observing casey non reactions

[Oakley]

I wanted to bump this thread. This is disturbing to me. Casey is listening to all this info today about human decomp, it is referrring to her baby. HER BABY ! How can she not be upset ? I am sick over some of the testimony, knowing that Dr. Vass is speaking about little Caylee's decomposing body. Seriously, she is disassociating. How ?? Can meds have this effect ? She is capable of emotion. She LOVED Tony L. How can she turn on and off her emotions, especially when she is listening to the horrors of what happened to Caylee.? But she sheds tears about other issues. Something is not right .

Sociopaths are only able to emote for themselves, never for others. When she 'cries,' she is going through the motions- wiping her eyes mechanically, but no tears. She's learned this by observing others with genuine emotions. Ever notice how she studies her mom in a very puzzled way when Cindy cries? True grief for others is foreign to her, and she displays contempt for others that have and show empathy (typical sociopathic behavior.) She does cry tears when it is about her, for example when she gets 'frushtrated' or when she is feeling herself to be the 'victim.' JMO

 

[2goldfish]

well when they talked about children decomposing in trunks I teared up which is more than I saw from ICA.

 

[txsvicki]

She doesn't seem to be acting sad or contrite enough for someone who has just claimed that her daughter drowned, sitting in jail for 3 years, and putting everyone through hoops. The decomp testimony doesn't faze her since she is claiming that she didn't do a thing. However, she has a twinge ever so often as if having a tummy ache and it looks like a girdle could be uncomfortable at times. Casey really listens and watches people when they talk.

 

[janine]

People keep referencing Scott Peterson when they do a comparison to how KC acts but what about Mark Hacking? He did nearly the same thing in terms of killing his wife and pretending she was missing- He had made up a life that didn't exist either.... He eventually confessed unlike these other two ever will, but I think mostly because of self serving reasons. Tried to play insane...

http://crime.about.com/od/current/a/hacking.htm
I think he belongs in the same discussion, at least.

 

[ProfessionaLurker]

Compare her with someone like Andrea Yates....there was someone who had TRUE mental illness, IMO.
She is still in a mental hospital, and from what we've heard, she repents daily and BELIEVES she deserves to be locked up forever.

Even Susan Smith was pretty good at faking the tears. But I believe now she is sorry, and that she knows what she did was wrong and gruesome. She admitted what she did.

I think Scott Peterson and Casey Anthony are one and the same. Deny until the end of time. SODDI. They are all out to get me. They say Peterson had adapted to prison. His last mugshot showed me he now looks like a crazed loony. Hopefully Casey turns out the same when she is on death row.

BBM - :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[Sleuth5]

IMO, I'm sorry..I'm a nurse too and I can tell you that I cry when I see murdered or dead children....There is no excuse for coldness when a child in your family is murdered....whether you did it or not. That is called a personality disorder...psychopath, sociopath, narcissistic disorder, or borderline personality disorder. NO FEELINGS when NORMAL people would have them! I am a psychiatric professional for 30 years.

ITA. I am actually a professional historian, but I've had to deal with narcissists on both sides of my family. As I've said here before, nothing about her indifference to others (save herself) and her endless lying, manipulation, and destructive behavior is news to me. I am quite glad indeed that I don't have any sociopaths in my life, but this lady is one if ever there was such a thing.

No, I'm not judging her by some set of "normal" standards. I'd say from my perspective the evidence speaks for itself.

MOO

 

[Quiche]

People keep referencing Scott Peterson when they do a comparison to how KC acts but what about Mark Hacking? He did nearly the same thing in terms of killing his wife and pretending she was missing- He had made up a life that didn't exist either.... He eventually confessed unlike these other two ever will, but I think mostly because of self serving reasons. Tried to play insane...

http://crime.about.com/od/current/a/hacking.htm
I think he belongs in the same discussion, at least.

Yeah, that Mark H. guy had a full on fake life too, one that was hitting the end of the hall, iirc. That was an awful case.

