OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #12

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rsd1200 said:
It happens all of the time. I know a guy who spent thousands of dollars upgrading a piece of property that he thought was his. It was not. He was so sure it was his that he got a lawyer to prove it. But, in the end, it still was not his property.
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Something about this cloudy issue regarding the Union Hill parcels that I can't get my head wrapped around...

Clarence Rhoden's real estate was transferred by the Pike County Probate Court to his eight legal heirs on 2-7-2011.

(He died intestate as an unmarried person on 7-16-2008 -- his legal heirs were four surviving sons and four surviving daughters.)

The transfer included parcels 23-0111, 23-0585, 23-0586, and 23-0587 in Sunfish Twp. which are the parcels associated with CR1 et al at 4077 and 4091 Union Hill Road.

(Clarence Rhoden's address in the 2004 auditor's records after his release from prison was 4091 Union Hill Road.)

If there was any question about true boundary lines for these parcels and parcel # 23-0121 (shown on the overlay map owned by EF & DS), it seems to me that any boundary issues could/would/should have been cleared up prior to the Probate Court issuance of a Certificate of Transfer on 2-7-2011.

EF & DS acquired parcel 23-0121 on 9-2-2009 via a Surety Deed from JF, a widow who was deeded the parcel in 2008 in a Survivorship deed.

So I'm wondering if the overlay is imprecise due to technology limitations -- Occam's Razor?

Kinda like the lack of precision sometimes occurring with Google maps?

Otherwise, assumptions have to be made that CR1 built a large permanent structure on land he held no ownership in and all that could go with that.

Please correct me if I have any of these facts wrong. As far as what I'm thinking about this issue, please feel free to see if I can see any clarity in a different way.
 
Betty P said:
Yes, the open window is interesting. IIRC it was discussed before, some guessing it was a bedroom or kitchen window. Could have been broken out with all the gunfire that night. Or someone came in that way.

.
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The way the curtain is hanging and, IMO, attached to the outside of the window, tells me that it was either used as an exit or for ventilation. If someone had gone in that way (without coming out the same way), the curtain couldn't be attached on the outside like that...or if the window was broken out, the curtain wouldn't be left that way either.
 
Ann99 said:
I love the quality of this photo.
If you look in front of trailer, in front of tow truck, there is a tall thin pole that looks
to have electric and more.
I don't see it, but there could be a camera, light system on there.

Do you see the open window at right end trailer?
Click to expand...

I don't see anything either. They could have just had motion sensor lights. If they had cctv or anything else that records I'm sure it would have been taken. They knew to take KRs from what we've been lead to believe anyway.
 
Betty P said:
Here's a large photo of the crime scene at CR1's home. I'm not an expert, but I'm not seeing any cameras on these buildings. I realize they may be small, but what do you all think?
Since the killers dismantled and took the camera system at KR's property, did they do the same at CR1's? I'm having trouble linking, so you may need to cut and paste.

http://www.trbimg.com/img-571a9c8c/turbine/ct-ohio-shooting-pike-county-20160422

ETA: Click on the photo at the link and you'll see a large, hi res photo of the area.
Click to expand...

Clear photo!
 
yes end window is open, curtains are hanging out, LE may have opened windows due to odor?
 
rsd1200 said:
I don't see anything either. They could have just had motion sensor lights. If they had cctv or anything else that records I'm sure it would have been taken. They knew to take KRs from what we've been lead to believe anyway.
Click to expand...

As far as the window open, there is one that is open on the back too. I think it was b/c it was the bedroom area and they wanted airflow. Too soon to turn on a/c but it was warm enough to open windows. But, who knows. Maybe it could have been someone who was visiting them and an argument broke out and all heck broke out. They knew the others would know who they were b/c they may have rode up w/Gary from Ky. and had been around visiting with Gary's other kin before going to CR1s to stay the night. Then left out the back door of CR1s (so that explains the front one being locked) so as not to be seen, and went to the other homes they'd visited that afternoon, to tie up loose ends. Maybe no one else knows that person came to OH w/Gary. Just a thought.
 
