Observations from the Video on TDB

[otg]

If israeli shirt fibers were on the outside of the panty crotch then maybe she had on the pink barbie gown and the new big panties and he carried her on his hip. If they were on the inside of the panty crotch then maybe he put those on her.

Actually the shirt fibers were on the INSIDE of the panty crotch. They could have only gotten in there if he handled them, took them out of the package, pulled them up, down or both.

I don't know if fibers on the inside versus on the outside even matter. I mean, all you've gotta do is take a look at KoldKase's avatar and know that with the panty crotch "flapping in the wind", the inside was just as exposed to the elements as the outside. (Like anyone would really believe she actually wore those.)
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[Flatlander]

I do understand what you're saying, UKGuy - fibers contribute to the total evidentiary picture. I've just never found fiber evidence very convincing in any criminal case, not just this one - since it isn't practical (or even possible) to test the clothing or carpets of everyone who's ever come in contact with crime victims. But your point is well taken, honestly.

Fiber evidence is sometimes the only thing linking crimes in order to be solved:
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/forensics/trace/1.html

http://www.criminaljusticeschools.org/blog/10-famous-cases-cracked-by-forensics

 

[Bonnette]

Fiber evidence is sometimes the only thing linking crimes in order to be solved:
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/forensics/trace/1.html

http://www.criminaljusticeschools.org/blog/10-famous-cases-cracked-by-forensics

I know, Flatlander, it's just that I am uncomfortable with the weight it is given sometimes...but I don't have any expertise in this area, it was just an observation and probably an ignorant one! Thanks for those links, I've bookmarked them.

 

[DeeDee249]

Then this would make me wonder where did the beaver hair that was found on the duct tape come from? Wonder from where the wind bloweth that night?

Also how did PR sweater fibers end up in the ligature and the paint tray. I don't think wind had anything to do with that. Or JR shirt fibers found in the underwear of JB.

There were some unusual fibers found on JB that tied other things into the crime, i.e, brown bag, white paper, dark fibers .... you think maybe the radiator in the house that night blew them around somehow? I don't know, just asking.

SuperDave, you know anything about the dark fiber's origin?

The beaver hair (if it was beaver) could have come from a few things. Patsy was said to have fur-trimmed boots (she "couldn't find them" to give to LE) as well as several fur coats of various pelts. If could have also come from the paintbrush. I never saw that the brush end was tested to see what kind of fur it was. Artists brushes are usually natural fur which is best for watercolors and oils rather than synthetic materials.

The brown paper bag fibers likely came from the brown paper bags that were places over her hands (sometimes they are put on the feet too, standard procedure) by the coroner's forensics team when they arrived at the house. The bags on her hands can be seen in a crime photo, showing her lying on the living room rug. You can't see her whole body- her face is turned away, but you can see part of her hair and cheek as well as one arm and hand in the paper bag.

Radiators do not "blow" fibers. The heat from a radiator does just that- radiates - with no air pushing it. The cast iron of the radiator itself heats the room. The Rs may have had forced air heat too, but believe me, the fibers would not "blow" THROUGH HER CLOTHES or INSIDE HER PANTIES. Doesn't happen.

The "dark" fibers could have had any one of a few sources. JR's shirt had been mentioned, but as they already tested it against fibers in the panties, I can't imagine they wouldn't have tried against other dark fibers as well. They knew it was wool, they knew Patsy's jacket was acrylic fleece. I believe some of the dark fibers were said to be cotton. There was a dark navy terry bathrobe belonging to JR found in the den- an odd place to be sure, for a bathrobe. There may have been dark towels in the house as well.

The white paper could have been something just stuck on the carpets somewhere. Not EVERY bit found on JB had something to do with the crime.
But for the fibers of the parents' clothing to be on the body of a child killed the day they wore those exact garments AND to be found on items like the duct tape, panties, garrote knot and paint tote, all items specific to the crime, puts to rest any claims that fibers from people who lived there would be expected to be there. Not on THOSE items, they wouldn't.

 

[Flatlander]

The beaver hair (if it was beaver) could have come from a few things. Patsy was said to have fur-trimmed boots (she "couldn't find them" to give to LE) as well as several fur coats of various pelts. If could have also come from the paintbrush. I never saw that the brush end was tested to see what kind of fur it was. Artists brushes are usually natural fur which is best for watercolors and oils rather than synthetic materials.

