OK - Donald 'Joe' Neff, 61, Poteau, 14 May 2009 - #1

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So, it's someone who knew of your father's business, his home and his hours of work. Plus a place to hide him.
 
nursebeeme said:
missingmydad,
I can feel how much you miss your Dad! I cannot imagine what you have been going thru! You can bet your bottom dollar that websleuthers will keep on this for as long as it takes!

The red truck.... wow. That is good information.

As per the safe. I think that whomever did this obviously knew where your Dad kept his money from his business.

Question: what, if anything, was missing from the safe? Was anyone jealous of him in his business endeavors? Were any of his friends in the position of owing others money that they may have found your Dad to be the "bank"?

My prayers and thoughts are soooo with you missingmydad. Your Dad deserves justice and I for one am willing to stick with you until you get that.
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thank you so much! ok the articles relating to the red truck are in the poteau daily news & sun, the heavener ledger, the daily oklahoman, and channel 40/29 hometown news, channel 5 those are both out of ft smith arkansas, we are only about 30 minutes from the state line. we found out that had they taken him over the state line to dump him the fbi would have been called in asap. by the way earlier someone asked if it is normal for the us marshal to be called in on a murder case, has anyone ever heard of that before? and in answer to last question, dad loaned money to all kinds of people, he was an atm for many, but he was happy to help everyone and always taught me to never loan more than you are willing to give, just in case they don't pay you back. he was a great dad, THE BEST.
 
gliving said:
So, it's someone who knew of your father's business, his home and his hours of work. Plus a place to hide him.
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and they knew his routine and when to catch him alone, i never thought his hours were that predictable, but he did go get the bar ready to open every day. but the time he showed up varied
 
YellowDog said:
Maybe he was just badly wounded at the bar and the murder took place somewhere else later that day.
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i have ran that scenario through my mind about 800 times or more as well.i wonder if just an injury occured at the bar and they rushed him away from there as to not get caught, then killed him later. i just wonder about the safe and how they got into it if he were dead. they would not have killed him until they knew they could get in it. but who in the world would load up someone bleeding and haul them away. what if they would have been pulled over? how would you explain that? this just still makes no sense to me, he was such a great person. this sounds like they hated him since it was so brutal. we honestly have no idea. i think about it all day every day i do not sleep and i have not returned to work yet, i just do this all the time. i do not know anything about the gf i think she had said her family was from here at some point, she has lived all over. many states. dad had dated her about a year or so when he was killed
 
I really think the girlfriend - as the one to find the scene and possibily the last one to see Joe, should be thoroughly investigated.

Salem
 
Salem said:
I really think the girlfriend - as the one to find the scene and possibily the last one to see Joe, should be thoroughly investigated.

Salem
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actually it only takes maybe 30 minutes to get to red oak from here. i have hardly heard anything else on that missing family and i live right here. you would think it would be more publisized. and the gf was supposed to start her work shift that day. she worked there and she was to open at noon and showed up about 10 or so til. everyone that was around, plus 100 's more have been talked to by the le. they just formed a new task force though, but i cannot really figure out why the us marshal is involved i am very pleased but i just did not know they investigated murders. i am so thrilled to see that people have not given up on finding the killer(s) i would love for this to be solved
 
missingmydad said:
i have ran that scenario through my mind about 800 times or more as well.i wonder if just an injury occured at the bar and they rushed him away from there as to not get caught, then killed him later. i just wonder about the safe and how they got into it if he were dead. they would not have killed him until they knew they could get in it. but who in the world would load up someone bleeding and haul them away. what if they would have been pulled over? how would you explain that? this just still makes no sense to me, he was such a great person. this sounds like they hated him since it was so brutal. we honestly have no idea. i think about it all day every day i do not sleep and i have not returned to work yet, i just do this all the time. i do not know anything about the gf i think she had said her family was from here at some point, she has lived all over. many states. dad had dated her about a year or so when he was killed
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I'm telling ya, I get the feeling this perp is a very bold person or one that acted on a moment of passion, was desperate, and just got lucky. Think about all the ways and places they could have accosted your dad, at his home for example. Instead they do this in broad daylight at his public business right before people would show up? And then take him to his house where people might go looking for him, and then drive him 20 miles out to the strip pit probably still alive? The way it went down was not ideal and could have gone wrong for the perp in so many ways. Makes me think that this wasn't preplanned.

I wonder if someone needed a large amount of money, or a certain item out of the safe and your dad told that person no, argument happens and things go downhill from there.
 
Hugs to you missingmydad, I am very sorry for your loss.

It seems I was about the fourth sleuth to mention the missing family. I think we are all connecting that dot because there was money involved there also.