rsd1200 said:
As far as the window open, there is one that is open on the back too. I think it was b/c it was the bedroom area and they wanted airflow. Too soon to turn on a/c but it was warm enough to open windows. But, who knows. Maybe it could have been someone who was visiting them and an argument broke out and all heck broke out. They knew the others would know who they were b/c they may have rode up w/Gary from Ky. and had been around visiting with Gary's other kin before going to CR1s to stay the night. Then left out the back door of CR1s (so that explains the front one being locked) so as not to be seen, and went to the other homes they'd visited that afternoon, to tie up loose ends. Maybe no one else knows that person came to OH w/Gary. Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Here's a photo of the back of CR1's home. I don't see any doors open, though its not a high quality photo.

https://img.youtube.com/vi/2w4jBzbaR40/mqdefault.jpg
 
Dudly said:
The Auditor's Office says the maps are not to scale. But what if they are close and the mobile home and new building are not on property owned by Chris Sr.? What if he thought that property
went back from the road as far as the ones adjacent? It looks like he was using that property as his as far back as the adjacent properties. There definitely could be a confrontation over that.
It may be far fetched but I know people who have had disputes over property lines including myself.
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Well that particular property according to deeds and map is only .35 of an acre. It's not even half an acre. Like I mentioned before, you can't fit two trailers, a garage, a huge barn and all the other things on .35 acre. They are definitely on someone else's land. I'm not sure why though because he owns 5 acres to the left of his house that looks like just woods with the exception of the 2.5 acre lot that looks like cars and junk.
 
Ann99 said:
Your reply made me realize something else.
"They were raising *advertiser censored*."
yes, and quite a large number too. Raising is legal in Ohio.
In all reading of social media, I never saw any evidence that they were selling them.
Why raise and not sell?
Speculation... Someone else must have been doing the sales.
Has anyone come across this info?
Click to expand...

Sorry if this has been asked before but I don't recall reading about it ... how much money is in cockfighting? I'm sadly aware of the practice as well as dogfighting which sickens me but because it's an underground thing... it's not like there's a Triple Crown of rooster fighting or anything. Gambling can snowball into some biga$$ debt no matter the venue.
 
Maybe there was a reason why the big pole barn was built on property not owned by an immediate family member of the Rhoden family....

Just as an example, if you don't own it, are you responsible for what is in it? JMO but a person could really get down deep in the rabbit hole when you think about things from that kind of angle. More so especially IMO IF the two trailers were NOT on land owned by an immediate family member of the Rhoden family.

But then again, as someone already mentioned, maybe it is theirs and the landmarks, property lines etc just aren't up to par good enough to really figure it all out...
 
Everyday Grace said:
Something about this cloudy issue regarding the Union Hill parcels that I can't get my head wrapped around...

Clarence Rhoden's real estate was transferred by the Pike County Probate Court to his eight legal heirs on 2-7-2011.

(He died intestate as an unmarried person on 7-16-2008 -- his legal heirs were four surviving sons and four surviving daughters.)

The transfer included parcels 23-0111, 23-0585, 23-0586, and 23-0587 in Sunfish Twp. which are the parcels associated with CR1 et al at 4077 and 4091 Union Hill Road.

(Clarence Rhoden's address in the 2004 auditor's records after his release from prison was 4091 Union Hill Road.)

If there was any question about true boundary lines for these parcels and parcel # 23-0121 (shown on the overlay map owned by EF & DS), it seems to me that any boundary issues could/would/should have been cleared up prior to the Probate Court issuance of a Certificate of Transfer on 2-7-2011.

EF & DS acquired parcel 23-0121 on 9-2-2009 via a Surety Deed from JF, a widow who was deeded the parcel in 2008 in a Survivorship deed.

So I'm wondering if the overlay is imprecise due to technology limitations -- Occam's Razor?

Kinda like the lack of precision sometimes occurring with Google maps?

Otherwise, assumptions have to be made that CR1 built a large permanent structure on land he held no ownership in and all that could go with that.

Please correct me if I have any of these facts wrong. As far as what I'm thinking about this issue, please feel free to see if I can see any clarity in a different way.
Click to expand...

