GUILTY OH - Two women & child killed, 13yo abducted, Apple Valley, 10 Nov 2010 #8

[Java]

I will be very surprised if the DP has been removed as an option, because of the nature of this crime. More than likely MH's Mother helped. And MH had been told a repeated number of times, that it was only a matter of time, and they would find the bodies anyway. Even though they may not have. Also they had Sarah as a witness, and MH probably didn't have any idea what she was telling LE. It all broke him down some how. And depending on who was doing the interrogating, it could of been a 24 hr, under bright lights thing, until he gave in.

I still think he will get the DP, I just hope it doesn't take 20+ years to get it done!

 

[oh_gal]

Well, after the facts were known, it did raise a few eyebrows, including mine!
But even as much of a coincidence as it is, I would have to guess probably not.

I would lean towards MH working entirely on his own.

Does anyone know when Catfish's first post re: hiding things up in trees vs. when MH was arrested?

 

[Cazzie]

I've become emotionally involved with this case, like many (most?) who know of it.

In order to discuss and speculate about the who/what/when/where/how/why of it, I have had to try to put the emotional aspect on the back burner (but it's not just simmering, it's about to boil over).

I hope that anyone reading my posts understands that, especially the locals and anyone else who knows these dear people, their families, their friends.

 

[Cazzie]

I wouldn't be too surprised to hear that MH's Mother had gone over there on Saturday, and perhaps saw or heard something that tipped her off, and she made the phone call to LE.

SBM.

I never thought of that, wow! Could be. If so, bless her heart. Bless her heart anyway, she surely is hurting to the max. Wish I could hug her in person.

 

[belimom]

Does anyone know when Catfish's first post re: hiding things up in trees vs. when MH was arrested?

IIRC, it may have been the night before (ETA: Catfish's post was the night before they found the bodies, for clarification)... during the night search for the blue sweatshirt. Everyone was posting alot about it and speculating that the bodies might be found there, and then the post about the hollowed out tree appeared. Not sure if it was Catfish or not (I think the one I saw was someone different?). A few of us on here had speculated about looking up in trees, but that was the first post I had seen about INSIDE of a tree.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Smooth -
Am bringing this post over from last page of last thread..

ABOVE BBM.. This is the 3rd time in these threads that I have seen this made reference to..."<modsnip>"

Can anyone point me to where this particular info came from? Am not questioning its validity and am assuming that this is in regards to the dismemberment{i.e. the last part about hearing the saw would indicate such}..

Am very curious to read about this info myself..TIA
--------

I believe it was Wed. late afternoon, many of us were buzzing back and fourth, Topix, news stories, FB, etc&#8230;
Trying to find some info on the search, etc&#8230;. because at that point the PC had been canceled for Thurs.
Until a &#8220;dramatic turn in the case&#8221; evolved. And we got a PC of the find Thurs afternoon.

BUT prior to any release of info on the find. Wed a Topix poster by the moniker of &#8220;Hopeful&#8221; posted that they were close to the family and had heard that Sarah <modsnip>.
It made me sick, this poor child would have to go through this horror. And another poster by the moniker of Catfish Billy, was saying to look in hollow trees.
Unfortunately so many trolls have come out (I don&#8217;t see how people can do that but..) on FB and else where, it was hopefully thought that this may be the case again, and these people were full of BS.
Many of us were thinking &#8220;How in the heck do you know THAT?&#8221;
Their posts have been removed but, there is a poster here on WS that copied the posts.

Truthfully, when I saw photos of that tree, the height, the opening, and the opening that LE had cut in the lower portion to remove the bodies, I knew the dismemberment was true. Again sick to my stomach.

This MH, is in a high class of psychopaths, dismemberment is a level all it&#8217;s own. Fortunately not a common, common event. It is not an easy thing to do, most especially X3. To be cold and calculating: It is very messy, and takes A LOT of hard work. It isn&#8217;t a 15 minute ordeal! Most people would not even imagine it, much less attempt it.

