GUILTY OK - Christopher Lane, 22, Australian, slain in thrill killing, Duncan, 16 Aug 2013

[Jersey*Girl]

Maybe he commented on Trayvon because it is a personal issue for him, being a man of color? Because the president (any president) is in a unique position to be able speak on issues, and we have never had a person of color in the white house who can share his unique experiences with being profiled?

But he did so before the trial. He personified with him. He identified with him. Referred to him as "son". I think that's why so many American's became outraged. I never got involved in that case bc I didn't like the hate. Hate on both sides. I didn't like how each side was made out to be. There was no happy medium. Nobody met in the middle and respect was thrown out the window. I still haven't talked to one of my neighbors bc of what she said about one of the people involved. Wen people start talking trash, you see their real true side. If its ugly, I stay away. I don't do ugly in my inner circle kwim? The media created the firestorm in that case and they should have been held accountable. The media is who created that race war. It totally sucked.

 

[oyeyemi808]

Trayvon had a huge outcry because it was going to be swept under the rug, not even investigated at first.

But kill a white man, and everyone is up in arms. Look how fast this case is handled. When a black man dies, no one cares, there is often no pressure to resolve the issue swiftly or, depending on where it happens, at all.

And now this poor man's death is already being used by the usual conservative loudmouths to "prove" something. And to cry about being "oppressed" by "political correctness" (read: I can't spout my racist garbage because I might get called on it).

The thinly veiled racism in this thread is astounding. I've no doubt that my post will be deleted yet again. Because apparently it's okay to hint around that "certain subcultures" (read:blacks, or even "animals", as I've seen here) are prone to violence (bolstered by prison statistics that take absolutely nothing into consideration about institutional racism, profiling, harsher sentences for black men, etc), but it's not okay to post the other side of the coin.

Maybe the mods should ask people of color here how they feel about some of these posts that are allowed to stand on this thread. I get snipped and told that posters are allowed to feel how they feel, but if I point out how a post makes ME feel, that's too bad, I guess.

Thank you for your post I've been feeling that way since I've joined and I've been put on timeout for speaking the same thing

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[Gardenlady]

The case first made headlines due to the international aspect and the fact that the Australian news is giving this case extensive coverage. The race aspect came into play when JE's racist comments became known. IMO, and I'm just speculating, much of the anger you are seeing is about the double-standard that allows discussion of racial factors only when it involves white-on-black crime.

The reason there is pushback when race is discussed in a black-on-white crime is -

1. It inevitably is used as "proof" of something deeper in a way that does not happen in white-on-white, white-on-black, or black-on-black crime. This is because people of color are never allowed, in daily life, to just be individuals. They are always held as some sort of representation of blacks as a whole. Think how it feels when you are a average black man who can never lose his temper legitimately because you are simply having a crap day - and why? Because all the white folks will be thinking "oh, he's just a an uppity black guy". Or "those black men are so prone to anger and violence! Can't control themselves!" You ar never allowed to be just individual YOU, a human being.

2-Because if there is a "double standard" in talking about race, the white community, being the majority, privileged community, does not suffer the same detriment that a marginalized, minority community does. Whites own the government, the media, most businesses, etc. Whites have access to power to a degree that marginalized and minority communities never will. When marginalized people are shut out of a conversation, or denied access, the result is a real, actual detriment. No matter how hard people cry about "PC", they will never have their voices silenced or their access to power removed to the degree a minority marginalized community will.

I would go on... But I gotta gt ready to go out. Sorry for typos and convoluted reply, I'm rushing.

 

[FigTree]

Im sorry if this is a repeat - I tried to find it back in the thread...

911 call on Audio - Listen at Link...
http://video.heraldsun.com.au/2401939246/911-call-for-Christopher-Lane

The seven-minute call, released by the District Attorney's office in Duncan, Oklahoma, begins with local Joyce Smith telling the operator she was driving her Toyota Corolla and spotted a bloodied man at the side of the road.

