OK - Donald 'Joe' Neff, 61, Poteau, 14 May 2009 - #1

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he used to fish when he was younger but no, he did not ever fish in recent years. his passion was horseback riding and he would go to colorado and new mexico and ride horses and camp. i am so thankful that he was able to do what he loved before this tragedy.

What a wonderful life he led! From what we have heard from you and all the other posts from different places, your dad was definitely the cream of the crop!

My thoughts on the that did this to your dad. It may be possible they are not local in Poteau, but somewhere near the area where he was found. They fish that area frequently and knew it would be the best place. How they connected to your father may be that they would come to the bar, see what a successful business he had and started making plans.

My prayers are with you and your family. I wish I had known him.
 
Do you think maybe they held him in the truck until the safe was opened, never taking him back into the house?

Do we know exactly what LE found when they discovered the safe had been broken into?

Salem

IDK. What was the layout of the home outside? Are their neighbors close by? Yes, more information on the safe would be great.

From following the Christian/Newsom trial, I learned that victims that are either outnumbered or outgunned will have no defensive wounds and their surroundings won't be disturbed.
 
well he was awesome and i dont know how i will continue to make it without him he was my rock. i am daddys girl through and through. ok as far as safe goes i dont really know.i have never been with him when it was opened so i am not sure, but the house was in perfect order and if there was a lot of blood at bar then they did not take him into the house or they would have tracked blood. there are neighbors but no real close this is in the country so the closest person is about 1/2 a city block and not lined up. dads house sits closer to the road than next door. this happened about 11 am or so, broad daylight, they are either very brave or very stupid.
 
the bar was a pretty busy place there is so many people i would not know. i used to go there but i have not been out to any bar in years. so the crowd there has changed i am sure. the strip pit i commented on in an earlier post, u can google map it and see it from air view and it would be very hard to find if u didnt know about it but they could have known about it as a kid, who knows, it is an old strip pit. the jody rilee wilson death, she was found dead on may 8th and had been dead 2-3 days and my dad killed may 14, found 17th, i have even wondered if there could be a coonection with all of these, and the family missing out of the vehicle, crazy. could there be a serial killer and he just doesnt have a routine yet? they have ruled hers a suspicious death even though her car was found couple of hours away, how did she get back here dead if she was not killed? she was found just about 10-15 minutes from the bar. it is all just really close ya know. i even wondered if dad riding horses or something ever ran across something he should not have seen or overheard something that maybe he should not have heard at the bar and it was to keep him from talking but then that would mess up the theory of the house safe. i wish we had a sattelite and we could rewind it to that day and see what happened outside that bar and who took him away. wouldnt that be nice?
 
Good morning.

How far is it from Joe's house to his bar? And who would know the contents of the safe and how much money was taken? Was it just an estimate or maybe he kept records?

Did he buy and sell horses? I looking for a reason he might have gone back to his house before he opened the bar. Did he take the Napa part home and then go to the bar?
 
Just waking up.. some how didn't see a page of posts..
Will come back later to reread once I'm up more.

i am daddys girl through and through

How often did you see your dad?

ok as far as safe goes i dont really know.i have never been with him when it was opened so i am not sure, but the house was in perfect order

Do you know where his safe is kept? Do you know what type of safe it is?

and if there was a lot of blood at bar then they did not take him into the house or they would have tracked blood.

You said if there was a lot of blood at the bar do you not know?

there are neighbors but no real close this is in the country so the closest person is about 1/2 a city block and not lined up. dads house sits closer to the road than next door. this happened about 11 am or so, broad daylight, they are either very brave or very stupid.

It would be nice to know where his house is in relation to everything else.
I sent you an email the other day, did you get it?

thank you so much! ok the articles relating to the red truck are in the poteau daily news & sun, the heavener ledger, the daily oklahoman, and channel 40/29 hometown news, channel 5 those are both out of ft smith arkansas,

An actual link would be nice.
Find the article and copy the URL, then paste it in here
Some of those sites, once the article gets older you can't access it. Ran into dead ends with Jody.

his cell phone was never recovered.

Depending on who his cell coverage is with, you would be able to log in online to get a print out of phone calls. Did you ever request one?
If not, you want to do that asap to view his incoming and outgoing calls.
If he viewed his cell bill online, his user account may be stored in his computer. It's also possible to recover the history, etc from his computer.

If you are not sure, you can call the cell company to request it; or speak to the new task force to have them get it.

as far as the day of the funeral i remember it but barely and i was told the gf was there with a guy friend and did not cry but you know how rumors go, we have heard a million. i have talked with her several times since then but not only once or twice since aug.

