NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - # 7

[laytonian]

I don't understand changing this info upon speculation and what if's.....we don't have facts. Even the bank receipts can't truly verifiy the dates and times w/o further details from the EFT reports from the bank. Originally the 8th, then the 9th, and now the 10th. Boy, if I were LE, this would be a neon red flag. JMO

A neon red flag against who?

US, for using an additional piece of information (A FACT) to put things in logical order?

 

[laytonian]

The seriousness of a relationship sometimes varies wildly depending which half of the relationship you talk to. Is it possible that when AN and SK dated, he thought it was more serious than she did? Maybe he even fudged when talking to his friend in Texas about being the one to end the relationship--as kind of a way of saving face with his already-married, seemingly-successful friend.

I think he went to see if AN was interested in starting the relationship up again. Either he was told that she was dating someone else (Is she? Does anyone know?) or he was despondent by the fact that she wasn't home. Maybe that was the final straw in a long line of personal failures, and it was just too much for him to handle.

I really hope I'm wrong.

It's interesting that it also (evidently) took place after he participated in a "sealings" ceremony, which according to LDS beliefs, means parents and their entire families will be sealed together for all time and eternity.
Maybe turning 30, still not being sealed to a life partner, and his job situation, just got to him?

I'm just hoping that he had left much earlier (after temple on the 9th), drove further west in Northern Nevada, and the Ruby Valley stop was a spur of the moment thing.

BUT...we have two major gas purchases. One each direction. We can switch the two SLC C-store stops, but unless we get date/time information, they're interchangeable. Taco Time paper receipt has a date/time. Driving further means using more gas ... and there's no evidence of stops further west on I-80 than Wendover/Ruby Valley.

 

[Malini2001]

On the timeline at 7:57AM on the 13th it says "Webb says he's enroute to St George himself, so will cover it himself."

But yet at the 10:15AM "Webb hasn't yet arrived at the PEC meeting" According to travel times..

if he was already in route Shouldn't he have been there..

Also.. Why call Steven to replace him at a meeting that he is on his way to? I don't call in replacements for a meeting I am on my way to. Do you??

It could mean that Webb was on his way back, but maybe didn't plan on attending the meeting - maybe he thought it was cutting it too close time-wise or maybe he wasn't properly dressed for the meeting. So he called Steven, thinking if Steven was going to make the meeting, maybe Webb wouldn't make the push to attend.

But why didn't Webb show at the meeting? We will probably never know. Could be a perfectly innocent explanation. Then again the whole conversation could be a cover for something else.:waitasec:

 

[laytonian]

It could mean that Webb was on his way back, but maybe didn't plan on attending the meeting - maybe he thought it was cutting it too close time-wise or maybe he wasn't properly dressed for the meeting. So he called Steven, thinking if Steven was going to make the meeting, maybe Webb wouldn't make the push to attend.

But why didn't Webb show at the meeting? We will probably never know. Could be a perfectly innocent explanation. Then again the whole conversation could be a cover for something else.:waitasec:

And "on his way" could mean anything. Woke up late, looked at his cellphone and forgot that Las Vegas was on PST. Could have been "in Vegas"....and actually further out, driving back.

We don't know he didn't show. We just know he wasn't there by 11:10.

 

[hollyblue]

A neon red flag against who?

US, for using an additional piece of information (A FACT) to put things in logical order?

Not against who, but just the fact that this issue keeps changing; and the speculation of the 10th--changed without verification. If I were LE wanting to make a touchdown in this case and getting nowhere, I'd be looking at what interference was taking place. You can't just put things in order the way you "think" they happened because you don't have the facts according to the bank receipts.

I'm sure LE has a much different timeline than we have, because they would have the bank info; if the Koecher's allowed them to view it.

I know you put a lot of time in it, and we all appreciate that
but I thought we were talking facts here, which we don't have much of.

 

[RubyRed]

And "on his way" could mean anything. Woke up late, looked at his cellphone and forgot that Las Vegas was on PST. Could have been "in Vegas"....and actually further out, driving back.

We don't know he didn't show. We just know he wasn't there by 11:10.

bbm I don't get why it is such a secret. I think if he was there we would be hearing, yes he was there . If he wasn't there then we hear nothing. So in my opinion until I hear otherwise, I think the silence means no.

 

[Malini2001]

Not against who, but just the fact that this issue keeps changing; and the speculation of the 10th--changed without verification. If I were LE wanting to make a touchdown in this case and getting nowhere, I'd be looking at what interference was taking place. You can't just put things in order the way you "think" they happened because you don't have the facts according to the bank receipts.

