Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - #10

[Abigail]

Okay... Deep breath, my first post...and because I've noticed how strict the rules are, this may not be allowed. For me, the biggest issue is the phone. I tend to believe (IMO) that JR left home not alive. She therefore would not have taken her phone with her. Now, what is someone supposed to do with that phone afterwards? If someone was calling her phone every hour, wouldn't they hear it ring in the house? Uh oh, what does that do to an alibi? So, the phone had to be dealt with.
With my phone, when I do the "Find My Phone," it tells me it is at #x zz rd., oneonta, NY. It does not tell me if it is in the living room, bedroom, front yard, or way down the hill in the back yard. So, someone getting a "ping" from the phone would only have a remote idea of where it was. Additionally, the person who might have abducted JR could possibly have her held under gunpoint. So WHY go there alone? (Unless you knew no one had her under gunpoint.)
I find the "finding of the phone" the most incredible piece of this whole story.
And, BTW, thank you to all of you who have so steadfastedly put all your collective knowledge together, and are trying very hard to do whatever you can to help Jennifer.

:wagon: Welcome Auntie M!!

And...while we're on the topic of the phone...can someone explain to me this thing about the rock turning on the phone??

 

[nanasbabes]

:wagon: Welcome Auntie M!!

And...while we're on the topic of the phone...can someone explain to me this thing about the rock turning on the phone??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavanda Dolce
I've narrowed to 2 "greater" possibilities:

One: Despondent and left; afraid of peers/family to come forward
Two: carjacked (possibly by multiple people.)
She goes to use her phone..they snatch it...turn it off...took her somewhere...harmed her. drove around all night or stayed somewhere else with her in van. Now need plan on what to do with her...in morning after their drugged craze wore off....drives down route 23
Pulls into mud by dirt mound...tosses phone...phone hits rock which turns back on and lands in mud to cushion glass. Intentions to put her in the water..realizes that it is not a good place as water is clearly visible to bottom (you can see all the rocks at bottom) and decide not a good place after all...peels out...mud splashes..drives further down road...2 or 3 other ponds between the two places....maybe placed her in one of those that was not as clear... and finally abandons van at apartment and maybe van not even abandoned that day. Maybe not until day after.

We drove many roads and none were thick with mud. Ironically the only mud place was where the cell was found. (and one other possible road near Morris, NY called LIEB Road was muddy. No others...not enough to have vehicle look like mine did....and hers.)

BBM

 

[sleepinoz]

:wagon: Welcome Auntie M!!

And...while we're on the topic of the phone...can someone explain to me this thing about the rock turning on the phone??

The Rock: Read Tennlyns post above

https://www.facebook.com/MissingJenniferRamsaran/posts/143561645813431

 

[Abigail]

This is going back to the last thread -- that quote about a reward not being necessary at the time, but that would be addressed when the media goes away.

Ok...so that would have been late January. I don't recall there being a hot and heavy media presence at that time. A few articles in December, maybe one or two in January.

Nor is there one now. No articles in the last week...no articles in the last 2 weeks...most recent is 7 lines in the CNY news on March 11.

Perhaps now would be a good time for GR to make good on his vow for vengeance by making a public plea for information leading to his wife's death and offering a reward for any information that leads to solving the case.

 

[Amanda79]

My phone finally died. Retried find my iphone ap. I continue to get a silver circle and highlighted in red it says "last location" at 6:19 pm. When I select for a sound to be played it is "sound pending" again. So I'm convinced at very minimum her last pinged location should have shown up that night. And it makes little sense that it did not pick anything up at all til the next day. It'd seem they should have went to this last location to see if possibly her car went off the road. It baffles me why LE didn't use the ap. I do not believe the ap was ever used until the phone was driven to the site by GR, set own, a pic taken and police called. To be cognizant enough to tell LE that one had a "tryst" immediately and lay it all out there tells me he had to know he would be considered a suspect (usually husbands are after all).....so it seems that the iPhone ap would have been immediately brought up. Unless one did not want the phone to be found that night because it was in the home or n the van waiting to be taken care of

 

[Abigail]

The Rock: Read Tennlyns post above

https://www.facebook.com/MissingJenniferRamsaran/posts/143561645813431

OHHHHHHHHHHHH....ok, so this is a scenario that L&M came up with!