But thinking of little Sarah having to be there <modsnip>, just takes the cake for me. I am having a very hard time getting past that. It has really stuck me in the gut.
Unfortunately the Topix posts on Wed. have come to be a reality.

Thanks, java

Disturbing to say the least.. I/m not a very good sleeper anyway but after this I am not getting to sleep past two nights.. It is literally worse than the worst of any horror movie ever made{and I've seen them all}.. And not even the sickest and most sadist movies compare to what the reality of this little girl has gone thru.. IT IS TRULY UNIMAGINABLE..

Scary movies have always been my favorite every since I was an older kid.. But to tell the truth in the last couple of years it is getting to where there is no enjoyment whatsoever in watching them... And I find myself refusing to watch more and more.. {and as I said nothing I have seen in a "movie" which is make believe.. even in that realm with what MH has done is more horrorific, sadistic, and purest of evil}... It is as if the movies no longer represent just an entertaining "scare" but rather it is too realistic to me at this point... may sound absurd but it is true and it scares the chit out of me the amount of truly criminally insane, sadistic, twisted, psychopaths that walk amongst us, live 2 doors down from us, and are standing behind us in line at the bank and the grocery store... preying on our false sense of security that so many of us feel in our everyday lives...

Never even knowing that those amongst us are fantasizing the unimaginable of sadistic and evil acts and picking out there next victim.. watching, waiting, planning, plotting, and eventually executing his sick fantasy coming to life with one of us and our children as his latest victim..

It is more than disturbing...It is life changing not only for Sarah and her family but it is life altering to many many further out by the ripple effect..

This is the purest of evil and without any emotion..In that video court appearance you saw zero emotion, guilt, or remorse.zero..

There was no hanging his head in shame as someone with a conscience would do..looking away in shame..MH showed none of these naturally felt emotions by human beings when they have done something they know is wrong.. He does not show these human traits..He is vacant

 

[KAE]

That story was very shocking also, and I have been discounting a connection in my own mind, because of the use of a gun. But re-reading that article today, one detail makes me wonder (for the first time) if he might be connected: her truck was also missing and not located until later. Her house was remote also.

I'm sure Sheriff Barber and the detectives have considered this. They have caught heat for not solving it.

ETA: Another link to the story (with other links from there) http://www.mountvernonnews.com/local/10/01/06/homicide-investigation-continues

While talking to my brother (who also lives in the area), he wondered about many 'suspicious' fires in the area the past few years being connected. I don't have specifics, and my head is spinning too much ATM to even go there right now. But the Jean Davis unsolved murder has me rattled, and they investigated if her murder was connected to many burglaries in her area.

Thank you for answering some of my questions (without my even asking them!).

The use of a gun has bothered me as well, but it could have been stolen in another robbery. MOO.
It's really great to get the opinion of someone local!

 

[SmoothOperator]

IIRC, it may have been the night before... during the night search for the blue sweatshirt. Everyone was posting alot about it and speculating that the bodies might be found there, and then the post about the hollowed out tree appeared. Not sure if it was Catfish or not (I think the one I saw was someone different?). A few of us on here had speculated about looking up in trees, but that was the first post I had seen about INSIDE of a tree.

I missed this part.. I was still only lurking in this forum at the very beginning of this case..

What blue sweatshirt was being searched for during a night search?
TIA

 

[belimom]

I missed this part.. I was still only lurking in this forum at the very beginning of this case..

What blue sweatshirt was being searched for during a night search?
TIA

Sorry - I edited my post to say that the post about searching in trees was posted the night before the bodies were found. That night, a bow hunter had reported finding something and seeing buzzards. So a search started that night that yielded a blue sweatshirt, which was similar to what Kody had been wearing.

 

[Cazzie]

Sorry - I edited my post to say that the post about searching in trees was posted the night before the bodies were found. That night, a bow hunter had reported finding something and seeing buzzards. So a search started that night that yielded a blue sweatshirt, which was similar to what Kody had been wearing.

