Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #4 *Arrests*

[bluevioletfour]

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[Knitty]

MOD NOTE: A reminder straight from Etiquette & Information, linked below this post.

"VICTIM FRIENDLY

Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. Attacking or bashing a victim is not allowed. Discussing known victim behavior, good or bad is fine, but do so in a civil and constructive way, and only when such behavior is known to be relevant to the case.

The "victim friendly" rule extends to family members of victims and suspects. Sleuthing family members, friends, or others who have not been officially designated by law enforcement or in mainstream media as a Person of Interest or suspect is not allowed (i.e. Sleuthing out this type of information, and publicly posting their social media, personal information, including names, addresses, and background data -- even if it is public is not allowed and such posts will be removed, along with any posts that encourage such sleuthing).

This does not mean, however, that statements made by family members and other third parties cannot come into discussion as the facts of the case are reported in the media. Members may reasonably discuss what is said in MSM by them or about them, but do not make random accusations, insinuations, suggest their involvement, trash, bash or attack them, or speculate negatively about them."

If you have info you wish to discuss that doesn't belong on the thread, make a private conversation and discuss it all you'd like.

Thanks for helping us keep Websleuths like Tricia has always intended.

Knitty,
Moderator

 

[Knitty]

MOD NOTE - URGENT, PLEASE READ:

Some of the documents are now accessible again. Some are not - it appears from our frantic mod/admin review that those no longer available contain sensitive information about the children, names of non--case players, etc.

Websleuths tries very hard to be cooperative with the needs of law enforcement and the courts. We don't know for sure why they were taken down, but since those documents are no longer available, discussing what is in them is not allowed.

Thanks,

Knitty,
Moderator

Edit: Please note that the children in this case are identifiable because of this case and those documents that are not available. They may read here one day. If it's not in the available docs, please don't discuss it.

 

[MadMcGoo]

^^^ AS A REMINDER ^^^

IF THE INFORMATION YOU POST CAN NOT BE FOUND IN AN APPROVED MAINSTREAM MEDIA LINK, A STATEMENT RELEASED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT, OR AN OTHERWISE APPROVED SOURCE, YOU MAY NOT DISCUSS IT.

The currently available court documents pertaining to VB are easily accessible to the public and allowed to be linked and discussed here (as several members have been doing). Court documents no longer accessible to the public via the government site or other approved sources are off limits unless they’re reported by the MSM.

Links are REQUIRED when posting anything as fact. If you want to discuss it, provide a source link.

Members choosing to disregard this and other instructions from Administrators or Moderators will have their posting privileges suspended. Zero Tolerance.

 

[Knitty]

MOD NOTE:

Quick note - I haven't seen an official missing page posted yet. As members are indicating there are several, PLEASE make sure anything you bring here is from the OFFICIAL page. Look at "People" to make sure it's run by family and not by random true crime creators, etc.

Remember that only posts by the administrator of the official page can be brought here. More info at the Social Media link below this post.

Thanks!!!!

(And thank you also for keeping the info within what you can actually link!)

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

This post lands at random.

The location of any of the children in this case is absolutely OFF LIMITS. That includes Veronica's children, Jilian's children, or any children of the accused. Do not ask where they may be, suggest where they may be, or hint that you know where they may be. Do not discuss their whereabouts in any way.

ZERO TOLERANCE

 

[Tricia]

Look, people have already posted Grice's FB. There is no need to keep sleuthing Grice. We do not know what his part in this horrible crime truly is at the moment. Feel free to discuss what, if any, his part really was in this crime. Until LE comes out and says he is a POI let's stop the sleuthing OK?
Tricia

 

[MadMcGoo]

Please take the time to review the Admin and Mod Notes above before continuing the discussion here.

 

[YourM0m]

EDIT: I tried to add a post from last thread, but failed miserably. Thank you @otto for answering the question of where the stun guns were purchased & giving info about the store.

Thanks for answering otto! This Big R sounds a lot like where we buy our supplies. So, theoretically you could purchase both cattle prods & stun guns there. My money is still on the purchase of actual stun guns.

 

[Synergizer Bunny]

One of the things that confuses me about the visitation hand-off is why wasn't there a neutral place like the police station used for drop-off and pick-up of the children?? Has this been discussed? This relationship between TA and VB sounds very acrimonious. You'd think that this type of exchange would be ordered by the court to ensure that everything went smoothly.

JMO.

 

[Berrybell]

Does anyone know how many members attended God's Misfits church?

 

[Scatcat]

Poor Veronica and Jillian

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Reference a possible type of flatbed truck up thread (I.e. post #1003 in three 3 and the antecedent message post #960 in thread #3) - link below:

I was attempting to clarify - that absent pictures of the vehicle - one cannot be certain, although it might be such as this image here. Typically referred to as a roll-back truck TMK, or flat bed ‘tow’ truck. I was not referring to a pick up truck or pick up flat bed, rather something larger. And which could be used to haul another vehicle or a skid-steer.

It is not certain what type of vehicle the witness was referring to, but IIRC it was only indicated as a ‘flatbed truck’. MOO

Post in thread 'OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #3 *Arrests*'
OK - OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #3 *Arrests*

 

[sunspun]

why wasn't there a neutral place like the police station used for drop-off and pick-up of the children??

