Identified! NV - Virginia City, WhtMale body in septic tank, Aug'13 - George Webster

New Posts

From NamUs, it also sounds as though he had a significant leg deformity: right lower leg deformity; posterior displacement (at 45 degree angle) of proximal end of the right fibula.

I looked at a few squirm-inducing photos online and it seems like this means that below his right knee, the front of his leg would have the appearance of "caving in".
 
Thank you Ambercat for finding him in NAMUS. I'm happy to see that he has a nice, complete profile.

The small, cylinder item, could be a flashlight? That's what comes to my mind. Who knows, it could be anything. It's probably pointless to even speculate.

In looking back at the list of possibles I posted a few months ago, only one seems possible now, Glenn Carroll.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1249dmnv.html

Glenn went missing from Ely, NV in 1980. The date is consistent with the info tatertot found on the belt buckle.

He has brown hair and is 5'8", consistent with the remains.

Glenn's car was found abandoned 60 miles west of Ely, and he would have had to go about 250 more miles to end up in a septic tank in Storey Cty, but it is a straight shot across Highway 50, "the loneliest road in America."
 
Irish_Eyes said:
Here is the American Mountain Men site...looks like they have an exhibit in loan...wonder if it has old photos or a record of the old membership lists from Nevada if there would be any such thing. I found another chapter page in rural NY that was started in 1968 I think...not sure how much further back the group dates, but he may have been among its early/founding members if the remains are that old.

http://user.xmission.com/~drudy/amm/
Click to expand...

http://user.xmission.com/~drudy/amm/ammhstry.html

Interestingly there where 7 original members of the "American Mountain Men" and five where still members in 1986. Missing from the photo on the page (from 1975), in 1986, where Lee Robertson and George Johnson. I wonder if our Doe could be in this picture? Lee Robertson btw looks like he had red hair back then. Only reference on this page to either is a memorial built sometime later in honor of "Johnson". What happened to Robertson?
 
Sleuthster said:
http://user.xmission.com/~drudy/amm/ammhstry.html

Interestingly there where 7 original members of the "American Mountain Men" and five where still members in 1986. Missing from the photo on the page (from 1975), in 1986, where Lee Robertson and George Johnson. I wonder if our Doe could be in this picture? Lee Robertson btw looks like he had red hair back then. Only reference on this page to either is a memorial built sometime later in honor of "Johnson". What happened to Robertson?
Click to expand...

Interesting...

I'm treading carefully here, because I don't want to run afoul of the rules about possible living people...

The man you mention, LR, does look like he may have red/auburn hair, and he appears as a sort of small guy. The UID is 5'7", that would be on the short side for a man.

That said, I did a bit of Googling and I believe LR to be alive. While his is a common sort of name, I found an Amazon.com profile for that name who has reviews of a lot of books that sound like his type of literature. Other online evidence suggests that he is alive and living in the midwest. I would be happy to provide more details in a PM.
 
micheleonelonly said:
Interesting...

I'm treading carefully here, because I don't want to run afoul of the rules about possible living people...

The man you mention, LR, does look like he may have red/auburn hair, and he appears as a sort of small guy. The UID is 5'7", that would be on the short side for a man.

That said, I did a bit of Googling and I believe LR to be alive. While his is a common sort of name, I found an Amazon.com profile for that name who has reviews of a lot of books that sound like his type of literature. Other online evidence suggests that he is alive and living in the midwest. I would be happy to provide more details in a PM.
Click to expand...

Yes, please send it so I can check it out.
 
Has anyone yet contacted someone in the leadership of the American Mountain Men group? If not, I could write them an email today.

The site that Irish_Eyes found, again: http://user.xmission.com/~drudy/amm/

From reading the history of the organization and the "Bossloper" (full) membership requirements, it's apparent that to join AMM as a full member requires no small amount of commitment.

If the AMM medallion found with this UID definitely came from this organization as a symbol of membership then it almost has to be the UID's own medallion that he earned himself. It doesn't sound at all likely that someone could be that dedicated to demonstrating primitive survival skills and joining AMM, only to casually give the medallion to someone else.
 
''Hello,

My name is Samantha *** and I am a volunteer in WebSleuths.com’s “Unidentified” forum.

I am contacting you regarding a John Doe who was found in a septic tank in Virginia City, Nevada on August 27, 2013. He was found with an American Mountain Men medallion and we think this is our best bet in identifying him. Especially since, from what I’ve read, AMM is a relatively small group and we’re all but certain that he was an AMM member or at least knew another member.