The searcher that found it thought it was a sweatshirt, but after LE arrived to check it out, it was determined to be sweatpants. The searcher was on camera via MSM before LE got there, and 'splained afterwards online that it was sweatpants.

So obviously, people went from "it's Kody's" to "it's Tina's". Neither of which panned out.

 

[newshound6]

Sorry - I edited my post to say that the post about searching in trees was posted the night before the bodies were found. That night, a bow hunter had reported finding something and seeing buzzards. So a search started that night that yielded a blue sweatshirt, which was similar to what Kody had been wearing.

I believe the sweatshirts and pants and the buzzards circling report(and subsequent night time search) involved a different area,one much closer to the Herrman home.Also, the fact that large beech trees are hollow throughout the trunk is really common knowledge among "nature people", be they hunters,bird watchers or tree trimmers.I do not believe these bodies would have been found for many years,maybe not 'til that tree fell down on it's own.This area was not being searched.If MH had not told exactly where the bodies were,it would have been crazy luck and cadaver dogs that found these victims,and as I said this area wasn't even part of the search.

 

[MCDRAW]

Well, after the facts were known, it did raise a few eyebrows, including mine!
But even as much of a coincidence as it is, I would have to guess probably not.

I would lean towards MH working entirely on his own.

I think he probably did work alone. It's just kind of scary to think there is someone that thinks an awful lot like Hoffman.

 

[belimom]

I believe the sweatshirts and pants and the buzzards circling report(and subsequent night time search) involved a different area,one much closer to the Herrman home....(snipped)...

Yes, that's correct. I was responding to a question about when Catfish Billy (and someone else, I think) started posting about looking in hollows of trees. Those posts first started appearing at about the same time as the search that located the blue sweatpants.

 

[Cazzie]

I believe the sweatshirts and pants and the buzzards circling report(and subsequent night time search) involved a different area,one much closer to the Herrman home.Also, the fact that large beech trees are hollow throughout the trunk is really common knowledge among "nature people", be they hunters,bird watchers or tree trimmers.I do not believe these bodies would have been found for many years,maybe not 'til that tree fell down on it's own.This area was not being searched.If MH had not told exactly where the bodies were,it would have been crazy luck and cadaver dogs that found these victims,and as I said this area wasn't even part of the search.

Yet. ~~~

 

[CKay]

Thank you for answering some of my questions (without my even asking them!).

The use of a gun has bothered me as well, but it could have been stolen in another robbery. MOO.
It's really great to get the opinion of someone local!

I discounted the connection because of the gun, but absolutely about the gun. Many people are armed in this county (hunters and otherwise). Re-reading the article you posted made the lightbulb go off, at first because of truck missing at first (ding ding ding), then the burglaries. I don't believe they released the exact location of where the truck was found, but Licking County is due south of this county. I believe Licking County LE was also trying to connect the dots (unsolved burglaries in their county that were similar).

I won't be shocked if they eventually connect him to the Jean Davis murder. Not sure what evidence they have, so hard to know if a connection can be made based on evidence alone.

 

[Wondergirl]

From Dr. Jennifer Ogle, theKnox County Coroner:

&#8220;We&#8217;re just beginning the process and it can be a lengthy process,&#8221; Ogle said.

&#8220;I&#8217;m hoping these autopsies will be completed by Sunday or Monday,&#8221; she said. &#8220;I plan to make some kind of media release tomorrow [Saturday], which may or may not include cause of death.&#8221;

Ogle said she could not comment on whether or not weapons were used against the three victims.

&#8220;I don&#8217;t want to comment on that until I know the cause of death,&#8221; she explained. Ogle did say she had not found evidence that firearms were used to injure the victims.

http://www.mountvernonnews.com/local/10/11/20/ogle-seeks-answers-in-homicide-case

 

[newshound6]

Yes, that's correct. I was responding to a question about when Catfish Billy (and someone else, I think) started posting about looking in hollows of trees. Those posts first started appearing at about the same time as the search that located the blue sweatpants.