But...I'm confused...no other muddy roads??? Didn't we establish that Center Road -- VERY near to where the phone was located -- was muddy??

 

[ana]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavanda Dolce
I've narrowed to 2 "greater" possibilities:

One: Despondent and left; afraid of peers/family to come forward
Two: carjacked (possibly by multiple people.)
She goes to use her phone..they snatch it...turn it off...took her somewhere...harmed her. drove around all night or stayed somewhere else with her in van. Now need plan on what to do with her...in morning after their drugged craze wore off....drives down route 23
Pulls into mud by dirt mound...tosses phone...phone hits rock which turns back on and lands in mud to cushion glass. Intentions to put her in the water..realizes that it is not a good place as water is clearly visible to bottom (you can see all the rocks at bottom) and decide not a good place after all...peels out...mud splashes..drives further down road...2 or 3 other ponds between the two places....maybe placed her in one of those that was not as clear... and finally abandons van at apartment and maybe van not even abandoned that day. Maybe not until day after.

We drove many roads and none were thick with mud. Ironically the only mud place was where the cell was found. (and one other possible road near Morris, NY called LIEB Road was muddy. No others...not enough to have vehicle look like mine did....and hers.)

BBM

BBM :floorlaugh:

A rock hit the smalllll button and held it down, long enough for it to power on??????

I also loathe the fact the JR leaving was the number one thing, when there is no proof of her intending to leave, smh

 

[nanasbabes]

OHHHHHHHHHHHH....ok, so this is a scenario that L&M came up with!

But...I'm confused...no other muddy roads??? Didn't we establish that Center Road -- VERY near to where the phone was located -- was muddy??

Up above were JR was found they have been taking logs out as well. That would make the road muddy as well as rain etc...

 

[sleepinoz]

Quote - Abigail:
OHHHHHHHHHHHH....ok, so this is a scenario that L&M came up with!

But...I'm confused...no other muddy roads??? Didn't we establish that Center Road -- VERY near to where the phone was located -- was muddy??



I don't think that CC would have driven on Center Rd, at the time she was there to drive the area (at Shining Hope event) Jen hadn't been found.

 

[ana]

I just can't wrap my head around a person that would harm JR in broad daylight, abandon her car in a well know area to police, drop her phone in the street yet dispose of her body somewhere hidden. Wouldn't the perpetrator just leave phone in the car? Or hide the car and phone as well as he/she did the body?

Also where would this random killer come in contact with her? Is the way to the mall a highway with streetlights or a straight shot?

 

[Foxfire]

Up above were JR was found they have been taking logs out as well. That would make the road muddy as well as rain etc...

Wonder if the folks driving the logging trucks were interviewed to see if they witnessed anything.. The logging activity may have prevented dumping JR's body deeper into the forest...

 

[nanasbabes]

Wonder if the folks driving the logging trucks were interviewed to see if they witnessed anything.. The logging activity may have prevented dumping JR's body deeper into the forest...

I would believe it would prevent that. See there was a storm that went up that way awhile ago and dropped many trees, so they have been up there cleaning them up. If they went up the road father than they did to drop her off they would of been closer to the loggers and coye st, and fred stewart road. Her body was 2tenths of a mile up the road from a relatives of mine, which was around a bend in the road.

 

[SouthAussie]

BBM :floorlaugh:

A rock hit the smalllll button and held it down, long enough for it to power on??????

I also loathe the fact the JR leaving was the number one thing, when there is no proof of her intending to leave, smh

Fortunately, there are so many things that can be found when forensically testing an iPhone these days … I have been amazed at the forensic data shown in the iPhone forensics of Allison Baden-Clay’s husband (committed to trial for her murder).

As well as deleted text msgs, photos, etc … LE should be able to determine just when the phone was turned off, when the rock turned the phone back on, when/if the rock put the phone on a charger and took it off a charger, where the phone was when the rock did these things .. and lots more.