Here is John Doe’s NamUs page: https://identifyus.org/en/cases/11732
And here is the WebSleuths.com thread about him. My handle is “Migmuu”: NV NV - Virginia City, Human Bones Found in Septic Tank-In Loc Up to 25 yrs, Aug'13 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

And here is his description:
White male
30 - 60 years old
Around 5’7 in height
Red or brown hair
Had a deformity in his lower right leg, making it look like it was “caving in” under the knee. (I’ve attached a picture to give you an idea of what it may have looked like when he was alive.)
Wore a red or green shirt, gray jeans, dark-colored work boots, a dark-colored belt, the AMM medallion and a belt buckle saying “I will give up my gun when they pry my cold, dead fingers from around it!” (Keep in mind that the clothing he was wearing may not be the same as the one the man was last seen in.)

Would you be willing to help us? Per WebSleuths.com’s policy, we will not refer to people by their real names unless they are mentioned in a news article or the person explicitly gives us permission to do so. And, if you do not feel comfortable talking to law enforcement, you can just email me and I (or another WebSleuther) can pass it on to them.

My email address is ***. Feel free to write me at any time and I'll get back to

We appreciate any and all help.

Thank you for your time,

Samantha ***''

Sounds good? I can send it to the national officers and the booshways in charge of Nevada
 
Migmuu said:
''Hello,

My name is Samantha *** and I am a volunteer in WebSleuths.com’s “Unidentified” forum.

I am contacting you regarding a John Doe who was found in a septic tank in Virginia City, Nevada on August 27, 2013. He was found with an American Mountain Men medallion and we think this is our best bet in identifying him. Especially since, from what I’ve read, AMM is a relatively small group and we’re all but certain that he was an AMM member or at least knew another member.

Here is John Doe’s NamUs page: https://identifyus.org/en/cases/11732
And here is the WebSleuths.com thread about him. My handle is “Migmuu”: NV NV - Virginia City, Human Bones Found in Septic Tank-In Loc Up to 25 yrs, Aug'13 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

And here is his description:
White male
30 - 60 years old
Around 5’7 in height
Red or brown hair
Had a deformity in his lower right leg, making it look like it was “caving in” under the knee. (I’ve attached a picture to give you an idea of what it may have looked like when he was alive.)
Wore a red or green shirt, gray jeans, dark-colored work boots, a dark-colored belt, the AMM medallion and a belt buckle saying “I will give up my gun when they pry my cold, dead fingers from around it!” (Keep in mind that the clothing he was wearing may not be the same as the one the man was last seen in.)

Would you be willing to help us? Per WebSleuths.com’s policy, we will not refer to people by their real names unless they are mentioned in a news article or the person explicitly gives us permission to do so. And, if you do not feel comfortable talking to law enforcement, you can just email me and I (or another WebSleuther) can pass it on to them.

My email address is ***. Feel free to write me at any time and I'll get back to

We appreciate any and all help.

Thank you for your time,

Samantha ***''

Sounds good? I can send it to the national officers and the booshways in charge of Nevada
Click to expand...

Thank you for sending this, I believe they would be able to shed some light as I would think those medallions are something given to members either of this group or one similar they could identify. Please let us know their response.
 
Just sent the email to the national officers and the two Nevada booshways. I'll tell you guys what they say when I get a response. :]
 
I got an email back from one of the national officers a few hours ago. He was very nice and told me that the sheriff's department has already been in touch with him and that they don't have a possible match yet. He says they don't know whether the medallion was real, a counterfeit, inherited, stolen, or given away, and it's possible that the UID may not have even been an AMM member.

I asked a few questions about the medallion - how long they've been distributed to members, if the design has ever changed (and, if so, what year), if the design or metal is different based on the person's rank, and if he can send me a picture of it. I haven't gotten a reply yet so I'll post when I do.

Edit: He also said he enjoyed reading this thread, so that was cool too
 
Thank you for sending that email and thank you to the AMM leader for reading this thread. It's good to know LE has already looked into the significance of the medallion.

A septic tank is buried fairly close to the house and it shouldn't be covered by a driveway, trees or shrubs. You're not supposed to dig and disturb the soil over the tank and leach field.

It's doubtful the former homeowners would have hired someone to dig in this area of their yard for fear of damaging their septic system, but I hope LE has asked them about any occasions they might have done so and who had access to the tank.

The possibility of a clandestine burial on their property doesn't seem likely. Digging down to the hatch would leave the soil disturbed and the homeowners would have noticed the damage to their lawn so close to their house, unless the property was vacant for some time.

If it's certain that nobody had access to the tank, that leaves the possibility that the UID was put in the tank when it was installed.
 
"Red/green cloth-like fabric"

This is apparently a winter-dressed AMM:

scr-ammcamp.jpg


http://www.mmmuseum.com/exhibits/home.htm
 
tatertot said:
Thank you for sending that email and thank you to the AMM leader for reading this thread. It's good to know LE has already looked into the significance of the medallion.