Yea, I guess I'm just thinking it is not so crazy that Catfish Billie started saying "look up" and then explaining how a body could get up a tree,when it seemed that buzzards and clothing were indicating the bodies WERE there, but there wasn't any thing on the ground,or disturbed ground.

 

[TallCoolOne]

Regardless of my personal feelings about this monster who decided to commit 3 horrid and senseless murders, I somehow am managing to have a practical thought.

When advising people who are getting ready to go on a search, I have never read or heard of anyone being advised to look up into the trees. Yet they say the best place to hide outdoors is to climb a tree because most people don't look up. This one is really a new one for me. Yet it is pretty simple. I think we should keep track of it.

I am wondering if we couldn't start a thread somewhere and list a general description of the types of places that a missing persons remains have been found. In order to be respectful, we wouldn't have to list the victims names, maybe just a link to a post that gives the media description of the place where the remains were found.

Ex: Nov 2010 Three sets of remains found in hollow tree.

link

That way when someone is getting ready to go on a search, they could go to the thread and get some idea of the types of places to look for remains, and what to be looking for.

Merely hitting the Thanks button for this was not enough. This is a fantastic idea mysteryview! How often are we sitting here discussing the fact we have run out of ideas/options? You know searchers have those same discussions. Kind of a searchers check list.

 

[Wondergirl]

Here is how Hoffman has spent his time in jail thus far:

According to logs provided by the Knox County jail, Hoffman has been under a suicide watch since entering the prison just after 2 p.m Sunday. He's being checked every 10 minutes by guards.

The logs detail how he's spent his time:

For the first 2 1/2 hours of his stay on Sunday, he was left in a restraint chair. About 50 minutes after being strapped in, he urinated on himself, the log states.

At 5 p.m., he was put in a "suicide gown," a vest designed to keep him from hurting himself.

He spent much of his first day lying down, interrupted a few times to be fingerprinted and have his photo taken.

Just after 8:30 on Sunday evening, he started crying but had stopped by the time another deputy came back six minutes later. It is the only time that the log refers to his state of mind.

Hoffman spent nearly 6 1/2 hours with detectives on Monday, and an additional 90 minutes being questioned Tuesday morning.

He met with his attorney at 11:20a.m. Tuesday and had his videotaped court hearing at 1:30p.m. At 6:30 that night, after dinner, he was given an unnamed book and read for the next hour.

He met again with his attorney for more than two hours on Wednesday, before his mother, Patricia Hedglin, came for a 20-minute visit at 10 p.m., the first day of visiting hours. Hedglin and her husband live near Herrmann's home, seemingly the only connection between Hoffman and the families.

Thursday, Hoffman met with his attorney at 2:50 p.m., after the bodies had been cut out of the tree. Knox County Sheriff David Barber has confirmed that Hoffman told them of the location, but the log doesn't detail that conversation. After meeting with his attorney, the log says, Hoffman returned to his cell and again read.

At 5:10 p.m. Thursday, while Barber was telling reporters gathered at the sheriff's office that the bodies had been found, Hoffman was reading.

At 1:30 p.m. yesterday, he was given a new book and the old one was taken out

http://www.dispatch.com/live/conten...bodies-of-3-missing-people-found.html?sid=101

 

[Cazzie]

Initially, I was surprised (no, shocked) that the ME would have autopsy results for 3 people (and btw, is she doing Tanner, too?) as early as Saturday (really?), let alone mention a presser for Saturday. Guess she is the optimistic type.

And lo and behold:

Quote:
&#8220;We&#8217;re just beginning the process and it can be a lengthy process,&#8221; Ogle said.

&#8220;I&#8217;m hoping these autopsies will be completed by Sunday or Monday,&#8221; she said. &#8220;I plan to make some kind of media release tomorrow [Saturday], which may or may not include cause of death.&#8221;

Ogle said she could not comment on whether or not weapons were used against the three victims.

&#8220;I don&#8217;t want to comment on that until I know the cause of death,&#8221; she explained. Ogle did say she had not found evidence that firearms were used to injure the victims.

http://www.mountvernonnews.com/local...-homicide-case