 

[Coldpizza]

I was having a discussion with DH tonight in reference to death vs LWOP and read him a post from 2010 of mine. But it does tie in with this discussion. He always refers to sociopaths as viewing people around them as a piece of furniture. They move them as they want their surroundings to change. They smile at their results of the new surroundings as it suits them, but they will get angry if anyone tries to rearrange their surroundings. Everyone in a sociopaths life is there to please them. They are made of stone and furniture, thus having very limited reactions that are familiar to most of us.

 

[Sleuth5]

I was having a discussion with DH tonight in reference to death vs LWOP and read him a post from 2010 of mine. But it does tie in with this discussion. He always refers to sociopaths as viewing people around them as a piece of furniture. They move them as they want their surroundings to change. They smile at their results of the new surroundings as it suits them, but they will get angry if anyone tries to rearrange their surroundings. Everyone in a sociopaths life is there to please them. They are made of stone and furniture, thus having very limited reactions that are familiar to most of us.

ITA. Seems spot on with ICA. Consider the way she treated her daughter -- the overdone accessorizing, very prop-like it struck me at times. She seems to be as much of the scenery as anything else in those photos with ICA and her toothsome pose.

 

[A_News_Junkie]

I wish a talented WS member could post a side-by-side collage of screenshots of ICA <WITH JURY PRESENT> versus <WHEN NO JURY IS PRESENT.> The blatant contrast in posture, demeanor, facial expression, energy level, body language, gestures, mood, everything... is like night and day. Unbelievable. What an act.

KC's bizarre lack of normal human reaction is HUGE, and has been a problem for the defense. It clearly paints her as a sociopath. JB has tried to account for it by attributing it to PTSD or a dissociative reaction to having been "abused." ICA has obviously been coached to keep still and keep a straight face in court. He is counting on this tactic, plus keeping out most of her "prior bad acts." This woman is a monster who has left a wake of destruction, despair, and broken hearts behind her, and simply could not care less.

Her DT have had witnesses describe KC's lack of reaction, and her "flat affect," and have pointed out her similar demeanor as she sits there at the defense table "on trial for her life." Wouldn't it be something if the State could petition to introduce new evidence in response to this? Because all this jury has seen is KC's silent, pouty boo-boo face, her "oh no" headshake in response to damning evidence, an oddly raised eyebrow, and a few strategic semi-verklempt moments. The tiny little vulnerable defendant, hands in her lap, frumpy and meek and serious... that is what they have seen.

Can you imagine how eye-opening it would be to show the jury a one- or two- minute video montage of moments captured in court before they are brought in, and once they are safely out of sight? That is when she unleashes the "real" Casey: The animated behavior. The intense rapid nodding and sky-high eyebrow raises, the flashes of anger and disdain and amusement. The toddler-level meltdowns. The jabbing and slicing and expansive gestures with hands and arms. The leaning, the reaching, the poking, the pointing. The come-here finger crooking. The 'I'm in charge' swagger. The flirtatious smile and wide eyes. The giggling. The big grins. The hip-rolling 'I'm a celebrity' strut.

ICA instantly lights up like a malignant Christmas tree outside the presence of the people who will decide her fate. I wish there was some way for them to see that.

Fast basic job....but here is an attempt at such!

 

[Mohabi]

ICA instantly lights up like a malignant Christmas tree outside the presence of the people who will decide her fate. I wish there was some way for them to see that.

SNipped by me.

"ICA instantly lights up like a malignant Christmas tree".

***ABSOLUTELY*** AWESOME COMMENT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(I've never seen a malignant Christmas tree, but now I know what one looks like!)

 

[knt]

Fast basic job....but here is an attempt at such!

You did an AMAZING job! Thanks!

 

[QuietStorm]

Is it very hard to sit there and watch, LML?

PS- you can't imagine how unemotional a sociopath is. IMO, Casey is probably ticked off that she's still has this little itsy bitsy problem...cause she is so past this. But, just you wait for the waterworks come trial time...sociopaths will imitate what's "normal" and I'm sure she's being groomed as we speak. It just never will be "natural" for her.

My son is schizophrenic - one personality, thank goodness. But he's also psychotic and gets horrible mean when he's off medication. Part of his schizophrenia is the inability to feel emotions the way others do. No matter how much I want him to, he'll probably never remember my birthday, mother's day, Christmas, with any real emotion. He has emotions for some things and/or people when he's on his meds, but even then not so deep. I don't think KC is schizophrenic, but females start showing symptoms later than males from what I've been told. My son was in his late teens but has been problematic all his life. Raised just the same as his sister, but he is totally different. The saving grace is that he is not also a sociopath because that could be thrown in the mix as well.