 

[ana]

Fortunately, there are so many things that can be found when forensically testing an iPhone these days … I have been amazed at the forensic data shown in the iPhone forensics of Allison Baden-Clay’s husband (committed to trial for her murder).

As well as deleted text msgs, photos, etc … LE should be able to determine just when the phone was turned off, when the rock turned the phone back on, when/if the rock put the phone on a charger and took it off a charger, where the phone was when the rock did these things .. and lots more.

Yes, it is sick how much information smartphones and apps save and access :what:. I actually did my thesis on smart phones, tablets and privacy issues.

When dealing with computer forensics, it is awesome because it will give you everything you need especially when deleted. Last charge, apps running at time of system power down, how long apps ran, etc.

Dumbest thing that the person could have done was not destroy the phone.

 

[sleepinoz]

Fortunately, there are so many things that can be found when forensically testing an iPhone these days … I have been amazed at the forensic data shown in the iPhone forensics of Allison Baden-Clay’s husband (committed to trial for her murder).

As well as deleted text msgs, photos, etc … LE should be able to determine just when the phone was turned off, when the rock turned the phone back on, when/if the rock put the phone on a charger and took it off a charger, where the phone was when the rock did these things .. and lots more.

BBM ------------ :floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[Abigail]

I'm very confused about the phone. Wasn't it reported that the phone ping actually occurred in the presence of LE? So why did he go find it by himself? Wouldn't LE be interested in what could potentially be an accident scene or a hostage situation?

Yes, that confuses me as well...especially since the reason we weren't (later) supposed to be doing searches was so as to not disturb evidence.

 

[Auntie M]

I just can't wrap my head around a person that would harm JR in broad daylight, abandon her car in a well know area to police, drop her phone in the street yet dispose of her body somewhere hidden. Wouldn't the perpetrator just leave phone in the car? Or hide the car and phone as well as he/she did the body?

It is possible the perpetrator left the house without the phone. (JR, if no longer alive, certainly wouldn't have it with her.) Someone would have to be very calm and calculating to think to take JR's phone at that time. Returning home from the Y and discovering the phone would present a real snag to an otherwise perfect crime. Too late to leave the phone in the car. Then, what would be the next step in dealing with the phone? It couldn't remain in the house for LE to find. (Afterall, supposedly if someone were calling JR's phone throughout the day, they would have heard it ringing in the house.) How could someone take care of the phone and still present themself as working to find answers? Maybe, "find the phone?" (This is totally conjecture on my part, and in no way should be taken as anything other than theory.)

 

[LolaAngelina]

I'm very confused about the phone. Wasn't it reported that the phone ping actually occurred in the presence of LE? So why did he go find it by himself? Wouldn't LE be interested in what could potentially be an accident scene or a hostage situation?

There was an answer given for that but I cannot quote or link as it was on social media and has since been deleted (as is the norm with the person who posted it)
It basically said the police looked but couldn't find it. GR was not happy with this and so went himself to go and look. And surprise surprise he happened to come across it! :facepalm:

 

[Abigail]

Quote - Abigail:
OHHHHHHHHHHHH....ok, so this is a scenario that L&M came up with!

But...I'm confused...no other muddy roads??? Didn't we establish that Center Road -- VERY near to where the phone was located -- was muddy??



I don't think that CC would have driven on Center Rd, at the time she was there to drive the area (at Shining Hope event) Jen hadn't been found.

But CC said, "We drove many roads and none were thick with mud. Ironically the only mud place was where the cell was found. (and one other possible road near Morris, NY called LIEB Road was muddy. No others...not enough to have vehicle look like mine did....and hers.)"


It sounds like they were driving all over the county looking for muddy roads. Isn't Center Road/SR 23 intersection fairly close to where the phone was found???

 

[Auntie M]

(Well, obviously I don't know how to quote posts. I was trying to respond to Ana who was wondering about why the phone wasn't left in the car. My thought was the phone had been left at home all along -- Sorry, I'll figure the quote thing out next time.)