I'm sure LE has a much different timeline than we have, because they would have the bank info; if the Koecher's allowed them to view it.

I know you put a lot of time in it, and we all appreciate that
but I thought we were talking facts here, which we don't have much of.

The fact we know is that Steven stopped at Ruby Valley. What we don't know, owing to people's memories, is when he stopped. The 9th conflicts with facts we have verified from more than 1 source.

The facts have to be put together like a puzzle. If the family would share the specifics of the purchases, we could be more sure of where they fit. But they apparently don't choose to share the verified dates, so we are left to speculate and see where things fit best.:banghead:

 

[laytonian]

The fact we know is that Steven stopped at Ruby Valley. What we don't know, owing to people's memories, is when he stopped. The 9th conflicts with facts we have verified from more than 1 source.

The facts have to be put together like a puzzle. If the family would share the specifics of the purchases, we could be more sure of where they fit. But they apparently don't choose to share the verified dates, so we are left to speculate and see where things fit best.:banghead:

That's exactly right. The (confirmed by three people) temple night was a 4" square puzzle piece, and we only had a 2" square hole. Shoving it into place threw all the other pieces into disarray.

LATO started trying to fit the pieces in...and proposed HERE that we look at the 10th for Ruby Valley....and that's when the big piece fit into the puzzle.

 

[laytonian]

[/B]

bbm I don't get why it is such a secret. I think if he was there we would be hearing, yes he was there . If he wasn't there then we hear nothing. So in my opinion until I hear otherwise, I think the silence means no.

I think there's another reason: we're talking about what went on during a meeting of LDS Priesthood members. It's not so much a secret, as it is considered a sacred duty. As I've mentioned before, my uncle was an LDS Bishop, and even when he was late to a family function because of a late-running Priesthood meeting, he could not tell us why.

We were given information about what went on, trying to bring the meeting together ... but I doubt that the meeting itself is open to public record. Ever.

 

[My6]

Investigations are not all 100% fact based.

You have to use speculations of people to figure out the twists and turns of all the missing things that make don't make any sense to find the truth.

That is when you find the 100% Facts... IMO

 

[RubyRed]

I think there's another reason: we're talking about what went on during a meeting of LDS Priesthood members. It's not so much a secret, as it is considered a sacred duty. As I've mentioned before, my uncle was an LDS Bishop, and even when he was late to a family function because of a late-running Priesthood meeting, he could not tell us why.

We were given information about what went on, trying to bring the meeting together ... but I doubt that the meeting itself is open to public record. Ever.

I hope the police have the answer to if he was there or not. I don't really care if it was sacred, that does not make them above the law. I have difficulties with secrets in religion, but that is a whole different can of worms, moo

 

[My6]

I think there's another reason: we're talking about what went on during a meeting of LDS Priesthood members. It's not so much a secret, as it is considered a sacred duty. As I've mentioned before, my uncle was an LDS Bishop, and even when he was late to a family function because of a late-running Priesthood meeting, he could not tell us why.

We were given information about what went on, trying to bring the meeting together ... but I doubt that the meeting itself is open to public record. Ever.

You are correct, but there is absolutely no reason at all why they can't verify that he was not in attendance, unless, he really was not there .. Which I agree, until I hear he was... I say He wasn't!

 

[RubyRed]

I mean no disrespect to the church, however, someone is missing. That someone is Steven Koecher. Earth to the people, why can't a simple question be answered? It just seems burying their heads in the sand is not going to make it go away.If my son was missing I wouldn't care what dirty laundry came out, I would want to find the answer to what happened. If someone was keeping secrets, and I wouldn't give a damn to their reason, I would consider them a suspect. moo

 

[carbuff]

Not against who, but just the fact that this issue keeps changing; and the speculation of the 10th--changed without verification. If I were LE wanting to make a touchdown in this case and getting nowhere, I'd be looking at what interference was taking place. You can't just put things in order the way you "think" they happened because you don't have the facts according to the bank receipts.

I'm sure LE has a much different timeline than we have, because they would have the bank info; if the Koecher's allowed them to view it.

I know you put a lot of time in it, and we all appreciate that
but I thought we were talking facts here, which we don't have much of.

bbm

There might not be much more information. Transactions at places like fast food joints and gas stations don't always contain the time of the actual purchase, just the time the company sent it to the bank. Sometimes they do, but often the purchase gets relayed to the company headquarters and they all get sent in together (also known as "batch processing"). Depending on the company and the software, they might or might not include transaction details.