"There's a young man," Ms Smith tells the operator.
"He's just fell over in a ditch and he's got blood on him."

It was 2.57pm on Friday.

SOURCE: Read More...

.

 

[stmarysmead]

The delay and confusion over charging GZ, was due to the Stand your Ground Law, not TM being Black or GZ being a White Hispanic. He was charged but that law made ot almost impossible to convict him...if the jury followed the law.

There is an uproar in this case, because THERE SHOULD BE. The skin hues of these kids should afford them no excuses. In fact, they are both Black and White. But their MINDSET is terrifying! The influence of "Gansta Culture" is everywhere on their social media. What is the cultural value of music that romaniticizes killing, drugs, sexual mistreatment of women? Why are rappers entertained by the powerful as if the words they put into young childs minds...are beautiful and inspirational and advancing the culture?

Anyone who was outraged over TM should ask themselves why this case, and the elderly man beaten to death by flashlights, should not receive the same long and intense media coverage, political interest, and request for national dialogue. This is no lesser tragedy, is it?

I understand that many believe TM was profiled. If we want "profiling" to stop, we have to discuss cases like this that feed the fear that causes progiling. We have to discuss crime statistics that feed the fear.

If we want a better, safer world for all our kids, people need to stop being offended, and engage in that discussion

 

[defense101]

As I read the comments here on this post today, very telling. Seems some youths get a pass and certain ones Don't.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

No I don't think so, if white person went and killed a black man and on his twitter account said going to kill me some (well you know what) tonight, that would be a race based crime, this is what this kid did. I think myself this was a crime of opportunity, not race but had it been reversed the feds would have stepped in while here they are not. IMO Its all in how you view it.

 

[Gardenlady]

But he did so before the trial. He personified with him. He identified with him. Referred to him as "son". I think that's why so many American's became outraged. I never got involved in that case bc I didn't like the hate. Hate on both sides. I didn't like how each side was made out to be. There was no happy medium. Nobody met in the middle and respect was thrown out the window. I still haven't talked to one of my neighbors bc of what she said about one of the people involved. Wen people start talking trash, you see their real true side. If its ugly, I stay away. I don't do ugly in my inner circle kwim? The media created the firestorm in that case and they should have been held accountable. The media is who created that race war. It totally sucked.

Wy is it bad if he identified with Trayvon? Why WOULDN'T he? Profiling and discrimination are a daily, ongoing thing for black men. No matter if they are dressed in a hoodie or a suit. They don't get cabs, they get followed in stores, they get windows rolled up and doors locked when they walk by a car. In hundreds, thousands of different ways this happens to black men everyday. But he isn't supposed to talk about it, because it might upset white people? I don't get it. From what I remember, he was asked to comment on the case, and he spoke from his heart about his experience as a man of color.

And as soon as he does? Look what happens, look at all the crap he took. The message was loud and clear. White Americans don't want to hear about the experiences of black men.

 

[Gardenlady]

The delay and confusion over charging GZ, was due to the Stand your Ground Law, not TM being Black or GZ being a White Hispanic. He was charged but that law made ot almost impossible to convict him...if the jury followed the law.

There is an uproar in this case, because THERE SHOULD BE. The skin hues of these kids should afford them no excuses. In fact, they are both Black and White. But their MINDSET is terrifying! The influence of "Gansta Culture" is everywhere on their social media. What is the cultural value of music that romaniticizes killing, drugs, sexual mistreatment of women? Why are rappers entertained by the powerful as if the words they put into young childs minds...are beautiful and inspirational and advancing the culture?

Anyone who was outraged over TM should ask themselves why this case, and the elderly man beaten to death by flashlights, should not receive the same long and intense media coverage, political interest, and request for national dialogue. This is no lesser tragedy, is it?

I understand that many believe TM was profiled. If we want "profiling" to stop, we have to discuss cases like this that feed the fear that causes progiling. We have to discuss crime statistics that feed the fear.