As for the girlfriend - is she still in town? Have you talked with her? Did she attend the services for your dad? If so, did you talk to or see her that day? I'm wondering what her "persona" was like? I'm sure you were too upset at the time to pay any attention - so don't worry about answering that.

I agree with you, I think your dad was attacked at the bar and who ever attacked him called someone at your dad's house to open the safe. So... it seems to me that a minimum of 2 people were involved here. If they would have taken your dad back to his house, LE would have found traces of blood and/or other evidence that your wounded dad had been there.

So the question is - who called your dad's house and what phones were used? Did the perps have their own phones? Probably. BUT if not, and one of them used your dad's phone, it would show up on his records. Has LE obtained all records for the cell and house phones? Incoming and outgoing calls? You should check with them. They probably have this information, but you should have them confirm that with you.

I believe LE is smart and that they know what they are doing - however, I also believe that with many individuals involved, it is important that you have info verified and confirmed. One officer might think another is doing something and that other thinks someone else is doing it and it doesn't get done. Or they may have thought to do something, but something else came up, they were distracted and it didn't get done. Asking for confirmation never hurts. They may wish you wouldn't ask so many questions, but the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Persistence and patience are virtures, in my opinion.

I praying that answers are found and justice is served.

Salem
 
SuziQ - why to you think Joe was taken to his house from the bar? Was there evidence of that somewhere?

TIA,

Salem
 
Great theory about two perps. Very interesting and very possible.
 
SuziQ said:
Great theory about two perps. Very interesting and very possible.
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It just seems if Joe was taken back to his house and he was wounded, as evidenced by the blood at the bar, some evidence of that would have been found at the house, on the sidewalk, on the floor, on a counter?

Salem
 
Salem said:
SuziQ - why to you think Joe was taken to his house from the bar? Was there evidence of that somewhere?

TIA,

Salem
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Because I don't think the one perp, would have killed him before getting that safe open and getting out of the safe whatever it was they wanted. If they killed him before and the safe didn't open, they would have been screwed.

The two perps though, one at the bar and one waiting at the house is an interesting thought. So who had the key to the safe though?
 
IMO, if they didn't need him to be at the safe to open it, they probably would have just left him at the bar and killed him there.
 
SuziQ said:
Because I don't think the one perp, would have killed him before getting that safe open and getting out of the safe whatever it was they wanted. If they killed him before and the safe didn't open, they would have been screwed.

The two perps though, one at the bar and one waiting at the house is an interesting thought. So who had the key to the safe though?
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Good point about the key. I forgot it was both key and combination. Maybe both perps met him at the bar - one took the key - the other held onto Joe.

I would think if this is what happened - there would be some cell shedding near the safe? If they beat Joe up to get the key and make him talk, which I am sure they did - whoever used that key to open the safe likely had Joe's skin cells on his hands and clothes - which could possibly have shed off near that safe. I guess that doesn't help though because you would expect to find Joe's skin cells there anyway. But if the perp injured his hands - maybe some of his skin shed off.

Was the safe gone over with a fine tooth comb for fingerprints and skin cells? Do we know?

Salem
 
SuziQ said:
IMO, if they didn't need him to be at the safe to open it, they probably would have just left him at the bar and killed him there.
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Do you think maybe they held him in the truck until the safe was opened, never taking him back into the house?

Do we know exactly what LE found when they discovered the safe had been broken into?

Salem
 
Dear missingmydad,
I am so sorry for your loss, I just cannot imagine the pain and hope I never have to feel it. I looked at the pictures of your dad's bar and it broke my heart, what a great looking place to hang out.
I have a question. Was your dad a fisherman and if so, did he fish at the strip mine where he was found?
 
ok i am gonna try to catch up a little. i do not think they ever brought him back to the house i came back here and never seen anything i thought looked out of place. i feel like they used their own cell phones and talked on the way to strip pit while the other perp was here at house getting into safe and the other perp or 2 had dad on the way to pocola and whether or not he was dead i have no idea but i feel like no, if he was dead they had no way to be sure they could get into the safe. they needed him alive, just in case. as far as the day of the funeral i remember it but barely and i was told the gf was there with a guy friend and did not cry but you know how rumors go, we have heard a million. i have talked with her several times since then but not only once or twice since aug.
 
he used to fish when he was younger but no, he did not ever fish in recent years. his passion was horseback riding and he would go to colorado and new mexico and ride horses and camp. i am so thankful that he was able to do what he loved before this tragedy.
 
maybe there were even 3 perps, one at house and 2 to get him, my dad was very strong and would not have went without a fight and my guess would be they would have to have hurt him bad to have gotten control of him.
 
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