NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - # 9

[laytonian]

Yes, like a recording studio or a rehearsal room. Hmmmm.

The ONLY reason I shy away from this theory is because I'm pretty sure Steven wouldn't be the only victim of someone who went to such great lengths to hide what they were doing. Now, if they can tie any other missing people to SCA somehow, that would be worth looking into.

I really have to wonder if they've even tried....

Carbuff and I spent about a week trying -- and DID come up with one: the guy, about two miles away in SCA, whose wife saw him walk out the door and get into a car.

If anyone wants to read about it, scroll down to the bottom of the timeline page - and click on "similar cases".

Carbuff did a LOT of good research there!

 

[SuziQ]

Sorry to all my fellow WebSleuthers! I will not mention others that were at the search.

Nah, it's me. I keep bringing up Appalled. Sorry Hoppy!

 

[Fairy1]

Carbuff and I spent about a week trying -- and DID come up with one: the guy, about two miles away in SCA, whose wife saw him walk out the door and get into a car.

If anyone wants to read about it, scroll down to the bottom of the timeline page - and click on "similar cases".

Carbuff did a LOT of good research there!

True, but IIRC, that guy was much older than Steven and married, right?

This is a creepy way to think, but here goes. There are hundreds if not thousands of young people on the streets here - destitute and alone. It wouldn't be much of a challenge to drive around and pick one up any time of the day or night, if one were so inclined. So why "lure" a young, religious man from another state? And how? If Steven was led to SCA by someone in St. George, then we have a tag-team. Maybe we SHOULD be looking at other missing peeps (guys) from that area instead of this area.

I wonder if all the Lost Boys are accounted for...

 

[Sin City]

Regarding the search: I had been searching for signs of animals, and thought I would find more evidence of animal life, if there had been a body in the area. So Sorry, not an easy thing to write, and no disrespect intended.

I saw one bird, a glimpse of a ground hog (maybe) going into a hole, lizards, ants, and flies. I heard that a snake had been found also.

 

[laytonian]

Regarding the search: I had been searching for signs of animals, and thought I would find more evidence of animal life, if there had been a body in the area. So Sorry, not an easy thing to write, and no disrespect intended.

I saw one bird, a glimpse of a ground hog (maybe) going into a hole, lizards, ants, and flies. I heard that a snake had been found also.

Sounds like you were in my back yard.

It's definitely not an easy thing to write, but we have to be descriptive. I think Fairy1 had a good point when she mentioned looking for the large bones. As carbuff told us, these would be considered "new bones", dark and least degraded. Only the small, fine bones would have been broken within this time period, unless stepped on.
But all the bones could have been carried all directions, if out there.

We hope he's not.

 

[laytonian]

True, but IIRC, that guy was much older than Steven and married, right?

This is a creepy way to think, but here goes. There are hundreds if not thousands of young people on the streets here - destitute and alone. It wouldn't be much of a challenge to drive around and pick one up any time of the day or night, if one were so inclined. So why "lure" a young, religious man from another state? And how? If Steven was led to SCA by someone in St. George, then we have a tag-team. Maybe we SHOULD be looking at other missing peeps (guys) from that area instead of this area.

I wonder if all the Lost Boys are accounted for...

They should be called The Found Boys, because that's actually what happened. They were dropped off on the streets of several towns and cities, without anyone (outside the Colorado City/Hildale area) knowing they even existed. There's not even birth records out there, just confusing journals with coded information.

But you make an excellent point. Why "import" someone, anyway?

It's almost like someone was writing a book, and wanted to see if they could really make someone disappear.

The other man who disappeared from SCA was 48. Older than Steven, but only a year before, two miles away, last seen in broad daylight getting into a car. If we suspect Steven was meeting someone there who'd take him away in a car, isn't that how it would have happened?

Here's the Utah Missing Persons List[/B]. Note that Steven's listed on it, even though he was last seen in Nevada.
Michael Guy Johnson is the guy suspected to be buried under concrete at the steel plant.
Jason Wayne Dennis, reported suicidal, seems to be the only St George missing person of any age near Steven's.

 

[Fairy1]

Regarding the search: I had been searching for signs of animals, and thought I would find more evidence of animal life, if there had been a body in the area. So Sorry, not an easy thing to write, and no disrespect intended.

I saw one bird, a glimpse of a ground hog (maybe) going into a hole, lizards, ants, and flies. I heard that a snake had been found also.

It isn't easy to write. But we were doing what we were told to do and like Laytonian advised me the night before, be "clinical." I tried.

See, all I saw were lizards - live ones. I did see a lot of snake holes but, fortunately, no snakes. But fasteddy4 said there are a lot of coyotes out there too.

Someone earlier mentioned that if there had been a body - above ground - out there, surely the birds would have been circling at some point. I should like to think someone would have noticed. But then, someone else mentioned how un-observant people are these days, so I guess not.

I'm sorry, but I saw a LOT of potential burial sites. I don't know if they'll be checked out, but I hope so. If it's seriously believed that Steven is out there somewhere, I wish LE would get involved.