 

[laytonian]

bbm

There might not be much more information. Transactions at places like fast food joints and gas stations don't always contain the time of the actual purchase, just the time the company sent it to the bank. Sometimes they do, but often the purchase gets relayed to the company headquarters and they all get sent in together (also known as "batch processing"). Depending on the company and the software, they might or might not include transaction details.

For legal reasons (ie, credit card fraud, for instance) they can be traced back. I don't know how much work it is for a bank employee, but you'd think that a call by the card owner to the credit card company, would quickly reveal the "proof" of that information. Of course, that depends if there's a co-owner on the credit card. But I'd bet LE could get it, and may already have it (IF they believe there's reason to).

 

[Canyon1]

It's interesting that it also (evidently) took place after he participated in a "sealings" ceremony, which according to LDS beliefs, means parents and their entire families will be sealed together for all time and eternity.
Maybe turning 30, still not being sealed to a life partner, and his job situation, just got to him?

I'm just hoping that he had left much earlier (after temple on the 9th), drove further west in Northern Nevada, and the Ruby Valley stop was a spur of the moment thing.

BUT...we have two major gas purchases. One each direction. We can switch the two SLC C-store stops, but unless we get date/time information, they're interchangeable. Taco Time paper receipt has a date/time. Driving further means using more gas ... and there's no evidence of stops further west on I-80 than Wendover/Ruby Valley.

There's definitely plenty of time for introspection and thinking about things eternal no matter what ordinance you're doing in the temple. It's quite possible he was in a funk after the 9th. I dunno, the whole trip seems kind of spur of the moment--like he was looking for something without really knowing what he was going to do next.

One thing to note regarding cc gas purchases: If they are run as a credit purchase even when a debit card is used, they may not be posted to his account for days. Most pay-at-the-pump gas places don't ask for a pin and are run as a credit transaction. Debit transactions where you enter your pin are posted at the end of that business day. So the date of the posting is not necessarily the date of the transaction.

 

[laytonian]

There's definitely plenty of time for introspection and thinking about things eternal no matter what ordinance you're doing in the temple. It's quite possible he was in a funk after the 9th. I dunno, the whole trip seems kind of spur of the moment--like he was looking for something without really knowing what he was going to do next.

One thing to note regarding cc gas purchases: If they are run as a credit purchase even when a debit card is used, they may not be posted to his account for days. Most pay-at-the-pump gas places don't ask for a pin and are run as a credit transaction. Debit transactions where you enter your pin are posted at the end of that business day. So the date of the posting is not necessarily the date of the transaction.

True. Where did anyone say otherwise?

We've got three data nails for the 9th and 10th:

Dec 9th=============
NAIL:
Three confirmed sightings on temple night

Dec 10th============
NAIL:
$30+ gas purchase in Springville UT (dated CC paper receipt found in car)
NAIL:
Taco Time dated/timed receipt, Nephi UT (paper cash receipt found in car)

TO ALL:
Where would YOU place the three remaining purchases shown on the bank statement?
The "date posted" details are clearly shown on the "receipts" page
SLC Tesoro
SLC Maverik
Wendover, NV Pilot Station $30+

 

[hollyblue]

Wonder if Steven could have been involved in something like this for socialization:
http://www.meetup.com/cities/us/nv/henderson/lists/?radius=25.0

 

[carbuff]

For legal reasons (ie, credit card fraud, for instance) they can be traced back. I don't know how much work it is for a bank employee, but you'd think that a call by the card owner to the credit card company, would quickly reveal the "proof" of that information. Of course, that depends if there's a co-owner on the credit card. But I'd bet LE could get it, and may already have it (IF they believe there's reason to).

The bank normally won't do it. They refer you to the credit card company. But even then, some purchases don't trace back beyond the corporate processing center. We found this out a couple of years ago when we had to deal with some questionable purchases. The company where the purchase was made didn't care whether the transaction was fraudulent; it was cheaper for them to write it off than to track it down. I'm there, "I don't know whether that was us or not. I don't have enough information to recognize it," and the helpful lady on the other end said, "That's fine, we'll cancel it and refund to your card."

I don't know whether they would have the ability to track down to further detail under subpoena or search warrant. They must. But I don't know whether they'd do it for what's basically a fishing expedition.

 

[carbuff]

Question for the family: did Steven golf?