The brown paper bag fibers likely came from the brown paper bags that were places over her hands (sometimes they are put on the feet too, standard procedure) by the coroner's forensics team when they arrived at the house. The bags on her hands can be seen in a crime photo, showing her lying on the living room rug. You can't see her whole body- her face is turned away, but you can see part of her hair and cheek as well as one arm and hand in the paper bag.

Radiators do not "blow" fibers. The heat from a radiator does just that- radiates - with no air pushing it. The cast iron of the radiator itself heats the room. The Rs may have had forced air heat too, but believe me, the fibers would not "blow" THROUGH HER CLOTHES or INSIDE HER PANTIES. Doesn't happen.

The "dark" fibers could have had any one of a few sources. JR's shirt had been mentioned, but as they already tested it against fibers in the panties, I can't imagine they wouldn't have tried against other dark fibers as well. They knew it was wool, they knew Patsy's jacket was acrylic fleece. I believe some of the dark fibers were said to be cotton. There was a dark navy terry bathrobe belonging to JR found in the den- an odd place to be sure, for a bathrobe. There may have been dark towels in the house as well.

The white paper could have been something just stuck on the carpets somewhere. Not EVERY bit found on JB had something to do with the crime.
But for the fibers of the parents' clothing to be on the body of a child killed the day they wore those exact garments AND to be found on items like the duct tape, panties, garrote knot and paint tote, all items specific to the crime, puts to rest any claims that fibers from people who lived there would be expected to be there. Not on THOSE items, they wouldn't.

Totally Agreed. Patsy did walk out of the house that morning with a fur coat on, purse and who know's possibly fur boots. For some reason or another I had pictured in my mind that JB shirt had dark blue fibers and the brown paper sack which I always related to the brown paper bag found under JARS's bed. I sort of was thinking that the Duvet cover in the suitcase had been used at one point in time to clean her and transport her. Oh yes, there were those green pieces of garland from the spiral staircase in her hair as well. Thanks for your post DeeDee249.

 

[DeeDee249]

Totally Agreed. Patsy did walk out of the house that morning with a fur coat on, purse and who know's possibly fur boots. For some reason or another I had pictured in my mind that JB shirt had dark blue fibers and the brown paper sack which I always related to the brown paper bag found under JARS's bed. I sort of was thinking that the Duvet cover in the suitcase had been used at one point in time to clean her and transport her. Oh yes, there were those green pieces of garland from the spiral staircase in her hair as well. Thanks for your post DeeDee249.

There was another brown paper bag that contained the thick hemp rope that was found under JAR's bed. There is some difference as to whether the rope was kept in the bag under the bed, or of it was put in a brown paper evidence bag.
I don't think the comforter/duvet was used to wipe her for one reason- that comforter was tested for body fluids and only semen was found. If it had been used to wipe her, there would have been JB's blood on it as well.

 

[UKGuy]

There was another brown paper bag that contained the thick hemp rope that was found under JAR's bed. There is some difference as to whether the rope was kept in the bag under the bed, or of it was put in a brown paper evidence bag.
I don't think the comforter/duvet was used to wipe her for one reason- that comforter was tested for body fluids and only semen was found. If it had been used to wipe her, there would have been JB's blood on it as well.

DeeDee249,
Perfect Murder Perfect Town, Excerpt

Arndt told Eller that before the internal examination began, Tom Trujillo had passed a black fluorescent lamp over JonBenét’s naked body. This would reveal traces of semen—if there were any—not visible to the naked eye. The light also revealed numerous traces of dark fibers scattered over her pubic area, similar to fibers found on the outside of JonBenét’s outer garment. Under the black light, the coroner saw a residue on the child’s upper thigh that could have come from semen, though residue from blood and even from certain kinds of soaps could appear the same way under the black light. Nevertheless, the detectives conjectured that they were semen traces.

In addition, JonBenét’s underpants bore stains that appeared to be blood. The corresponding areas of her skin in the pubic area, however, showed no matching stains. The coroner told the police that the blood smears on the skin and the fibers found in the folds of the labia indicated that the child’s pubic area had been wiped with a cloth. The blood smears also contained traces of fibers.

No rope fibers found on JonBenet. I guess at that point they never knew wiped with a cloth. was actually Johns Israeli shirt, as alleged?

And some people think those fibers arrived there by secondary transfer, duh!


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[Flatlander]

There was another brown paper bag that contained the thick hemp rope that was found under JAR's bed. There is some difference as to whether the rope was kept in the bag under the bed, or of it was put in a brown paper evidence bag.
I don't think the comforter/duvet was used to wipe her for one reason- that comforter was tested for body fluids and only semen was found. If it had been used to wipe her, there would have been JB's blood on it as well.