Yes, but, out in the country you normally do not have to have a building permit and people build their own structures a lot of the time and do their own wiring, etc... He may very well have known at the time when the transfer was made to him and his siblings where his land boundaries were. But, like me, and the guy I told you about, as time goes on, and the land has been in the family for a long time, the lines blur. I could not tell you where my property lines are at this time. Would I build a permanent structure w/o checking? No. But do other people do so? Yes. It happens more often than you'd think. Just like the guy I mentioned. It was thousands of dollars that he spent. It was not his property. Obviously he didn't check either. I know of cases where people have put up fencing and even built a structure and it was inches over onto another's property. It is a mess at the end of the day b/c they "thought" they knew where their boundary line was. Many old property descriptions read; from the pin oak tree at the left fork, to the sapling white oak, 300 yards... So you have to get a guy out to survey. That costs money and you have to have a stranger on your land. . . wandering around. . .
 
Betty P said:
Another view of front of FR's home. Note there is a large dusk to dawn street light in front

http://www.smh.com.au/content/dam/i...Leadwide.620x349.godcs0.png/1461362609224.jpg
Click to expand...

The following link should go to a 5-24-2011 post from FR's Facebook. He was still in high school when he posted the photo. (2012 grad according to his FB.)

Looks to me that the mobile home and front deck are the same as the structures in the photo at Betty P's link.

Could narrow down as to when the mobile home presumed to be FR's residence was placed on the property.

The photo was posted prior to the 7-2011 Probate Court's transfer of Clarence Rhoden's real estate. Suggests to me that any cloudy boundary issues (if they existed) would/could/should have been addressed prior to the transfer of Clarence's real estate.

Sorry I can't post the photo directly. Tech issue on my end as I'm limited to using my phone.

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...69:1293868800:1325404799:-6026484340812894652
 
rsd1200 said:
Yes, but, out in the country you normally do not have to have a building permit and people build their own structures a lot of the time and do their own wiring, etc... He may very well have known at the time when the transfer was made to him and his siblings where his land boundaries were. But, like me, and the guy I told you about, as time goes on, and the land has been in the family for a long time, the lines blur. I could not tell you where my property lines are at this time. Would I build a permanent structure w/o checking? No. But do other people do so? Yes. It happens more often than you'd think. Just like the guy I mentioned. It was thousands of dollars that he spent. It was not his property. Obviously he didn't check either. I know of cases where people have put up fencing and even built a structure and it was inches over onto another's property. It is a mess at the end of the day b/c they "thought" they knew where their boundary line was. Many old property descriptions read; from the pin oak tree at the left fork, to the sapling white oak, 300 yards... So you have to get a guy out to survey. That costs money and you have to have a stranger on your land. . . wandering around. . .
Click to expand...

I understand all that. I'm also too familiar with bad survey lines that go way back and the cost involved in clearing things up.

What I'm having an issue with is why someone who could claim ownership of the land wouldn't speak up when the structure was going up.

If it wasn't an issue for them then, why might it become an issue for them later?
 
Ann99 said:
I love the quality of this photo.
If you look in front of trailer, in front of tow truck, there is a tall thin pole that looks
to have electric and more.
I don't see it, but there could be a camera, light system on there.

Do you see the open window at right end trailer?
Click to expand...

My comment has nothing to do with....If there is a camera on the pole or not....

But basically that is just their meter, and where the power "comes onto" their property at. Every home that has Electricity has that setup, or one similar. In a regular constructed home (non-trailer) it is normally on the backside of the house. In most towns and newer constructed homes, the electric has to be buried. The bigger box below the actual meter is where the electric is coming in. The lines are buried, and the PVC pipes holds the electric lines coming up from the ground, and into that box, which probably has some breakers in it, and then through the meter. From there the lines can go to wherever they want to run the lines (based on local codes, if there are any).
 
That was my first thought about this whole tragedy. It must have started at the bloodiest scene. I think that if it was planned, they would have brought bigger caliber guns, and from the describtion of the different scenes, it seems to have been a smaller caliber. If one of the victims brought someone in, that will explain the dogs not attacking too. We want to know when GR arrived, but still no luck? Level of intoxication of the CRsr and GR is also interesting IMO.

On a different matter, did CR2 own the silver Tiburon that was mentioned in the facebook threat against him? Is that the same silver car parked outside CR1s house?

I live in Norway, this case caught my attention the very day it happened, and I can't let it go. It brought out the stalker in me, but you all in here makes me feel less of a freak, and I am impressed of the level seriousness. I still have a million questions, though, so keep up the good work! :)

Edit: This was a reply to rsd1200, I am new to this, obviously. :facepalm:
 
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