GUILTY OH - Johnny Clarke, 21, & Lisa Straub, 20, murdered, Springfield Twp, 31 Jan 2011

[LadyL]

so it seems Johnny & Lisa had already arrived back home

& Johnny was on his way out the door to pick up the girl he was on the phone with?

I wonder if someone followed them back from Lisa's work ... wonder if there's surveillance cameras at that business, particularly the parking lot

some things don't make sense though - according to the article linked, Johnny's mother said in the 3rd 911 call that she saw her son tied up in the basement yet later told the media she did not look in the window

she also says she believes her son knew his attackers b/c he let them in the house but the girl who heard him say "who are you?" and the supposition that he was leaving to pick up said girl contradicts the mother's belief

I'm sure it's just poor reporting (as per usual) ... or a quite natural confusion in a state of grief

 

[belimom]

With the phone call from the friend, stating that the phone dropped and Johnny saying 'who are you' and 'what to you want', I really don't understand this statement at all:

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110202/NEWS16/102020307

"Everyone was walking around the house. Everyone was looking in, trying to get them to answer the door," Detective Stooksbury said. "There was no probable cause to kick that door in. There was no probable cause to believe there was something wrong inside that home."

I can (kind of) understand LE not doing much when someone just hasn't been to work or something like that, but to actually have a phone call? They should have gone in, IMHO.

I think if they had gone in as soon as the mom called, they may have still been alive.

 

[SuziQ]

The friend who went to the house is very lucky she didn't end up dead. This is a horrible case. Who happens to have duck tape on them unless they came to the house prepared. I guess they could have located duck tape at the house. But if there house is anything like mine, the duck tape is never where it's supposed to be. After an hour looking for it, you throw in the towel and go buy another roll. And next time you rinse and repeat the above scenario with that roll.

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110202/NEWS16/102020307

(snip)
She said the friend who was expecting Mr. Clarke and Miss Straub to pick her up that night tried repeatedly to reach them by phone and text message, but could not get either of them. She went to the house, rang the doorbell repeatedly, but got no answer. A friend of hers eventually called Mr. Clarke's mother, who then called 911.

 

[Benny08]

This is just a weird case. Lots of jumbled info. They're in the basement, no, now the kitchen. I see them through the window, no, I never looked in a window.

It's possible the person or persons were wearing masks of some sort. That way Johnny could have known the perp(s) but not have been able to recognize who it was.

I keep going back and forth on whether it was more than one person involved. It would seem difficult for one person to duct tape two adults.. unless maybe a gun was pulled out and they were forced to tie each other up. But if you have a weapon and intend to kill why on earth would you choose to kill them by bags/suffocation? I mean if you kill someone that way doesn't it take a little while? You'd have to hang out and make sure those bags were sealed all the way and make sure there was no more breathing.

Didn't the BTK killer do a few kills using the bag on head method?

 

[Sonya610]

It would seem difficult for one person to duct tape two adults.. unless maybe a gun was pulled out and they were forced to tie each other up. But if you have a weapon and intend to kill why on earth would you choose to kill them by bags/suffocation? I mean if you kill someone that way doesn't it take a little while? You'd have to hang out and make sure those bags were sealed all the way and make sure there was no more breathing.

Didn't the BTK killer do a few kills using the bag on head method?

Yeah the BTK killer did, though this doesn't sound like it was sexually motivated. Also depends on whether the plastic bags were black or clear (if it were sexual they would almost certainly be clear).

The perp probably did have a gun and he probably brought his own duct tape. I didn't get a feel for the timeline but unless he had them tied up for hours and got really creative I just don't see him finding the duct tape and plastic bags sitting around either.

As far as why use a bag instead of shooting them. Gunfire could draw attention to the scene. He might have wanted to torture the victims out of revenge or to get information on money in the house etc... It might also just be a more comfortable way of killing for the perp especially if the bags were black (less personal, don't have to look at their faces, but of course if their mouths weren't duct taped it would still involve pleading and noise).

Since the cops were supposedly out there after the first call I find it hard to believe the killer/s broke in randomly and had several hours to leisurely torture their victims, in fact it might have been the police presence that caused this method of demise. Gotta keep the victims quiet so slap duct tape on their mouths and bag em.

 

[SuziQ]

The perp could have chosen a time to rob the house when no one was around. But they chose to go right up and ring the doorbell. Along with bringing duct tape they seem to have been planning on someone being at home.