If the GF was involved, my opinion is that she wouldn't have shown up at the bar that day. He looked like a big man, how would she kill him then move his body?

How well did you know the GF?
How big is she? Age?
At my dad's funeral, just about everyone that came, came over to me to offer me condolences. I would think the GF would be sitting by family?

Was the safe dusted?
 
Ok, so is there anyone you know of in your personal life that has had a tragedy lately? maybe tragedy is to strong a word because this is a tragedy :(

Someone who was sick and needed money for health reasons?
Someone who gambled a lot?
Someone who has recently had their home renovated?
Someone who has reported their car, or anything you could use in violence as stolen?
With as much blood as you said the papers reported, do you know if there were any signs he faught back? Maybe the perp had scratches, bruises, walked weird from hurt ribs back or neck? anything suspicious like that?
Anyone not around for an extended amount of time or anyone close to you who is acting strange, even if there is no way you would ever consider it being them?
 
i have ran that scenario through my mind about 800 times or more as well.i wonder if just an injury occured at the bar and they rushed him away from there as to not get caught, then killed him later. i just wonder about the safe and how they got into it if he were dead. they would not have killed him until they knew they could get in it. but who in the world would load up someone bleeding and haul them away. what if they would have been pulled over? how would you explain that? this just still makes no sense to me, he was such a great person. this sounds like they hated him since it was so brutal. we honestly have no idea. i think about it all day every day i do not sleep and i have not returned to work yet, i just do this all the time. i do not know anything about the gf i think she had said her family was from here at some point, she has lived all over. many states. dad had dated her about a year or so when he was killed

What if the blood in the bar was not your Dad's, but the blood of the attacker? Perhaps your Dad slugged him first and then the attacker pulled a gun and forced your Dad to take him to the house where he was ordered to open the safe. This would mean, of course, that your Dad was killed later.....maybe even at the strip pit.
 
More

Did they search the pit for a gun?

And along the same lines as Angels_Not_Forgotten, but another way; has someone recently purchased something that made you wonder how they could afford it? TV, ATV, hunting gear, new truck, nice vacation?

Did your dad have a gun collection? What did he do for fun besides his horses?

Keep hope!
 
Had your father had any type of work done on his house in the last year or so where workers would have been able to find there was a safe?
Was he known to ever loan people money where they knew he got the money out of his safe?
Was there any type of change in his girlfriend after his murder where it seemed she was spending money she didn't have before, expensive clothes, new car, trip? Did she have a job before the murder and if so, is she still working there?

It's possible that someone knew about the money in his safe and mentioned it to someone else.

I'm very sorry for your loss!

VB
 
How thoroughly did LE check out the strip pit? If the cell phone wasn't found and may be in the water, something else of evidentiary value might be in the water too. I know strip pits can be very deep and diving conditions very, very murky.

Like gliving (above), I'm very interested in this pit and how well it was searched. Here in NE OK, strip pits and mines have long been used for disposal of not only bodies but instruments of the crime as well. Pits can be very deep and, as I said above, diving conditions are usually less than ideal.
 
Did Joe sell/buy items on Craigslist or a Big Nickle paper? Did he surf the internet? Even though he had a girlfriend, did he visit dating sites like match.com?
 
I am confused about the initial media-Joe was reported missing on WED by the gf but seen at a store on Thursday?
 
just to clarify: nothing happened on may 13th, may 14th he was seen at two area stores at around 10 am before noon same day they discovered the crime scene. may 15th safe broken into discovered, may 17th his body was found around 4pm

This is what I see, and I understand what you're saying. So missingmydad, the 13th was normal, the 14 he was at the store, seen by 2 people disappeared the same day, and the 15th was when the safe was discovered broken into, correct?
 
no calls were suspicious, yes I think it a local, probably money, why would they haul his body away? why not leave it there, they never wanted it to be found i guess.yes lots of drugs here like anywhere i guess, i hear of it but i cant see that being related to his death , but i never thought he would have been murdered either. so anything is possible.

I would have to say this is definately someone close to your father, someone who knew his routine. Was there any sign of the killer(s) trying to clean up the crime scene?

I am going to bet this was premeditated.
 
This is just my thoughts- I would look to the gf for her hand in this, who better to know your dad's movements than her. You can google her name and see if any links pop up, unless it is a common name. Check myspace and facebook to see if she has accounts, check out what she is saying or not.

She could be the mastermind behind this.
 
well he was awesome and i dont know how i will continue to make it without him he was my rock. i am daddys girl through and through. ok as far as safe goes i dont really know.i have never been with him when it was opened so i am not sure, but the house was in perfect order and if there was a lot of blood at bar then they did not take him into the house or they would have tracked blood. there are neighbors but no real close this is in the country so the closest person is about 1/2 a city block and not lined up. dads house sits closer to the road than next door. this happened about 11 am or so, broad daylight, they are either very brave or very stupid.

