Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - #11

[Abigail]

All we can do is stay alert and watchful and report any suspicious persons or vehicles and keep everything locked up! Check out your cars with a flashlight before getting into them at night and keep your cars locked when not in use!

It's a sad day when one has to keep everything locked up like that.

 

[Abigail]

Wait...I must have missed something -- who's Wendy??

Oh, duh, Wendy Cooper, killed by Steven Pierce. :nevermind:

 

[Foxfire]

I think they need to determine how she died, before much else can happen. If there was no obvious trauma, and cause of death cannot be determined, they may have a very difficult time bringing a murder case against anyone.

Guess, that would depend on the estimated quantity of blood found in JR's van...

 

[Amanda79]

Guess, that would depend on the estimated quantity of blood found in JR's van...

Being found unclothed dead in a ditch would seem like it would raise a red flag as well. If she decided to go for a walk it would seem she would have been dressed- it was December after all and I hadn't read any reports that she liked walking around public naked....:facepalm:

 

[sreshowtime]

at risk of being boo'ed- has anyone even dared to consider an alternative scenario? Assuming JR DID leave her house that morning to go toward the mall

What IF she did 'meet up' in some fashion, whether 'planned' or a bad encounter, a person(s) that had an evil intent? What IF she was held captive for a period- drugged - turned loose at some point in the middle of no where, or escaped?
What if the phone and vehicle were placed where they were to divert?
What if she was held some where in the area, and was trying to get back to Norwich/civilization? And was so dazed/drugged/confused/scared/disorientated , that she succumbed to the elements, what she had been through, drugs, fear, what have you....and literally fell down in her tracks and could go no further? What if she was too frightened, ashamed, scared she would be discovered by the 'bad guy(s), that she didn't approach a house?

I don't know- just throwing something different out there. Some variation of the above.
The silence is deafening.
Please don' t hit me

 

[dansmom]

at risk of being boo'ed- has anyone even dared to consider an alternative scenario? Assuming JR DID leave her house that morning to go toward the mall

What IF she did 'meet up' in some fashion, whether 'planned' or a bad encounter, a person(s) that had an evil intent? What IF she was held captive for a period- drugged - turned loose at some point in the middle of no where, or escaped?
What if the phone and vehicle were placed where they were to divert?
What if she was held some where in the area, and was trying to get back to Norwich/civilization? And was so dazed/drugged/confused/scared/disorientated , that she succumbed to the elements, what she had been through, drugs, fear, what have you....and literally fell down in her tracks and could go no further? What if she was too frightened, ashamed, scared she would be discovered by the 'bad guy(s), that she didn't approach a house?

I don't know- just throwing something different out there. Some variation of the above.
The silence is deafening.
Please don' t hit me

I would buy the "let loose" and "got away" scenario if she had arrived at any of the many homes near where she was found, knocked on the door and asked for help. That did not happen. Even if confused or dazed or drugged a naked women would be noticed walking on the road near where she was found dead, in a ditch naked. There is traffic as demonstrated by a video posted here and people living near where she was found. Sorry, I want to be open minded. If it were the case we should be very worried about a killer/ kidnapper on the loose here in Chenago county.I don't see LE warning us to be careful travelling alone etc.

 

[Bettylou4you]

at risk of being boo'ed- has anyone even dared to consider an alternative scenario? Assuming JR DID leave her house that morning to go toward the mall

What IF she did 'meet up' in some fashion, whether 'planned' or a bad encounter, a person(s) that had an evil intent? What IF she was held captive for a period- drugged - turned loose at some point in the middle of no where, or escaped?
What if the phone and vehicle were placed where they were to divert?
What if she was held some where in the area, and was trying to get back to Norwich/civilization? And was so dazed/drugged/confused/scared/disorientated , that she succumbed to the elements, what she had been through, drugs, fear, what have you....and literally fell down in her tracks and could go no further? What if she was too frightened, ashamed, scared she would be discovered by the 'bad guy(s), that she didn't approach a house?

I don't know- just throwing something different out there. Some variation of the above.
The silence is deafening.
Please don' t hit me

Quite chilling scenario. It is of course possible. Only problem i see is why would the phone be dumped and left on so close? It would give a clue she was possibly nearby and focus attention on a local search.

 

[upstate]

at risk of being boo'ed- has anyone even dared to consider an alternative scenario? Assuming JR DID leave her house that morning to go toward the mall

What IF she did 'meet up' in some fashion, whether 'planned' or a bad encounter, a person(s) that had an evil intent? What IF she was held captive for a period- drugged - turned loose at some point in the middle of no where, or escaped?
What if the phone and vehicle were placed where they were to divert?
What if she was held some where in the area, and was trying to get back to Norwich/civilization? And was so dazed/drugged/confused/scared/disorientated , that she succumbed to the elements, what she had been through, drugs, fear, what have you....and literally fell down in her tracks and could go no further? What if she was too frightened, ashamed, scared she would be discovered by the 'bad guy(s), that she didn't approach a house?