Has there been anything reported missing from the home? If there was a safe maybe the perps needed the kids for the combination. However, the kids may not have had that information and the perps left empty handed.

 

[colette]

The perp could have chosen a time to rob the house when no one was around. But they chose to go right up and ring the doorbell. Along with bringing duct tape they seem to have been planning on someone being at home.

I don't think the killers rang the door bell. From the sound of the phone call with the friend, Johnny was walking out the door when they were attacked. He said they were leaving right now to pick her up....then the phone drops and he's asking "who are you and what do you want". To me it sounds like they were attacked leaving the home and were forced back inside.

 

[Sonya610]

I don't think the killers rang the door bell. From the sound of the phone call with the friend, Johnny was walking out the door when they were attacked. He said they were leaving right now to pick her up....then the phone drops and he's asking "who are you and what do you want". To me it sounds like they were attacked leaving the home and were forced back inside.

Mrs. Vasquez-Clarke said she believes her son knew their attackers because he let them in the house. She said she's upset that deputies did not find him and Ms. Straub when she first called 911, but now she's just hoping they find their killers.

"Justice needs to be served. These people need to get capital murder for premeditated murder and get the death penalty. That's what I want," she said. "This wasn't random. This was premeditated and planned. They knew them."

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110202/NEWS16/102020307

Read the bottom of the article. I always thought it seemed "personal" and not that random (especially if they were leaving the house talking on the phone and then said "who are you...". A burglar would have wanted them to leave!)

I think these kids were involved in something or involved with some questionable people. Most mothers wouldn't say "they think their kid knew the attacker" without reason. Most would just assume it was some nut with a gun that grabbed them. The mother also says "these people". These people??? Not one person but a group of them? Have the police found evidence that there was more than one person?

The victims last known statements also sound suspicious... 'Who are you? What do you want? What are you doing here?' That doesn't sound like someone surprised by some random assailant, it sounds like someone that may ALREADY SUSPECT why the assailant is there. I am thinking drug/money related, sounds like the kid peeved off the wrong people.

 

[belimom]

............

The victims last known statements also sound suspicious... 'Who are you? What do you want? What are you doing here?' That doesn't sound like someone surprised by some random assailant, it sounds like someone that may ALREADY SUSPECT why the assailant is there. I am thinking drug/money related, sounds like the kid peeved off the wrong people.

I agree about knowing the perp, maybe - OR at least the perp knowing who THEY were. But I also think that somewhere between the friend's conversation with Johnny and then the friend telling his mother about it - that a few words/phrases/emotions were lost. He may have in fact screamed first or whatever.

I'm very suspicious about a couple of things here. Someone knew they were there. They were trying to send a message to someone, IMHO. I wonder about the parents and any business connections or something that even the parents may not be aware of...?

When I was in college, I had a friend whose father snitched on the mob. He came home one day to find his wife brutally murdered in their kitchen. The brothers were sent to tell the daughter in person so that she would not be alone when she got the news. While they were enroute, the father killed himself over the guilt (or, at least it was ruled a suicide)...

Very tragic situation. But my point in sharing it is that I think it happens more than we know. I am not implying that the situation here has any connections at all to organized crime. I'm just trying to figure out why someone may do something like this and if where the connection is between the families, the kids, and the perp.

 

[less0305]

A comment to the article on the Toledo link says something about a "sick ex-idolator" who had a crush on the girl and that they both knew of this sick person, but just blew him off and goes on to say something about "if I can't have you, no one will," type of situation.

 

[belimom]

A comment to the article on the Toledo link says something about a "sick ex-idolator" who had a crush on the girl and that they both knew of this sick person, but just blew him off and goes on to say something about "if I can't have you, no one will," type of situation.

I saw that but I don't know - it doesn't seem to fit the crime, kwim? Both victims treated the same way.... seems like if the person wanted her and hated him, they would have treated them differently. Of course this is just my own layman's opinion. MOO

 

[Sonya610]

I'm very suspicious about a couple of things here. Someone knew they were there. They were trying to send a message to someone, IMHO. I wonder about the parents and any business connections or something that even the parents may not be aware of...?

Well apparently the mother knows something! During the first 911 call I thought it was odd she kept saying "my son" and not "the kids, they, my son and his girlfriend". That stood out before I read the other stuff.