Then the question still remains: where did the blue fibers found on her body come from?
As for the brown bag found under JARS bed it seems interesting that the police photos seem to draw our attention to the fact that the bed skirt was lifted up where the bag was found. Also I wonder why all those drawers were open in the JARS bathroom. Wonder what was kept in there?

With the forensic evidence that is available today surely they know who commited the crime. I am sure they knew from the get go. Interesting how money can buy you out of the a lot of situations in the judicial system; therefore it makes me believe all the more that BR was the perp.

 

[BOESP]

Then the question still remains: where did the blue fibers found on her body come from?
As for the brown bag found under JARS bed it seems interesting that the police photos seem to draw our attention to the fact that the bed skirt was lifted up where the bag was found. Also I wonder why all those drawers were open in the JARS bathroom. Wonder what was kept in there?

With the forensic evidence that is available today surely they know who commited the crime. I am sure they knew from the get go. Interesting how money can buy you out of the a lot of situations in the judicial system; therefore it makes me believe all the more that BR was the perp.

Flatlander, I may very well be wrong, but I believe the open drawers in JAR's room were thought to be where the plastic or vinyl gloves were kept and the drawers were open, perhaps, because Patsy frantically searched for the gloves there.

When this first happened a group on another forum discussed the blue fibers. We thought they may have come from John's blue bathrobe but that is total speculation.

 

[DeeDee249]

I know how naive and stupid this might sound, but fiber evidence (on its own, anyway) doesn't impress me much because I have cats. Those little wisps of cat coat are everywhere in my house, my clothes, my eyes, etc. All it takes is an air current to distribute them in the strangest places. "The wind bloweth where it listeth"! LOL.

I had cats too, so I know what you mean, BUT- this wasn't CAT fur, this was fibers from clothing they wore the night of the crime and found in areas that were part of the crime.

Fibers ENTWINED in a knot didn't float there. Fibers INSIDE a panty crotch next to a dead child's violated vagina didn't float there either. And on the INSIDE of the duct tape that was pulled from her lips. These fibers weren't just laying around. They were INSIDE places where they couldn't have landed if you blew them with a fan.
The fact is that fiber evidence holds up in court. And if this case ever saw the inside of a courtroom, the fiber evidence would be very damning.

 

[DeeDee249]

Flatlander, I may very well be wrong, but I believe the open drawers in JAR's room were thought to be where the plastic or vinyl gloves were kept and the drawers were open, perhaps, because Patsy frantically searched for the gloves there.

When this first happened a group on another forum discussed the blue fibers. We thought they may have come from John's blue bathrobe but that is total speculation.

The gloves were kept in a bathroom, I believe. THOSE drawers were found open and police questioned Patsy about them in one of her interviews. Patsy may have said she used them when dyeing her hair.

 

[DeeDee249]

Then the question still remains: where did the blue fibers found on her body come from?
As for the brown bag found under JARS bed it seems interesting that the police photos seem to draw our attention to the fact that the bed skirt was lifted up where the bag was found. Also I wonder why all those drawers were open in the JARS bathroom. Wonder what was kept in there?

With the forensic evidence that is available today surely they know who commited the crime. I am sure they knew from the get go. Interesting how money can buy you out of the a lot of situations in the judicial system; therefore it makes me believe all the more that BR was the perp.

I believe there is still confusion about the rope found under the bed in JAR's room (which adjoined JB's). The rope was placed in a brown paper EVIDENCE bag by police and may not have actually been in a brown paper bag when it was found.

 

[Flatlander]

I believe there is still confusion about the rope found under the bed in JAR's room (which adjoined JB's). The rope was placed in a brown paper EVIDENCE bag by police and may not have actually been in a brown paper bag when it was found.

[ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showpost.php?p=60226&postcount=6"]Forums For Justice - View Single Post - THE TRUTH About Judge Carnes' Decision - A Documented Rebuttal[/ame]

Dust ruffle out of place:
http://www.acandyrose.com/05102003CourtTVSecLook-s023.jpg
(0502-23) LOU SMIT: Take a look at the ruffle on the bed. JOHN RAMSEY: It's disturbed. And I didn't look under the bed. It's pulled out. LOU SMIT: Is that something that would be usual or unusual? JOHN RAMSEY: Well, it may be a bit unusual. That room didn't get used much and the cleaning ladies would clean it and make it neat and Patsy used it to fold laundry, on top of the bed, but it didn't get used. So you know, somebody would have straightened that out when they cleaned the room, I am sure. It's a little unusual I would say.