NV NV - White Pine Co, WhtMale 40-60, UP7428, note signed 'J', golf shoes, dental work, glasses, Jan'84

[nerosleuth]

Cause of Death: Carbon monoxide poisoning/Suicide. Hose connection from automobile exhaust into automobile interior.

According to the Doe Network, all of the tags were removed from clothing prior to death

I just don't think a suicidal person would go through the trouble of removing all of the tags from their clothing prior to commiting suicide. :waitasec:

 

[Ambercat]

Without a good image of the person, it's pretty difficult to get someone to know who you are talking about based on a description. Even if they do know the guy.

I still think its worth a try. Since we know what the car is, it is worth asking if they remember a guy with graying auburn hair driving a 1968 grey/green Chevrolet Bel Air 2 door hard top (I'm not sure how common that car would have been in 1983-1984). If someone suggested a name, it could at least be compared against missing person records.

Since you do reconstructions professionally, what do you need to do one of a person?

 

[Ambercat]

I just don't think a suicidal person would go through the trouble of removing all of the tags from their clothing prior to commiting suicide. :waitasec:

That always struck me as kind of strange. Possibly, his name was written on the tags and he obviously didn't want to be identified. He probably took the license plate off the car and disposed of it before getting to the Willow Patch Rest Stop.

 

[CarlK90245]

I still think its worth a try. Since we know what the car is, it is worth asking if they remember a guy with graying auburn hair driving a 1968 grey/green Chevrolet Bel Air 2 door hard top (I'm not sure how common that car would have been in 1983-1984). If someone suggested a name, it could at least be compared against missing person records.

Since you do reconstructions professionally, what do you need to do one of a person?

I don't do reconstructions professionally. In fact, I was criticized heavily on this forum by one member for having the audacity to do reconstructions despite that I wasn't a professional. I did do several reconstructions for DoeNetwork, but that person complained to them and they don't use my work anymore (But I digress ).

But to answer your question, I would need a reasonably clear postmortem photo of the person (preferably one that was taken straight-on.) I've done a couple of skeletal reconstructions, but I am not very confident of their accuracy.

 

[Ambercat]

I don't do reconstructions professionally. In fact, I was criticized heavily on this forum by one member for having the audacity to do reconstructions despite that I wasn't a professional. I did do several reconstructions for DoeNetwork, but that person complained to them and they don't use my work anymore (But I digress ).

But to answer your question, I would need a reasonably clear postmortem photo of the person (preferably one that was taken straight-on.) I've done a couple of skeletal reconstructions, but I am not very confident of their accuracy.

I wonder if the person who you are talking about had a personal issue (like maybe you offended them about something else?) of some sort, because that seems really rude on their part. I'm sorry to hear that the Doe Network doesn't use your work anymore, because I notice that there were quite a few cases that did not have a picture until you did the reconstruction.

I think for the man from White Pine, if someone was going to do a reconstruction it would have to be from an x-ray if one exists. I am surprised how difficult it is to contact some people to inquire about him. I am inquiring, but it is going very slowly. I also posted on Craigslist (St. George, UT), but I haven't received any reply.

A thought occurred to me, from something Webrocket said a while back -- I wonder if the Chevy was stolen from a Mormon? Or maybe the Chevy was at least stolen or "borrowed" and not his car? After all this time, I wonder if there is some way to find out?

 

[webrocket]

I wonder if the person who you are talking about had a personal issue (like maybe you offended them about something else?) of some sort, because that seems really rude on their part. I'm sorry to hear that the Doe Network doesn't use your work anymore, because I notice that there were quite a few cases that did not have a picture until you did the reconstruction.

somewhere in the rules of this site it is stated that we are not to discuss former members who have been banned from the site or to speculate why. just giving you that head's up Amber lest someone target you! LOL

 

[Ambercat]

somewhere in the rules of this site it is stated that we are not to discuss former members who have been banned from the site or to speculate why. just giving you that head's up Amber lest someone target you! LOL

Thanks for the heads up. Sorry. I feel really embarrassed now. :blushing:

 

[webrocket]

Thanks for the heads up. Sorry. I feel really embarrassed now. :blushing:

no need to feel embarassed Amber. it is a common mistake. I made it too before it was pointed out to me.