 

[laytonian]

It isn't easy to write. But we were doing what we were told to do and like Laytonian advised me the night before, be "clinical." I tried.

See, all I saw were lizards - live ones. I did see a lot of snake holes but, fortunately, no snakes. But fasteddy4 said there are a lot of coyotes out there too.

Someone earlier mentioned that if there had been a body - above ground - out there, surely the birds would have been circling at some point. I should like to think someone would have noticed. But then, someone else mentioned how un-observant people are these days, so I guess not.

I'm sorry, but I saw a LOT of potential burial sites. I don't know if they'll be checked out, but I hope so. If it's seriously believed that Steven is out there somewhere, I wish LE would get involved.

The thing is, that soil's rocky in most places. It'd be hard to dig a hole big enough for an adult body .... and do it quickly, in the dark, while no one's watching.

Frankly, I'd be sending divers down into the ponds -- or dragging them.

 

[Fairy1]

They should be called The Found Boys, because that's actually what happened. They were dropped off on the streets of several towns and cities, without anyone (outside the Colorado City/Hildale area) knowing they even existed. There's not even birth records out there, just confusing journals with coded information.

But you make an excellent point. Why "import" someone, anyway?

It's almost like someone was writing a book, and wanted to see if they could really make someone disappear.

The other man who disappeared from SCA was 48. Older than Steven, but only a year before, two miles away, last seen in broad daylight getting into a car. If we suspect Steven was meeting someone there who'd take him away in a car, isn't that how it would have happened?

Here's the Utah Missing Persons List[/b]. Note that Steven's listed on it, even though he was last seen in Nevada.
Michael Guy Johnson is the guy suspected to be buried under concrete at the steel plant.
Jason Wayne Dennis, reported suicidal, seems to be the only St George missing person of any age near Steven's.

I seem to recall reading a story a while back that a lot of the Lost Boys have wound up in St. George. In your opinion, do you think they're well-tracked at this point? Once they are "of age?" I have no idea, but I do hope so. My heart goes out to them. IIRC, there is a pending lawsuit filed on their behalf, so hopefully, the state is on top of it. Still, I'm sure a good many of them have fallen through the cracks over the years. They were ill-equipped to live in any world outside of the FLDS. :furious:

I just wonder if they went missing, would anyone know or bother to report it?

 

[hollyblue]

True, but IIRC, that guy was much older than Steven and married, right?

This is a creepy way to think, but here goes. There are hundreds if not thousands of young people on the streets here - destitute and alone. It wouldn't be much of a challenge to drive around and pick one up any time of the day or night, if one were so inclined. So why "lure" a young, religious man from another state? And how? If Steven was led to SCA by someone in St. George, then we have a tag-team. Maybe we SHOULD be looking at other missing peeps (guys) from that area instead of this area.

I wonder if all the Lost Boys are accounted for...

You know, it could be someone that met or knew Steven and became "smitten"--M or F---that had relatives there or just familiar with the area. Look at the case of the 19 yo girl who was just accosted with a stun gun and hand cuffs by her home teacher. (why I of thought of SK being stunned) The guy tried to get her to open a box in a basement (2x5x3), when she did--that's when he stunned her, etc.

 

[hollyblue]

It isn't easy to write. But we were doing what we were told to do and like Laytonian advised me the night before, be "clinical." I tried.

See, all I saw were lizards - live ones. I did see a lot of snake holes but, fortunately, no snakes. But fasteddy4 said there are a lot of coyotes out there too.

Someone earlier mentioned that if there had been a body - above ground - out there, surely the birds would have been circling at some point. I should like to think someone would have noticed. But then, someone else mentioned how un-observant people are these days, so I guess not.

I'm sorry, but I saw a LOT of potential burial sites. I don't know if they'll be checked out, but I hope so. If it's seriously believed that Steven is out there somewhere, I wish LE would get involved.

I wish they would too--besides the PI---but we have no foul play suspected and a young faithful man with no dark sides we know of. I'm beginning to feel like this is the SP case. No clues.

 

[laytonian]

I seem to recall reading a story a while back that a lot of the Lost Boys have wound up in St. George. In your opinion, do you think they're well-tracked at this point? Once they are "of age?" I have no idea, but I do hope so. My heart goes out to them. IIRC, there is a pending lawsuit filed on their behalf, so hopefully, the state is on top of it. Still, I'm sure a good many of them have fallen through the cracks over the years. They were ill-equiped to live in any world outside of the FLDS. :furious:

I just wonder if they went missing, would anyone know or bother to report it?

Sure. They're being integrated into society, and have made relationships. They're just like anyone else, with perhaps some strange stories to tell and some anger issues.

They've not been identified publicly, so if something happened, few would know the linkage. I always wonder if they, as adults, would want to start their own fundamentalist groups. Or maybe the betrayal would turn them against that kind of fundy-ism. Hopefully.

But they're a lot luckier than the ones who got to stay, or the girls.

The word "Lost" seems so sinister, which is why I prefer "Found".

 

[hollyblue]

Sure. They're being integrated into society, and have made relationships. They're just like anyone else, with perhaps some strange stories to tell and some anger issues.