He has hit others when not on meds but on them or off them he could not plan a murder. He might hurt someone to the point where it could happen, but his thought processes are too scattered to plan a murder or a coverup.

That said, again, I don't think KC is schizophrenic. I do think she is a sociopath and her blank demeanor is IMHO an act for the audience (jury, press, whomever). Here's a good website.

http://withoutempathy.blogspot.com/

ullhair:

 

[LadyL]

the more I read, the more confused I get about what may be wrong with her

but someone said something earlier in this thread about how one can feel the evil in a person and that struck me to the core

I don't even necessarily believe in evil in the traditional sense but I know that I have felt that deep sense that someone emanates hatred/evil/lack of a soul ... I've even felt in random strangers & steered clear of them

I'm really interested in the psych evaluations but I think those won't come in until the penalty phase?

 

[Pugnolia]

I believe ICA's non-reaction is well planned and purposeful. She turns her personality on and off for her benefit. Stone-faced stoic demeanor for the Jury, (with a twitch or twinge here and there), and animated and interactive for when the Jury is not present.

As a probable Sociopath and as one who probably has a host of interlocking personality disorders, she knows just what she is doing, IMO.

I have a friend in her early 30's who reminds me very much of ICA. She is masterful at turning her expressions and behaviors and tears on a dime, depending on the situation and the persona she wishes to convey. She has turned to me following a phone call to someone else, during which she has cried and carried on, and with a complete dry eye says, 'I was good, wasn't I?'

She spins wild and elaborate stories to get sympathy, which she thrives on. Once she told me that her brother's baby had just died at five months gestation, and was pulling her hair, slumped to the ground, and screamed, 'You just don't understand, he was FAMILY!' The baby did not die. When asked why she told such an outrageous lie, she said she wanted me to feel sorry for her.

So IMO I can see that ICA is acting, based on my observations first hand. It suits and behooves her to appear as if in shock, in denial, wrongly accused, a victim, a saddened zoned-out and almost comatose figure.

She's acting.

:boohoo:

 

[Mariah]

IMOO she feels no grief or guilt. ICA has justified to herself that what she has done was for the best. Just as she has done with stealing and lying, other people "made" her do it. Its the oldest excuse in the book for personality disordered..its always someone elses fault. They feel nothing unless it is about themselves. She reminds me of Ted Bundy

 

[Justin Tyme]

IMOO she feels no grief or guilt. ICA has justified to herself that what she has done was for the best. Just as she has done with stealing and lying, other people "made" her do it. Its the oldest excuse in the book for personality disordered..its always someone elses fault. They feel nothing unless it is about themselves. She reminds me of Ted Bundy

Both Evil. Just a different kind of evil. Ted Bundy didn't kill his own child.

 

[Plumeria5]

I posted this in the sidebar but now I see there is a special thread for Casey's reactions or lack thereof. During the Dr.'s testimony today when he said he would try not to be too morbid, Casey really raised her brows. Then when he discussed stage 2 bloating, she looked away in a stare almost like she was visually what she had seen. Anyone else notice that?

 

[Justin Tyme]

Fast basic job....but here is an attempt at such!

Let's just see that again shall we. Great job! THANK YOU FOR PUTTING THAT TOGETHER!

 

[Justin Tyme]

the more I read, the more confused I get about what may be wrong with her

but someone said something earlier in this thread about how one can feel the evil in a person and that struck me to the core

I don't even necessarily believe in evil in the traditional sense but I know that I have felt that deep sense that someone emanates hatred/evil/lack of a soul ... I've even felt in random strangers & steered clear of them

I'm really interested in the psych evaluations but I think those won't come in until the penalty phase?

IIRC correctly, they won't come in. My guess would be because EVIL is not recognized as a mental issue. EVIL is a ... :waitasec: ...before I say anything more, perhaps I should read up on what EVIL is classified as. hmm....I'm wondering if EVIL is learned or that you're born with it.