 

[Ambercat]

I searched the missing persons section of NamUs by vehicle. There was only one missing person associated with a Chevrolet Bel Air, Edward Tidwell of Marion, Kentucky who was reported missing on December 14, 1981.
https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/9728/0/
But his Chevy Bel Air was described as a yellow 1974 model, so unless that is a typo, he is probably not the man in White Pine County, NV.

 

[Ambercat]

I contacted the Washoe County Coroner (they are handling most/all of the coroner's cases for NV except Clark and Lincoln county) and was told that the police had looked into the car and its contents and were not able to identify the owner. I would really like to know what LE came up with when they looked into this (if anything pointed them in one direction or another and if it is more than is listed on NamUs).

 

[Ambercat]

I recently got in touch with Melissa Rosell at the White Pine County Library and asked her if there was an article about this man in the Ely Daily Times when his body was discovered. There was one, yet it did not give very much information at all (no cause of death, no information about the make/model of car, no description of the man (which was what I was really looking for)). It is about four sentences long and the headline reads "Dead Man Inside Car." It does provide a different description of the location where he was found.

A man was found dead Wednesday morning in a car parked on a dirt road on the east side of Sacramento pass

He was found by a Mt. Wheeler Power Employee. The article says that no forms of ID were found and the car did not have license plates.

 

[othervee]

I am not sure if skin changes color or not with carbon monoxide poisoning

Fatal levels of carbon monoxide can change the skin colour to a bright cherry pink or red. Google carbon monoxide cherry and you'll find some references. It is in the Wikipedia article but only a very brief, blink-and-you'll-miss-it mention.

 

[Ambercat]

I began reading Escape by Carolyn Jessop recently and something on page 4 stood out to me (regarding cars in Colorado City, AZ/Hildale, UT)

Women in the community could drive -- but our cars either had no license plates or outdated ones

I know it was a man found in the car without plates (maybe he took his wife's car for some reason or other?), yet since I became aware of this case, I have suspected off and on that this person came from the Colorado City/Hildale area and his family did not report him missing to outside authorities.

 

[eeyorelrn]

I wonder if there is a way to run the VIN number of the car to see who it was registered to in 1984? Then again, that would assume that records that far back would have been entered into a state database.

 

[ezio_mctavish]

This is a really long shot, but there is a good chance if he was LDS that he served a mission. It is kind of a right of passage in the LDS church for young men between the ages of 19-22. If he did serve a mission he would have had to go through the Missionary Training Center in Provo, UT. The thing about it is that the LDS keeps extremely good records on the missionaries that come through. All missionaries have to send in a lot of paperwork that includes a picture and medical, dental records. I am going to call the MTC next week and see if they might be able to do something.

We do have dental and finger prints. I am wondering if there is an artist sketch out there of him, that might be helpful.

 

[Ambercat]

This is a really long shot, but there is a good chance if he was LDS that he served a mission. It is kind of a right of passage in the LDS church for young men between the ages of 19-22. If he did serve a mission he would have had to go through the Missionary Training Center in Provo, UT. The thing about it is that the LDS keeps extremely good records on the missionaries that come through. All missionaries have to send in a lot of paperwork that includes a picture and medical, dental records. I am going to call the MTC next week and see if they might be able to do something.

We do have dental and finger prints. I am wondering if there is an artist sketch out there of him, that might be helpful.

I was really happy to read your post! That would be really great if you could find something in the records at MTC. The Doe Network estimated his age as being between 40 to 46 in 1984 (which, if it is accurate would mean he was probably born between 1944 and 1938, thus he may have served on a mission sometime between 1957 and 1966). Both the Washoe County Coroner and NamUs said that his age couldn't be determined, but his hair was starting to go gray (I think this would probably rule out a younger man, say less than 37 or 38?).

Do people usually stay in touch after their mission -- would it be noticeable if no one had heard from a person after 1983 or 1984?

I don't think that a sketch exists (I searched a lot for information about this unidentified man and couldn't find one). I wonder if the Medical Examiner has enough information for one to be done? I think that they might be able to do it with a skull x-ray.

Please keep us posted what you hear from MTC.

 

[ezio_mctavish]

I was really happy to read your post! That would be really great if you could find something in the records at MTC. The Doe Network estimated his age as being between 40 to 46 in 1984 (which, if it is accurate would mean he was probably born between 1944 and 1938, thus he may have served on a mission sometime between 1957 and 1966). Both the Washoe County Coroner and NamUs said that his age couldn't be determined, but his hair was starting to go gray (I think this would probably rule out a younger man, say less than 37 or 38?).