If we want a better, safer world for all our kids, people need to stop being offended, and engage in that discussion

Why are you not as angry with the rich white men responsible for pushing gangsta rap and gangsta culture? Or the suburban white boys who buy so much of it?

 

[eileenhawkeye]

The reason there is pushback when race is discussed in a black-on-white crime is -

1. It inevitably is used as "proof" of something deeper in a way that does not happen in white-on-white, white-on-black, or black-on-black crime. This is because people of color are never allowed, in daily life, to just be individuals. They are always held as some sort of representation of blacks as a whole. Think how it feels when you are a average black man who can never lose his temper legitimately because you are simply having a crap day - and why? Because all the white folks will be thinking "oh, he's just a an uppity black guy". Or "those black men are so prone to anger and violence! Can't control themselves!" You ar never allowed to be just individual YOU, a human being.

2-Because if there is a "double standard" in talking about race, the white community, being the majority, privileged community, does not suffer the same detriment that a marginalized, minority community does. Whites own the government, the media, most businesses, etc. Whites have access to power to a degree that marginalized and minority communities never will. When marginalized people are shut out of a conversation, or denied access, the result is a real, actual detriment. No matter how hard people cry about "PC", they will never have their voices silenced or their access to power removed to the degree a minority marginalized community will.

I would go on... But I gotta gt ready to go out. Sorry for typos and convoluted reply, I'm rushing.

No matter how many white people we hear about who are abusing, raping, and murdering people, they will never be seen as a representative of the entire race. They will always be seen as an individual. White people won't be judged by their actions. However, when a black person commits a crime, it's seen as something that all black people do.

 

[defense101]

The delay and confusion over charging GZ, was due to the Stand your Ground Law, not TM being Black or GZ being a White Hispanic. He was charged but that law made ot almost impossible to convict him...if the jury followed the law.

There is an uproar in this case, because THERE SHOULD BE. The skin hues of these kids should afford them no excuses. In fact, they are both Black and White. But their MINDSET is terrifying! The influence of "Gansta Culture" is everywhere on their social media. What is the cultural value of music that romaniticizes killing, drugs, sexual mistreatment of women? Why are rappers entertained by the powerful as if the words they put into young childs minds...are beautiful and inspirational and advancing the culture?

Anyone who was outraged over TM should ask themselves why this case, and the elderly man beaten to death by flashlights, should not receive the same long and intense media coverage, political interest, and request for national dialogue. This is no lesser tragedy, is it?

I understand that many believe TM was profiled. If we want "profiling" to stop, we have to discuss cases like this that feed the fear that causes progiling. We have to discuss crime statistics that feed the fear.

If we want a better, safer world for all our kids, people need to stop being offended, and engage in that discussion

No I don't believe that, had the races been reversed the black man never would have been able to walk out of that police station that night. IMO

 

[Gardenlady]

I have to run because I have a house full of teens in need of a ride to the mall lol. Thank you all for the discussion and if I am not on time out when I return later Ill be glad to continue the discussion. eace:

 

[eileenhawkeye]

The delay and confusion over charging GZ, was due to the Stand your Ground Law, not TM being Black or GZ being a White Hispanic. He was charged but that law made ot almost impossible to convict him...if the jury followed the law.

There is an uproar in this case, because THERE SHOULD BE. The skin hues of these kids should afford them no excuses. In fact, they are both Black and White. But their MINDSET is terrifying! The influence of "Gansta Culture" is everywhere on their social media. What is the cultural value of music that romaniticizes killing, drugs, sexual mistreatment of women? Why are rappers entertained by the powerful as if the words they put into young childs minds...are beautiful and inspirational and advancing the culture?

Anyone who was outraged over TM should ask themselves why this case, and the elderly man beaten to death by flashlights, should not receive the same long and intense media coverage, political interest, and request for national dialogue. This is no lesser tragedy, is it?