I don't know- just throwing something different out there. Some variation of the above.
The silence is deafening.
Please don' t hit me

Yes I have and I pray everyday it wasn't done by someone she knows. It just isn't looking good for that scenario with how the ones that were supposed to be her closest confidants, were confidenting each other . . .

Yeah, I made up a word, but it works, right?

I just hope they find out who did this and they get the max punishment possible!

 

[zwiebel]

BBM

Quote Respectfully Snipped BM for focus..

Calculating ruses are not uncommon in homicide cases.
In the Mickey Shunick(LA 05/2012) abduction and murder. Her bicycle was placed for easy location in shallow water at Whiskey Bay Bridge by sexual predator/serial killer Brandon Lavergne. Whiskey Bay was located off an Interstate exit, miles from the abduction site, and was well known as a body dump for Baton Rouge prolific serial killer Dexter Todd Lee. There is also unsolved cases of a serial killer on the loose in nearby Jennings, LA.

Imo, the bicycle placement was a calculating effort by BSL to manipulate investigators into thinking that ULL anthropology student Mickey Shunick, was abducted by a transient sexual predator from another city, state, or even the Jennings Serial killer.. Many folks thought she may have been the victim of a habitual drunk driver, who disposed of her body to prevent vehicular manslaughter consequences.
Imo, sexual predators/serial killers leave obvious signs. Many of these signs are not obvious, even to experienced investigators. These signs can't be seen or touched, but must be felt; love, hate, good, and evil...
BSL, used jurisdictional linkage blindness and many other calculating cat & mouse tricks to deflect and elude police from proper identification & arrest of the unknown suspect...
Due to a competent investigation by LPD, utilizing of all available resources, and enormous public awareness. BSL's ruses were rendered ineffective, and he is now serving LWOP in Angola State Prison...

Don't forget, he used his family members too.

 

[zwiebel]

Checking in. Been a busy day but had a gut feeling today was the day.....guess I was wrong. .

I think they need to determine how she died, before much else can happen. If there was no obvious trauma, and cause of death cannot be determined, they may have a very difficult time bringing a murder case against anyone.

I'm not sure about this. Haven't murder convictions come about when only skeletal remains/partial remains have been recovered? Where it was impossible to establish any cause or even approximate time, of death?

 

[cjwoods]

I cannot believe the Chenango County locals are not in an uproar about the murderer on the loose in their county.

Because if no arrest has been made, no person of interest. Who is the murderer? Who will they murder next?

It doesn't matter if were in an uproar, its the way the local le works.silence and ignor. Locals dont have any faith in le, atleast not the ones who needed help in the past. When it comes to wanting contact or information from ccs, I want in one hand and poop in the other , so im not disapionted when there both empty. And im still on my boycott of the evening sun untill they print somthing about Jennifer. I did not know the new editor nows gr.
And we have more than one murderer runing around here.

 

[cluciano63]

I'm not sure about this. Haven't murder convictions come about when only skeletal remains/partial remains have been recovered? Where it was impossible to establish any cause or even approximate time, of death?

I believe in cases if a body was buried, or found under a house. Not sure about a body found in the open.

 

[SouthAussie]

I believe in cases if a body was buried, or found under a house. Not sure about a body found in the open.

Well, we'll find out if Gerard Baden Clay is convicted of Allison's murder. Allison was left in the warm Aussie open for 10 days, no apparent COD, and may even have washed down a raging, flooded creek. Gerard was a man of previous 'respectable' reputation.



O/T I am so impressed with the speed in which LE is identifying potential suspects in the Boston bombings. Shows what can be achieved when LE utilise every available resource.

 

[cluciano63]

Well, we'll find out if Gerard Baden Clay is convicted of Allison's murder. Allison was left in the warm Aussie open for 10 days, no apparent COD, and may even have washed down a raging, flooded creek. Gerard was a man of previous 'respectable' reputation.



O/T I am so impressed with the speed in which LE is identifying potential suspects in the Boston bombings. Shows what can be achieved when LE utilise every available resource.

I don't know enough about that case to know what evidence was presented in order to charge him, just as I don't know, in Jennifer's case.

 

[SouthAussie]

I don't know enough about that case to know what evidence was presented in order to charge him, just as I don't know, in Jennifer's case.

As well as general info, LE sought very specific info from the public .. eg: possible unusual activity between certain times, possibility of car(s) being seen in a particular area at certain times. I think witness testimony may help glue together pieces of the picture for them in the Baden Clay case, as it does in so many cases.

 

[Caring4Many]

I would buy the "let loose" and "got away" scenario if she had arrived at any of the many homes near where she was found, knocked on the door and asked for help. That did not happen. Even if confused or dazed or drugged a naked women would be noticed walking on the road near where she was found dead, in a ditch naked. There is traffic as demonstrated by a video posted here and people living near where she was found. Sorry, I want to be open minded. If it were the case we should be very worried about a killer/ kidnapper on the loose here in Chenago county.I don't see LE warning us to be careful travelling alone etc.