Do people usually stay in touch after their mission -- would it be noticeable if no one had heard from a person after 1983 or 1984?

I don't think that a sketch exists (I searched a lot for information about this unidentified man and couldn't find one). I wonder if the Medical Examiner has enough information for one to be done? I think that they might be able to do it with a skull x-ray.

Please keep us posted what you hear from MTC.

Thanks a lot. I will probably contact the MTC on Tuesday.

As for people keeping in touch after their missions. It is very possible, but after a while you lose contact since your companions are from all over the world.

Yea I don't think one exists either. That is kind of frustrating when I see an entry on NamUs or DoeNetwork without a photo.

The other thing I was thinking was in the police report there was no mention of temple undergarments which you wear after you go through the endowment ceremony at the temple. Most likely a man who was in his 40's would have been to the temple. When you go through the temple you wear these at all times except for things like when you go swimming.

There are a few possibilities as to why he didn't have them on.
1. He wasn't a member.
2. He wasn't wearing them that day.
3. He just never received his endowments for whatever reason.

These are all dead ends. However these could be strong clues:

1. He was excommunicated from the church. When you are excommunicated then you are council led not to wear you garments anymore. This could also be the reason behind his suicide is he felt such stong guilt for what he had done and wanted to remain nameless.

2. He could have been a recent convert to the church. As there is a one year waiting period before you can go to the temple.

Excommunication records are very hard to get ahold of. But the ecclesiastical leaders may be able to look and see if they had any excommunicated members that just disappeared at that time.

New convert records should be pretty easy to get ahold of. Also most excommunications last for about a year.

 

[ezio_mctavish]

I wonder if there is a way to run the VIN number of the car to see who it was registered to in 1984? Then again, that would assume that records that far back would have been entered into a state database.

I will have to look into it to see if any states around there retain records that long if so then that would be huge.

 

[Ambercat]

Thanks a lot. I will probably contact the MTC on Tuesday.

As for people keeping in touch after their missions. It is very possible, but after a while you lose contact since your companions are from all over the world.

Yea I don't think one exists either. That is kind of frustrating when I see an entry on NamUs or DoeNetwork without a photo.

The other thing I was thinking was in the police report there was no mention of temple undergarments which you wear after you go through the endowment ceremony at the temple. Most likely a man who was in his 40's would have been to the temple. When you go through the temple you wear these at all times except for things like when you go swimming.

There are a few possibilities as to why he didn't have them on.
1. He wasn't a member.
2. He wasn't wearing them that day.
3. He just never received his endowments for whatever reason.

These are all dead ends. However these could be strong clues:

1. He was excommunicated from the church. When you are excommunicated then you are council led not to wear you garments anymore. This could also be the reason behind his suicide is he felt such stong guilt for what he had done and wanted to remain nameless.

2. He could have been a recent convert to the church. As there is a one year waiting period before you can go to the temple.

Excommunication records are very hard to get ahold of. But the ecclesiastical leaders may be able to look and see if they had any excommunicated members that just disappeared at that time.

New convert records should be pretty easy to get ahold of. Also most excommunications last for about a year.

I was completely unaware about temple undergarments prior to reading your post and ended up looking them up on Wikipedia for more information. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_undergarment

Could it be possible that, because he really didn’t want to be identified that he got rid of them around the same time he got rid of the Chevrolet Bel Air’s license plates and anything he had with his name on it?

I am wondering if the ME was not familiar with their significance of the undergarments or did not mention if for some other reason? I don’t think that the ME who examined the man in the Chevrolet is still working there. I e-mailed the contact for the Washoe County Coroner, Rudolf Bein, a while ago and I got the impression that the White Pine County Sheriff’s office has more documentation on him.

I think that your ideas are really good. If you could look through the records (or find someone who would), maybe his name would be there. I don’t mean to violate anyone’s privacy, but if he was excommunicated, would it say why?

 

[Ambercat]

I think that I found the Willow Patch Rest Stop on Google Maps. It is at US 50/US 6 and Osceola Rd.
http://g.co/maps/8mafw
While he may have taken his life there because the location had some sort of meaning to him, it is likely that he did it there because he thought no one would interrupt him because it is a really lonely area (although there does appear to be quite a few vehicles in the satellite photo).