In one of the court documents from the custody case, it says that they used to have LE there at the child exchange time for safety reasons, and that this was by VB's request. HOWEVER, it also says that they stopped doing that, despite VB continuing to request this, because the cops decided it was UNNECESSARY! So they thought she was just saying they needed to be there, probably to make TA and/or Wrangler look bad, when really she was at no risk from them, so no need for LE to come anymore. And this is documented, on record, of them saying this, so I hope this comes up later.

 

[otto]

One of the things that confuses me about the visitation hand-off is why wasn't there a neutral place like the police station used for drop-off and pick-up of the children?? Has this been discussed? This relationship between TA and VB sounds very acrimonious. You'd think that this type of exchange would be ordered by the court to ensure that everything went smoothly.

JMO.

That's a very good question. When the court order was put in place, the lawyers should have discussed the hand-over location for the children. Either Veronica's lawyer failed to ensure that it was a public place, or Tifany and Wrangler's lawyer, and the Judge, decided that an abandoned building was good enough.

In Veronica's March 13, 2024 affidavit, where she requested unsupervised and increased visitation, she also specified meeting in Elkhart rather than the abandoned Four Corners building. That hearing was scheduled for tomorrow.

 

[otto]

Reference a possible type of flatbed truck up thread (I.e. post #1003 in three 3 and the antecedent message post #960 in thread #3) - link below:

I was attempting to clarify - that absent pictures of the vehicle - one cannot be certain, although it might be such as this image here. Typically referred to as a roll-back truck TMK, or flat bed ‘tow’ truck. I was not referring to a pick up truck or pick up flat bed, rather something larger. And which could be used to haul another vehicle or a skid-steer.

It is not certain what type of vehicle the witness was referring to, but IIRC it was only indicated as a ‘flatbed truck’. MOO
Post in thread 'OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #3 *Arrests*'
OK - OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #3 *Arrests*

I'm guessing that Cole Twombly's flat bed truck was used to transport the skid steer loader to the burial location, and then back to Twombly's cattle ranch. If so, and to be consistent with Tifany's claim that Veronica cancelled the visit, then the plan was to remove Veronica's car from Hwy 95 and Road L. Why bring a flat bed truck to a murder scene where the vehicle is evidence?

 

[Synergizer Bunny]

In one of the court documents from the custody case, it says that they used to have LE there at the child exchange time for safety reasons, and that this was by VB's request. HOWEVER, it also says that they stopped doing that, despite VB continuing to request this, because the cops decided it was UNNECESSARY! So they thought she was just saying they needed to be there, probably to make TA and/or Wrangler look bad, when really she was at no risk from them, so no need for LE to come anymore. And this is documented, on record, of them saying this, so I hope this comes up later.

Wow. Can LE be sued for negligence? If so, I can see both victims' families suing. This is such a tragedy for the families and the children. I guess that they will also sue all of the murderers, too.

JMO.

 

[Herat]

I recall a statement that the skip loader was at the Beasley property on March 29 and March 30 and gone by the morning of March 31.

I don't think they had the skip loader with them at the time VB and JK were kidnapped and forced from the road.

 

[Eli9]

Bringing over my post from the last thread on the stun gun
Mentioned in the affidavit as "stun guns purchased from Big R in Guymon."
They don't have a huge variety, 3 to be precise, but here is one. It's different that I thought it would look like. Only 40$

Sabre Maximum Strength Tactical Stun Gun With LED Flashlight

Big R is the top merchant for your home, farm, and ranch. We supply pet, clothing, footwear, sporting goods, hardware, automotive and more. Almost Anything, Big R's Got It!

bigronline.com

Product Overview:

• EXTREME STOPPING POWER! DELIVERS MORE PAIN THAN ANY OTHER STUN GUN ON MARKET: This stun gun has an industry leading 2.517 µC charge (intolerable pain) based on independent tests by Rassettica Testing Limited [see certificate on left]
• DEFENDS UP CLOSE AND AT A DISTANCE: Intimidating 95 dB sound & bright 130 Lumen LED flashlight with high, low and strobe settings may help disorient from a distance, possibly allowing you to escape to safety before needing to use the stun feature
• BUILT TOUGH AND READY WHEN YOU NEED IT: Durable aircraft grade aluminum construction; includes belt holster for instant access; safety switch prevents accidental discharge; includes rechargeable battery (cord included)
• KNOW HOW TO USE BEFORE YOU GO: Maximize Your Safety. You can learn how to use your SABRE stun gun before you go out and about with access to a free online training video

 

[Herat]

I'm guessing that Cole Twombly's flat bed truck was used to transport the skid steer loader to the burial location, and then back to Twombly's cattle ranch. If so, and to be consistent with Tifany's claim that Veronica cancelled the visit, then the plan was to remove Veronica's car from Hwy 95 and Road L. Why bring a flat bed truck to a murder scene where the vehicle is evidence?

I think they needed a vehicle large enough to obstruct both lanes of traffic and the flatbed truck was as good as anything else. They could have used a semi truck if they'd had one, or even a pickup with an attached horse trailer.