In addition you'd have to explain the odd activity by her husband and some friends too.

 

[Abigail]

It doesn't matter if were in an uproar, its the way the local le works.silence and ignor. Locals dont have any faith in le, atleast not the ones who needed help in the past. When it comes to wanting contact or information from ccs, I want in one hand and poop in the other , so im not disapionted when there both empty. And im still on my boycott of the evening sun untill they print somthing about Jennifer. I did not know the new editor nows gr.
And we have more than one murderer runing around here.

More than one? Are you speaking of Mr. Franscisco's killer?

 

[Abigail]

at risk of being boo'ed- has anyone even dared to consider an alternative scenario? Assuming JR DID leave her house that morning to go toward the mall

What IF she did 'meet up' in some fashion, whether 'planned' or a bad encounter, a person(s) that had an evil intent? What IF she was held captive for a period- drugged - turned loose at some point in the middle of no where, or escaped?
What if the phone and vehicle were placed where they were to divert?
What if she was held some where in the area, and was trying to get back to Norwich/civilization? And was so dazed/drugged/confused/scared/disorientated , that she succumbed to the elements, what she had been through, drugs, fear, what have you....and literally fell down in her tracks and could go no further? What if she was too frightened, ashamed, scared she would be discovered by the 'bad guy(s), that she didn't approach a house?

I don't know- just throwing something different out there. Some variation of the above.
The silence is deafening.
Please don' t hit me

No...not boo'd -- I think we've all been trying to come up with alternate scenarios. I keep getting stuck with movtive and logistics.

Let's first consider motive: who would want Jennifer dead?

1) Let's consider the suggestion that she developed an "emotional attachment" to someone she met playing online games. Even if that had happened, why would that person want to kill her? And, if she had hooked up with another player, there would be a clear electronic trail -- and LE has not mentioned anything of the sort, nor have they issued any sorts of warnings to online players of a potential stalker/rapist/murderer. Furthermore...she apparently met her death in Chenango County -- if we consider the possibility that they had planned to meet that day, wouldn't it have made more sense to meet OUTSIDE of Chenango County, away from prying eyes? After all, she was supposedly headed to Syracuse -- why not meet there?

2) Let's consider the possibility that Jennifer was abducted by a random rapist/serial killer who just happened to be passing through the area. WHERE and HOW would she have been abducted?? There's several ways from Norwich area to Destiny mall -- she could have taken 23 to Cortland, then gotten on I-81, or taken 23 to 26 to 80, and then either gotten on I-81 or 92. But any of her routes would have put her on roads that had a fair amount of travel. I don't think she would have been foolish enough to pick up a random hitchhiker. So...it would mean she'd have had to be forced off the road somehow...but how, without anyone else traveling on 23 and/ or 26 noticing? And how many serial killers operate that way? Don't they more typically prey on women who are somehow at risk? Such as a prostitute or a college co-ed that had a little too much to drink at a bar? Or...they might prey on a woman who was parked in an out-of-the-way place or maybe jogging through a lonely area. But Jennifer would have had no reason to do that on her way to a shopping trip.

3) Jennifer's body and van were left in areas previously associated with murder and violence, and her phone was left in an area known by locals to have poor/no reception. All of this suggests the work of a local. And...what local would want to kill Jennifer? She had no known enemies, and she wasn't the type to develop enemies -- she was soft-spoken, pleasant, very domestic, devoted to her family. And even if it were a local sexual predator/killer -- why choose Jennifer for a victim? On most days of the week, she would be home with her work-at-home husband, or out doing stuff with her kids. How would they know she was heading out on her own that morning?

 

[Abigail]

The 2nd problem with the above scenario is logistics.

Jen's body was found on Center Road. Her van was found at Plank Road Manor about 11 miles away.

1) So, let's consider the suggestion that she may have been abducted and held captive (perhaps in one of those seasonal abodes on Center Road?), and somehow managed to escape, but collapsed on Center Road and perished. This would definitely point to a local -- someone who had access to a nearby cabin or some sort of building. Problems: why was she targeted? how was she abducted without anyone noticing? As BettyLou4u mentioned, why would her phone have been disposed of so close? And...if the perp drove her van the 11 or so miles to Plank Road Manor, how did he get back to Center Road or wherever she was being held? So...we have the problem of logistics with the van.

2) An alternative scenario would be that she was abducted and held captive somewhere near where the van was left at the apartments -- either AT the apartments, or close enough for the perp to walk back to where she was. But that would have been very close to town, if not in the town of Norwich. So...if she managed to escape, why would she not go INTO town to get help -- why go the opposite direction? And, as Dansmom mentioned, how could she have gone very far at all (naked) without being noticed?

 

[thefox]

I cannot believe the Chenango County locals are not in an uproar about the murderer on the loose in their county.

Because if no arrest has been made, no person of interest. Who is the murderer? Who will they murder next?

Gotta have a cod before you can have a murder correct?