They've not been identified publicly, so if something happened, few would know the linkage. I always wonder if they, as adults, would want to start their own fundamentalist groups. Or maybe the betrayal would turn them against that kind of fundy-ism. Hopefully.

But they're a lot luckier than the ones who got to stay, or the girls.

The word "Lost" seems so sinister, which is why I prefer "Found".

I think it's barbaric. Like a herd of buffalo, when mating gets ready to happen it's time to clear out the younins'.

 

[rd_jfc]

<snip>
I also think he was given directions to the house & he had them with him. He looks confident in the video that he knows where he's going.

What did the directions look like? What hint of source did they have? How detailed were they? From where to where?

rd

 

[Fairy1]

The thing is, that soil's rocky in most places. It'd be hard to dig a hole big enough for an adult body .... and do it quickly, in the dark, while no one's watching.

Frankly, I'd be sending divers down into the ponds -- or dragging them.

I keep thinking about those piles of cinder blocks. There was something else under them - like tree or bush trimmings. The piles were pretty well above ground and looked like they had been rained on more than once. If someone had buried a body there, they wouldn't have needed to dig too deep into the soil.

 

[laytonian]

I keep thinking about those piles of cinder blocks. There was something else under them - like tree or bush trimmings. The piles were pretty well above ground and looked like they had been rained on more than once. If someone had buried a body there, they wouldn't have needed to dig too deep into the soil.

I wonder if the search dogs went through that area? You'd think they'd hit on something there.

In contrast to the hard work we see you all doing, the Powell search (AS SEEN ON TV) looked like a picnic with chairs, cool drinks and paragliders!

 

[Paulette]

It is conceivable that someone offered to put him up at their house, as a ruse to get him there. I don't think he had $$$ for a hotel and he was eating fast food. Or, offered to cook him lunch & have a swim or a shower. Maybe this person said they were interested in Mormonism & would Steven like to come over and talk about religion.

I'm sure we could think of more scenarios that a killer could use to lure a victim to their house. Look at John Wayne Gacy. He had many people buried under his floor.

Steven was probably gullible, he looks it in his pictures. A nice, helpful, clean-cut man. Those are the kind of people some perps look for, not the hardbitten street person that might make a fuss.

He never made it out of Anthem alive. He's either there, or taken away in someones' car or a dumpster. He would never leave his car & run off, he had presents in his car & church duties. He was religious, he wouldn't kill himself.

 

[RayO]

True, but IIRC, that guy was much older than Steven and married, right?

This is a creepy way to think, but here goes. There are hundreds if not thousands of young people on the streets here - destitute and alone. It wouldn't be much of a challenge to drive around and pick one up any time of the day or night, if one were so inclined. So why "lure" a young, religious man from another state? And how? If Steven was led to SCA by someone in St. George, then we have a tag-team. Maybe we SHOULD be looking at other missing peeps (guys) from that area instead of this area.

I wonder if all the Lost Boys are accounted for...

Yes, but many of them are "street smart" and someone might have been looking for a clean-cut guy. How trusting of strangers was Steven?

 

[Fairy1]

Sure. They're being integrated into society, and have made relationships. They're just like anyone else, with perhaps some strange stories to tell and some anger issues.

I would say more like abandoment issues. It doesn't matter who turns you out or why. And not just abandoned, but banished. Those are their families and the only life they'd known. It just makes me so sick.

They've not been identified publicly, so if something happened, few would know the linkage. I always wonder if they, as adults, would want to start their own fundamentalist groups. Or maybe the betrayal would turn them against that kind of fundy-ism. Hopefully.

I just wonder if good people are caring for them and helping them integrate. They're basically foster kids - and that's not always a good thing.

But they're a lot luckier than the ones who got to stay, or the girls.

I totally agree with you here, but I wonder if they would see it that way?

The word "Lost" seems so sinister, which is why I prefer "Found".

In any case, these kids (which is what they are), coming from their former circumstances and forced into new lives are essentially at great risk. I'd love to think they've all been rescued, but I don't believe that's the case. I would imagine a good many of them have either taken the wrong road or been led down the wrong road by others.

My point is, without legal birth records, the state of Utah would be unable to account for many of them. And who knows when they started paying attention? I doubt very much this is a recent practice employed by the FLDS. It's probably been going on for years and years.

Isn't it possible Steven crossed paths with at least one of the "boys" who had NOT been rescued and had taken the wrong path? It may even have been someone he was trying to help and unwittingly fell into a trap.

 

[hollyblue]

I keep thinking about those piles of cinder blocks. There was something else under them - like tree or bush trimmings. The piles were pretty well above ground and looked like they had been rained on more than once. If someone had buried a body there, they wouldn't have needed to dig too deep into the soil.

I just read SK's FB and the PI says you guys found over 50 items, but nothing he thinks may be related to Steven's case. He also says that was not the last search, so maybe they will go to check those places you are speaking of or maybe something can be done on the next search out there. He had a substantial tip to take him there--I don't know if that campsite that was found was the tip and he thought it may have been Steven's.