A septic tank is buried fairly close to the house and it shouldn't be covered by a driveway, trees or shrubs. You're not supposed to dig and disturb the soil over the tank and leach field.

It's doubtful the former homeowners would have hired someone to dig in this area of their yard for fear of damaging their septic system, but I hope LE has asked them about any occasions they might have done so and who had access to the tank.

The possibility of a clandestine burial on their property doesn't seem likely. Digging down to the hatch would leave the soil disturbed and the homeowners would have noticed the damage to their lawn so close to their house, unless the property was vacant for some time.

If it's certain that nobody had access to the tank, that leaves the possibility that the UID was put in the tank when it was installed.
Click to expand...

Assuming that their septic tank is similar to my parents' tank:

It would have been uncovered every time it was pumped, usually every 10-15 years. It appears that the previous pumping was in 1996 when the first bits were found, so the time before was likely in the '80s.

The standard pre-made concrete hatch for a concrete tank is definitely large enough for a person to get through; that's so somebody can go in and repair it.

One scenario: person unscrewed the hatch and went in to repair it, had a heart attack or something and nobody ever noticed he was missing. Falling in like that seems plausible. No record of it does not.

Another scenario: somebody with a body to dispose of saw the disturbed ground where the tank had been recently pumped, dug out the hatch, unscrewed the lid, stuffed the body in, and dropped the screwdriver and other cylindrical object, possibly a flashlight, in after him. Problem: then the disposer wouldn't be able to screw the hatch back down. But it could be pulled into place and covered, and not screwing down probably doesn't really matter. Second problem: if I recollect my parents' hatch correctly, it bolts down, not screwd.

Another scenario: the screwdriver was the murder weapon.
 
CarlK90245 said:
Septic tanks are just deep holes in the ground. They were what all homes had before sewer lines were installed in cities.
Click to expand...

No no my friend. Those are out houses! :floorlaugh: I live in a very isolated hollow, and even I have a septic tank. :)
 
Tulessa said:
No no my friend. Those are out houses! :floorlaugh: I live in a very isolated hollow, and even I have a septic tank. :)
Click to expand...

I used to do construction work in Malibu and a few other mountainous areas of LA County where there was running water, but no sewer service, and they had septic tanks just as I described. They weren't outhouses. They were big deep holes about 3 feet in diameter, and lined with bricks. They served as a collection basin for the toilets inside the house. Periodically, the homeowners would have to flush organisms down the toilet to assist in decomposition of the sewage, and they didn't normally need to be pumped out. The decomposed sewage would just absorb into the ground.

On one job, I had to dig a new one, and go down into the old one to remove as many of the bricks as I could before we buried it.
 
CarlK90245 said:
I used to do construction work in Malibu and a few other mountainous areas of LA County where there was running water, but no sewer service, and they had septic tanks just as I described. They weren't outhouses. They were big deep holes about 3 feet in diameter, and lined with bricks. They served as a collection basin for the toilets inside the house. Periodically, the homeowners would have to flush organisms down the toilet to assist in decomposition of the sewage, and they didn't normally need to be pumped out. The decomposed sewage would just absorb into the ground.

On one job, I had to dig a new one, and go down into the old one to remove as many of the bricks as I could before we buried it.
Click to expand...

I thought that kind of system was called a cesspool or cesspit, not a septic tank?
 
Our UID's page on NAMUS now lists an address for the location where he was found
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/11732
It's in the "Circumstances" page. It lists "2225 Sutro, Virginia City Highlands, 89706."

I tried to make up a map in Google of the zip code, but I'm using an unfamiliar computer and I can't figure out how to share the screenshot. The region stretches across Carson City, and almost far enough north to be considered "Deep South Reno," near the Summit Sierra Mall. The little area at the very north is what I think of as the VC Highlands. But hey, I'm hail more from the North Valleys, old Sparks, and NW Reno, so I could be wrong.

Anyhow, the only possible address I could find to match was "2225 South Sutro Terrace, Carson City, 89706." When you look for it in Google Map, it shows the approx address, and that's it.

If any of you are familiar with that neck of the woods and have some insight, I'd love to hear it. I haven't been able to find any news more recent than "the remains are human."
 
On the Namus site it says some soft tissue was found AND Fingerprint information is available....HOW could that be possible with such old remains? I've read about remains only being a few months old and not being able to provide prints. This is confusing me!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 81 more.
Total: 3,570 (members: 82, guests: 3,488)

Online statistics

Members online
82
Guests online
3,488
Total visitors
3,570
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
592,490
Messages
17,969,732
Members
228,789
Latest member
Soccergirl500
Back
Top