I understand that many believe TM was profiled. If we want "profiling" to stop, we have to discuss cases like this that feed the fear that causes progiling. We have to discuss crime statistics that feed the fear.

If we want a better, safer world for all our kids, people need to stop being offended, and engage in that discussion

Because the killers in both cases were immediately arrested, charged, and will most definitely be convicted. Unlike Zimmerman who had millions of supporters, who helped to raise hundreds of thousands of dollars to pay for his defense, the killers in those two cases are not going to have anyone supporting them or slandering the victim.

ETA: On WS, how many cases are there where the case is still a big news story a year later? It's extremely uncommon, whether the case is solved or not.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

The reason there is pushback when race is discussed in a black-on-white crime is -

1. It inevitably is used as "proof" of something deeper in a way that does not happen in white-on-white, white-on-black, or black-on-black crime. This is because people of color are never allowed, in daily life, to just be individuals. They are always held as some sort of representation of blacks as a whole. Think how it feels when you are a average black man who can never lose his temper legitimately because you are simply having a crap day - and why? Because all the white folks will be thinking "oh, he's just a an uppity black guy". Or "those black men are so prone to anger and violence! Can't control themselves!" You ar never allowed to be just individual YOU, a human being.

2-Because if there is a "double standard" in talking about race, the white community, being the majority, privileged community, does not suffer the same detriment that a marginalized, minority community does. Whites own the government, the media, most businesses, etc. Whites have access to power to a degree that marginalized and minority communities never will. When marginalized people are shut out of a conversation, or denied access, the result is a real, actual detriment. No matter how hard people cry about "PC", they will never have their voices silenced or their access to power removed to the degree a minority marginalized community will.

I would go on... But I gotta gt ready to go out. Sorry for typos and convoluted reply, I'm rushing.

I agree...but...I don't think there should be any pushback reporting of any race if in fact racism does play a factor in a particular case.

This particular case has it all over James Edwards tweets. The media shouldn't label their titles the way they do. Creating a firestorm draws revenue for them. However, the online activity of these kids has been documented and real. Is media not supposed to publish that when it does coincide with the crime? James Edwards' comments show what kind of person he is. He chose to type those words. He chose his friends. His decisions have been his choices alone. IMO when taking into consideration all of his social media, he is one of the most racist young men I've ever seen.

But it doesn't top there.

I looked at some of those people that left those hateful comments on his Facebook, Twitter & Instagram. They're absolutely awful. All colors posted bad things. I saw the agenda some of the white commenters had, some linked with the Aryan Brotherhood - and it scares me bc this should never be a race war.

You cannot fight racism with more racism. It'll never work. There has to be another way.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I have to run because I have a house full of teens in need of a ride to the mall lol. Thank you all for the discussion and if I am not on time out when I return later Ill be glad to continue the discussion. eace:

I hope you won't be. This discussion opens up doors. :winkkiss:

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I agree...but...I don't think there should be any pushback reporting of any race if in fact racism does play a factor in a particular case.

This particular case has it all over James Edwards tweets. The media shouldn't label their titles the way they do. Creating a firestorm draws revenue for them. However, the online activity of these kids has been documented and real. Is media not supposed to publish that when it does coincide with the crime? James Edwards' comments show what kind of person he is. He chose to type those words. He chose his friends. His decisions have been his choices alone. IMO when taking into consideration all of his social media, he is one of the most racist young men I've ever seen.

But it doesn't top there.

I looked at some of those people that left those hateful comments on his Facebook, Twitter & Instagram. They're absolutely awful. All colors posted bad things. I saw the agenda some of the white commenters had, some linked with the Aryan Brotherhood - and it scares me bc this should never be a race war.

You cannot fight racism with more racism. It'll never work. There has to be another way.

CNN had a headline about the tweets pretty much all day on Thursday (I think).