First, let me say that I am so sorry to read here -- I also read the posts on Topix -- of your tremendous loss.

I will recommend that you create a known timeline and a known fact sheet and post both here in this thread. The judgment of people is usually no better than their facts, and as I read through the posts and links (google search), I found it a bit difficult to square off established facts.

For example

Did the coroner establish the time of your Father's death?

What caliber bullet was used to murder your Father?

How many times was he shot and exactly where?

Did LE recover footprints or tire tracks from the strip mine where your Father's body was found? Had it rained in the area between the 14th and the 17th?

Did it appear that his body was dragged to where it was found? Or did it appear that his body was dumped there? Or did it appear that he might have suffered a final shot there -- recognizing that substantial blood is said to have been found in the bar.

Did your Father's body show any evidence of defensive wounds?

Was he found tied in any way?

Recognizing that he wore a hat in an online picture? Did LE find a hat where his body was found?

How much money was taken? I read but that 'thousands' were taken. Have they established how many 'thousands' were taken?

Was your Father's vehicle found at the bar or at his home or elsewhere?

Did LE check his vehicle for fingerprints?

Does LE have reason to suspect that more than one person was involved in your father's murder.

Is there any reason to think (common evidence basis) that your Father's murder is related to other unsolved murders in the area?

What more is known about the red truck; that is, age, make, dirty, van, pick-up, etc.?

This troubles me

It would seem that LE found substantial blood in the bar on the 14th, yet they did not determine that your Father's safe was opened (home) until the 15th. What transpired on the 14th and why the delay? When were you or other family members notified?

A few thoughts

From the little I know, this appears likely to be a cold blooded murder. Generally, murder is something that criminals advance to doing. In other words, I suspect that the person or persons that murdered your Father likely committed other crimes prior to this act. As such, there's a decent chance they have a criminal record.

Next, robbery is usually based on need, particularly armed robbery -- though it's not a given, from what I know, that your Father did not surprise someone burglarizing his home. People who face such critical monetary needs that they feel a need to kill might well be unemployed (creates need).

As has often been noted, the fact that the strip mine would only be known to locals logically appears to be a very reasonable limiting factor, which would move the murderer being but a passer by way down on the list of probabilities.

Finally, I suspect LE is not giving you much in the way of information. If so, make sure you and/or other family members keep requesting progress reports, and do ask for a bit more information with each call. It doesn't hurt to ask and as time passes, it's likely that ever fewer LE resources will be dedicated to your Father's case unless it is solved. And should LE's resources ramp down, you will want to have as many case facts as possible to work with.

God bless your Father, you and your family.
 
Portions snipped from http://www.helpfindthemissing.org/forum/showthread.php?t=13949&page=2 as the original report is not longer available.

Neff, 61, owned the Long Branch Saloon, a popular bar tucked in the woods off State Highway 59 between Poteau and Heavener. The bar offered patrons a refuge for drinking, dancing and socializing, and Neff an excuse to hang out with long-time friends.

Neff decorated the bar after his favorite Old West saloon, even down to the swinging wooden doors he handcrafted for the entrance. On Sundays, he fed his patrons for free with big pots of chili and soup.

"I liked Joe,” said Bruce Curnutt, Le Flore County sheriff. "I never had a problem with Joe. He ran a nice, clean operation. No drugs, no fights ... just a clean operation.”


Fishermen found Neff’s body May 17 about 12 miles north near Pocola, an old mining town of 4,000 people on the Arkansas border. He died from a gunshot wound to the head, said Cherokee Ballard, state medical examiner spokeswoman.

"I think there were at least two men,” Curnutt said. "Joe was a strong, stout guy. It would’ve taken two men to carry him out of that bar and two to dump his body. I also think whoever did this either lives in the Pocola area or has lived there in the past. That’s a remote area where he was found, and they had been there before.”

Curnutt watched as $740 in cash was removed from Neff’s shirt pocket.

"This wasn’t a robbery,” Curnutt said. "This was personal.”


My question: Did Joe usually keep large sums of money in his pocket or is this unusual for him? Was he going to buy something or had he just sold something?
 
Have the salesmen/suppliers/delivery people been checked out? Was there a new person on the route for the bar?
 
why not take the 740? I mean, whoever they were, were so obsessed with money, they go to his home and take that. But not what's in his pocket? Was the bar money cleared out too? meaning, was the money still in the register and any safe's at the bar?
 
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