to it.

thanks!

 

[Kelly_Robinson]

One of the reasons that I thought about the idea that Steven met someone at one of those houses is because my spouse works in an over 55 community as the activity director. She told me that it is very common for the residents to leave for the weekend and leave a key with a younger relative like a grandson or son, to spend the weekend at the house. At the community which my spouse works at if the resident is leaving for the weekend and allowing a relative or friend to stay in the house, they are suppose to get permission from the community office, however many times they don't do that.

Security is suppose to be made aware that the resident is away and that someone else is going to use the resident's home and spend the weekend. My spouse told me that many times security would find out that a younger person was staying in a particular house over the weekend and had a key and that security or the office was not notified. There was a time or two where there were friends over making noise where the police had to be called.

So if Steven went to one of the houses on one of the surroungding streets, and the actual resident was gone for the weekend and there was a younger relative staying in a house with a key, Steven may have been there without anyone knowing. The fact that nobody knows who Steven is in that neighborhood or saw him would be consistent with this scenario.

I wonder if there is anyway to find out through the HOA or security who was going that weekend.

Kelly

 

[Paulette]

Kelly, why would he leave his car by the mail boxes if he were house sitting?

I've never understood why he left the car there. Double driveways & street parking. It's almost like he was saying "I don't want to be a bother."

 

[Fairy1]

One of the reasons that I thought about the idea that Steven met someone at one of those houses is because my spouse works in an over 55 community as the activity director. She told me that it is very common for the residents to leave for the weekend and leave a key with a younger relative like a grandson or son, to spend the weekend at the house. At the community which my spouse works at if the resident is leaving for the weekend and allowing a relative or friend to stay in the house, they are suppose to get permission from the community office, however many times they don't do that.

Security is suppose to be made aware that the resident is away and that someone else is going to use the resident's home and spend the weekend. My spouse told me that many times security would find out that a younger person was staying in a particular house over the weekend and had a key and that security or the office was not notified. There was a time or two where there were friends over making noise where the police had to be called.

So if Steven went to one of the houses on one of the surroungding streets, and the actual resident was gone for the weekend and there was a younger relative staying in a house with a key, Steven may have been there without anyone knowing. The fact that nobody knows who Steven is in that neighborhood or saw him would be consistent with this scenario.

I wonder if there is anyway to find out through the HOA or security who was going that weekend.

Kelly

It's possible - but I don't believe the HOA would know. They're not quite THAT controlling. But a neighbor might have known. One of our (elderly) next door neighbors always lets us know when she's going to be gone. The other wouldn't give us the time of day.