 

[stmarysmead]

The problem is not with any race. I have volunteered in inner city schools and in poor schools in white Appalachia. The look and culture is almost identical among the Youth..the gang signals, the filthy language, the dress "code", tatoos, and the anger. So, no one race owns this...nor should any Black person feel a "representation" of anyone other than himself. Does my daughter have to feel that being might judge her because of Casey Anthony?

Whites do not own a government where the President, Attorney General, Judges, police chiefs, etc are Black. Please give us credit for the advancements we have made. But please understand, people fear these Gangsta teens for a reason. In a way, the Thugs who terrorized GZ's neighborhood, these teens who killed this Australian, the ones who beat this elderly man to desth last night...THEY BEAR the responsibility for fear and negativity. THEY cause profiling. Profiling of young Gangsta wannabbees of all colors. Even if they are bluffing.

We need to address this as not Blacks or Whites, but as Humans who share a mutual problem.

 

[stmarysmead]

Why are you not as angry with the rich white men responsible for pushing gangsta rap and gangsta culture? Or the suburban white boys who buy so much of it?

Yes, I am. A million times, YES!

 

[eileenhawkeye]

The problem is not with any race. I have volunteered in inner city schools and in poor schools in white Appalachia. The look and culture is almost identical among the Youth..the gang signals, the filthy language, the dress "code", tatoos, and the anger. So, no one race owns this...nor should any Black person feel a "representation" of anyone other than himself. Does my daughter have to feel that being might judge her because of Casey Anthony?

Whites do not own a government where the President, Attorney General, Judges, police chiefs, etc are Black. Please give us credit for the advancements we have made. But please understand, people fear these Gangsta teens for a reason. In a way, the Thugs who terrorized GZ's neighborhood, these teens who killed this Australian, the ones who beat this elderly man to desth last night...THEY BEAR the responsibility for fear and negativity. THEY cause profiling.

We need to address this as not Blacks or Whites, but as Humans who share a mutual problem.

No one is going to judge your daughter because of Casey Anthony, but many will judge all black teenagers because of Chris's killers.

Why do white people fear "gangsta teens" when they are more likely to be killed by someone they know? We always hear about white people killing white people on WS, yet there's no fear of fellow white people?

 

[Jersey*Girl]

No matter how many white people we hear about who are abusing, raping, and murdering people, they will never be seen as a representative of the entire race. They will always be seen as an individual. White people won't be judged by their actions. However, when a black person commits a crime, it's seen as something that all black people do.

This is so sad to me bc I think for myself and would never judge the mistakes of one person (or even a group of people actually) on an entire race. I don't surround myself and my children with people that judge that way either.

 

[stmarysmead]

Because the killers in both cases were immediately arrested, charged, and will most definitely be convicted. Unlike Zimmerman who had millions of supporters, who helped to raise hundreds of thousands of dollars to pay for his defense, the killers in those two cases are not going to have anyone supporting them or slandering the victim.

ETA: On WS, how many cases are there where the case is still a big news story a year later? It's extremely uncommon, whether the case is solved or not.

Every action has a reaction. Zimmermann's support probably was a reaction to the media doctoring the 9-11 tape, pixilating the injury pictures, using a child's photo instead of a current one. Differences of opinion on the Stand Your Ground law...and a discussion of Profiling without factoring the crime stats in that community might be a factor. The fact that TM's Mother, pre-trial was public speaking and raising money...might have caused others to have donated to GZ to ensure a fair representation for him at trial.

As for slandering the "victim"...the Mother in the Stroller Killing is being slandered as we speak...even though the accomplice pretty much ratted out the shooter.

The TM case provided a vehicle for many grievances to be aired...in specials on TV...on the floor of Congress, from the President. But the death of Eve Carson, the Channon case, just are a blip, a nod, a story relegated quickly to page three. Their parents are not sought out for interviews. Eve's sweater that she wore as they shot her, pleading, in the street, was never considered for a museum exhibit.

This case should be a vehicle for discussion too. Because avoiding hurt feelings is killing our kids.