It was like she was far more worried about her SON than the girlfriend even when it wasn't clear it was serious. Initially I thought maybe just an hysterically over-reacting mom, but now with these other statements I wonder if she knew the SON might be targeted which is why she was more concerned about him.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I think this was a home invasion gone wrong.

I think Johnny turned around while he was talking on the phone and saw someone standing inside (maybe right inside of the doorway). They probably had not locked up the home for the night yet since he was supposed to go pick up the other girl.

Imo, it is someone that knew the Straubs would be away. I envision the perps being younger......possibly late teens .......20s maybe.

The duct tape could have been found inside the Straub home that was used to bind them up and the plastic bags used also may have come from the home. I really think there was more than one perp there.

We have always heard that a mothers intuition is a powerful thing. I wish the police had entered the first time they came.

My heart goes out to both families and both victims.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

A comment to the article on the Toledo link says something about a "sick ex-idolator" who had a crush on the girl and that they both knew of this sick person, but just blew him off and goes on to say something about "if I can't have you, no one will," type of situation.

If that rumor is not a rumor then it shouldn't be hard at all for LE to traced that down.

I don't think it was an obsessed stalker but we will see.

Johnny acted like he didnt know who in the heck this person was or why they were there.

IMO

 

[Sonya610]

I think this was a home invasion gone wrong.

So you think the mothers claims about it being a premeditated and targeted murder are based on nothing? Also her comments referring to "them"? Maybe the lady is hysterical and just imagining things but I think she knows something.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

So you think the mothers claims about it being a premeditated and targeted murder are based on nothing? Also her comments referring to "them"? Maybe the lady is hysterical and just imagining things but I think she knows something.

I really dont know, Sonya.

I can see why the mother would possibly think that was the case and it may be but I just dont see anything that convinces me of that at this time.

Johnny didnt seem to know the person or persons imo but I guess someone could have hired someone else to do the crimes.

Whomever did this..... I hope they are quickly caught.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

As for as using 'them' I use that myself when I am only talking about one person not a group of people.

Just the way most talk in the South, I have found.

"These people" is also used when someone doesn't know if it is one or more than one person.

IMO

 

[Sonya610]

Johnny didnt seem to know the person or persons imo but I guess someone could have hired someone else to do the crimes.

When the mothers said "these people" I started thinking drug related. First thing everyone suspects is some lone male nut, not "these people".

If you run afoul of M13 you probably won't recognize the killer, they have new recruits that want to prove themselves with these jobs as well as seasoned killers already on the payroll.

 

[Freshbait]

I'm so glad to be able to post here. I've taken alot of interest in this case, I only live a couple miles away. I have 2 scenarios that I'd like to share. Number 1, I think she may have been stalked. She was a young, attractive woman, by all accounts very friendly & always with a smile. She came into contact with the public alot as she was a waitress. If she had been stalked it's possible that she didn't even know it & this would explain why Johnny didn't know the person he encountered at the door but that this person would know alot about her, or as the case is, both of them.

Secondly I find the actions of the female friend on the phone with Johnny very suspect. She talked to him at 11 pm when this 1st began yet didn't contact anyone (authorities or family) for hours later? Not only that she went over to the house alone to check things out? I don't know about anyone else but the last things that she heard Johnny say would cause me alarm & I don't think I would travel over there ALONE for fear of walking into something that could cause harm to me. Could this possibly be some type of set up? I'd really hate to think so.

A couple of things I noticed that are interesting: In the last 911 call the mother states that her son is tied up & all he has are pants on. I find that odd as the female friend stated that he was on his way out the door when he dropped the phone. Monday night it was bitterly cold & snowed 3-4 inches here. I don't see anyone walking out the door half dressed which means at some point he chose or was forced to take clothing off. That's odd. Another thing the mother said on the last 911 call that caught my attention was that they both (Johnny and Lisa) "had their phones on them" Where on them? She doesn't say near them or in their pockets... she says ON them. That is also odd. It makes me wonder if the perp "posed" them in this way, in a mocking kind of way or if perhaps this was part of the torture while they were still alive. To place their line for help right on them knowing that they couldn't use it.

If this is the case, I don't see it being a robbery, home invasion or drug deal gone bad. The fact alone that they were asphyxiated is unusual. That is a method that is personal. It's a slower death and doesn't seem to be about rage but about power or maybe even vengence?

Sorry about the long post but I've been waiting all day to get confirmation to post & these thoughts and questions have had time to build. Looking forward to the discussion. Thanks

 

[LMax]

:welcome: