Belinda
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You are correct. She was originally only arrested for obstruction and then it was apparently upgraded to conspiracy.
GUILTY OR - David, 61, & Marilyn Jondle, 58, murdered, Dallas, 31 Aug 2010
- Thread starter Missizzy
- Start date
You are correct. She was originally only arrested for obstruction and then it was apparently upgraded to conspiracy.
oceanblueeyes
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Well at least I got something right! LOL
It does happen often that both the girlfriend and the boyfriend will be involved in murdering one of their parents or their entire family.
Here is another case where it happened because the parents didnt approve of the girl's relationship with her boyfriend.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/03/erin-caffey-17-gets-2-lif_n_155013.html
Erin Caffey, 17, gets 2 life terms in family deaths
Authorities said Caffey, her boyfriend and two other co-defendants plotted to kill Caffey's parents because they didn't approve of her boyfriend. Caffey was 16 at the time of the crime.
Penny Caffey, 37, and her sons Mathew, 13, and Tyler, 8, died in the attack in March. Terry Caffey, 41, was shot five times but escaped from the burning house, saying he recognized Wilkinson shooting him and his wife in their bed, sheriff's officials said.
Caffey has since recovered from his gunshot wounds.
Asberger's Syndrome. (probably not diagnosed)
and
Calvary Chapel Dallas ( www.calvarydallasor.com )
A deadly combination.
IMO.
and
Calvary Chapel Dallas ( www.calvarydallasor.com )
A deadly combination.
IMO.
i.b.nora--I have to tell you that I about burst into tears when I read your post. That is exactly my thought. I've just been afraid to say it. We have a 19 year old who is on the spectrum and has Conduct Disorder. People initially think he's a kind and friendly young man but he is extremely impulsive and impressionable. He does not read social clues. He's been arrested for stalking and has been run out of numerous missions and churches for highly inappropriate behavior and vindictive actions. He's not only seriously assaulted me several times (once causing a concussion) but assaulted his birthmother only two weeks after locating her. We managed his behaviors for the 15 years he lived with us. Now he is in society and I stay in touch with mission directors and sheriffs where ever he shows up.
Churches will often welcome our son, only to find out too late that he does not have an understanding of boundaries, will not leave girls and women alone, and is prone to fighting. He has disturbed the peace at many churches and caused families to cease attending. He, too, has been inappropriate with older women. He will call anyone "mom" all while he's being sexually inappropriate. He's often relied on the kindness of church women and then has turned around and "peeped" at them, inappropriately touched them, and stolen from them. The only difference I see with Andrew Jondle is that our son has a paper trail ten miles long in this state due to going to public schools and accessing services available to him due to his adoptive status. We could have easily "hidden" many of his crimes when he was younger but we asked for help.
I have NO doubt in my mind that if our son came across a woman such as Cindy, all heck would break loose. He wants to please and be loved. He just doesn't know how to go about it in the right way. Because of this son (and one other with similar issues) we've been prevented from ever attending church. There was just no way that we could manage our sons' behavior in an environment of loving and welcoming (and highly naive) people.
Thank you for bringing up this very real possibility. I don't feel so alone in my concern.
Churches will often welcome our son, only to find out too late that he does not have an understanding of boundaries, will not leave girls and women alone, and is prone to fighting. He has disturbed the peace at many churches and caused families to cease attending. He, too, has been inappropriate with older women. He will call anyone "mom" all while he's being sexually inappropriate. He's often relied on the kindness of church women and then has turned around and "peeped" at them, inappropriately touched them, and stolen from them. The only difference I see with Andrew Jondle is that our son has a paper trail ten miles long in this state due to going to public schools and accessing services available to him due to his adoptive status. We could have easily "hidden" many of his crimes when he was younger but we asked for help.
I have NO doubt in my mind that if our son came across a woman such as Cindy, all heck would break loose. He wants to please and be loved. He just doesn't know how to go about it in the right way. Because of this son (and one other with similar issues) we've been prevented from ever attending church. There was just no way that we could manage our sons' behavior in an environment of loving and welcoming (and highly naive) people.
Thank you for bringing up this very real possibility. I don't feel so alone in my concern.
A new article about the Jondles:
http://www.statesmanjournal.com/article/20100905/NEWS/9050357/1001#ixzz0yrdNnndT
Slain farmers were noted for high standards
Acquaintances say their personalities, professional dealings were exemplary
"The brutal killing of a pair of mild-mannered Polk County farmers has stunned the local-food community, from fellow farmers to restaurant chefs to supporters of sustainable agriculture.
"Clearly, these folks are going to be missed in the sustainable-farming movement," said Stephen Perkins, owner of Cascade Baking Co. in Salem and a customer and friend of David Scott Jondle, 61, and Marilyn Ruth Jondle, 58.
Buying and consuming food grown and produced locally is the backbone of the "locavore" movement and central to the Abundant Life Farm, which the Jondles owned and operated...."
more at link
http://www.statesmanjournal.com/article/20100905/NEWS/9050357/1001#ixzz0yrdNnndT
Slain farmers were noted for high standards
Acquaintances say their personalities, professional dealings were exemplary
"The brutal killing of a pair of mild-mannered Polk County farmers has stunned the local-food community, from fellow farmers to restaurant chefs to supporters of sustainable agriculture.
"Clearly, these folks are going to be missed in the sustainable-farming movement," said Stephen Perkins, owner of Cascade Baking Co. in Salem and a customer and friend of David Scott Jondle, 61, and Marilyn Ruth Jondle, 58.
Buying and consuming food grown and produced locally is the backbone of the "locavore" movement and central to the Abundant Life Farm, which the Jondles owned and operated...."
more at link
tlcya
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She would also have had to visit with her children (usually weekly), attend parenting classes, and submit to drug testing. There are frequent court hearings so that the judge can assess her improvement.
snipped from Msizzy's post #24
I am unsure how it works in Oregon but here in IL you can be charged fees for your court ordered drug testing and fees for your mandatory parenting and/or drug classes as well - if that is true in Oregon as well that could explain another need for money on the part of Cindy Lou
snipped from Msizzy's post #24
I am unsure how it works in Oregon but here in IL you can be charged fees for your court ordered drug testing and fees for your mandatory parenting and/or drug classes as well - if that is true in Oregon as well that could explain another need for money on the part of Cindy Lou
Excellent point. That is also true of Oregon. However, I commonly see those fees waived. Theoretically, parents can even be charged for the cost of foster care. Those fees are rarely collected, though.
IMO, Cindy wanted the money for something other than just rent. DHS provides housing funds for those attempting to reclaim their children. They can even qualify for bus passes, house keeping services, and child care vouchers. I realize this angers many people, especially those parents who are fighting tooth and nail to keep a roof over their heads and to parent with love and kindness. However, children are most often best served by staying in their families of origin and the money spent to reunify those families that can be "fixed" is money well spent--from both the societal view and the financial one, IMO.
I'll be very interested to see just what "fees" Cindy was pressing Andrew to help her with.
IMO, Cindy wanted the money for something other than just rent. DHS provides housing funds for those attempting to reclaim their children. They can even qualify for bus passes, house keeping services, and child care vouchers. I realize this angers many people, especially those parents who are fighting tooth and nail to keep a roof over their heads and to parent with love and kindness. However, children are most often best served by staying in their families of origin and the money spent to reunify those families that can be "fixed" is money well spent--from both the societal view and the financial one, IMO.
I'll be very interested to see just what "fees" Cindy was pressing Andrew to help her with.
Belinda
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You are right, this completely burns me up. So, in addition to free housing, free food, free transportation and free daycare, they get a free maid? I call BS. In other words, these people do not have to do a single solitary thing for themselves. All of this, so they can be coaxed into bothering to raise their own child. How is that beneficial to a child? There is support and there is ridiculous. This is completely ludicrous. Then, on top of it, they are keeping the child for the benefits and abuse it to death because they still don't want it.
Belinda--Without writing a treatise on child welfare, best practice shows that children are almost better served when staying in their family of origin. It is not acceptable to compare the specialized care available at really fine foster or adoptive homes with a client family's home life. The state requires that the family meet a minimum standard not the optimal standard.
Of course we on WS want the best for all kids but it's a very slippery slope when judges make decisions as to what is in the best interest of the child. Yes, a foster or adoptive family might have much more to offer a child--a nicer home, better clothes, higher standard of living. The wound of parental loss cannot be denied, however. Children will almost always prefer returning to family, no matter the circumstances.
As you can imagine, these mandates break a lot of hearts. That's why foster care is not for everyone.
The bus passes, rental assistance, child care vouchers, and yes, even housekeeping assistance are supposed to be a short term fix to more serious problems. If they work, and they do, society has saved a heck of a lot of money on child welfare. There is a current thrust to put even more funding up front into family supports to slow the flow of the hundreds of thousands of children into the system. As you can imagine child welfare is not only pro-active but also must be re-active. Just as a new system comes on board, a new societal problem will rear it's ugly head--like crack, meth, the economy--and CW will be forced to adjust to the new issues. The system will never be perfect as human beings refuse to "behave" themselves. In raising a child, there are a zillion things that can go horribly wrong and we all rely on CW to pick up the pieces.
I'm repeating back what I've been taught and what I know to be the law. Do I always agree with this? NO!! Our country has been down the path of "child saving", though, and we don't want to go down that path again. Check the global studies on this. That philosophy has been disastrous.
One only has to look to London during WWII. It was thought best to remove as many children as possible from the war torn city and to board them with families on bucolic and far safer farms in the countryside. Some families, however, refused to allow their children onto those buses and trains and instead kept their them in the city, only to trundle down to the shelters each night. The children were subjected to the almost constant bombing and sirens and the horrors that they viewed when they left the shelters. Guess which children had the better outcome?
That said, I'm still quite certain that Cindy was manipulating Drew into obtaining funds for some other purpose than to have her children returned. Call me jaded but I'm not buying it.
Of course we on WS want the best for all kids but it's a very slippery slope when judges make decisions as to what is in the best interest of the child. Yes, a foster or adoptive family might have much more to offer a child--a nicer home, better clothes, higher standard of living. The wound of parental loss cannot be denied, however. Children will almost always prefer returning to family, no matter the circumstances.
As you can imagine, these mandates break a lot of hearts. That's why foster care is not for everyone.
The bus passes, rental assistance, child care vouchers, and yes, even housekeeping assistance are supposed to be a short term fix to more serious problems. If they work, and they do, society has saved a heck of a lot of money on child welfare. There is a current thrust to put even more funding up front into family supports to slow the flow of the hundreds of thousands of children into the system. As you can imagine child welfare is not only pro-active but also must be re-active. Just as a new system comes on board, a new societal problem will rear it's ugly head--like crack, meth, the economy--and CW will be forced to adjust to the new issues. The system will never be perfect as human beings refuse to "behave" themselves. In raising a child, there are a zillion things that can go horribly wrong and we all rely on CW to pick up the pieces.
I'm repeating back what I've been taught and what I know to be the law. Do I always agree with this? NO!! Our country has been down the path of "child saving", though, and we don't want to go down that path again. Check the global studies on this. That philosophy has been disastrous.
One only has to look to London during WWII. It was thought best to remove as many children as possible from the war torn city and to board them with families on bucolic and far safer farms in the countryside. Some families, however, refused to allow their children onto those buses and trains and instead kept their them in the city, only to trundle down to the shelters each night. The children were subjected to the almost constant bombing and sirens and the horrors that they viewed when they left the shelters. Guess which children had the better outcome?
That said, I'm still quite certain that Cindy was manipulating Drew into obtaining funds for some other purpose than to have her children returned. Call me jaded but I'm not buying it.
Leomoon80
Well-Known Member
Wondering aloud, if I missed Andrew's date of birth on this thread?
If anyone knows it, please share.
If anyone knows it, please share.
Belinda
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Sent you a PM with the information.
I hope everyone realizes that the above post of mine is "the county line". It is the Best Practice therory as known to child welfare. It is not necessarily my opinion but the mandate which must be followed by all state child welfare agencies to continue receiving federal funds. We, as a society, are at the mercy of the "Best Practice du jour".
I have a feeling that when all the details come out about this case, we will learn that Cindy had quite a bit more in her parenting plan to complete before her children had a planned return. I don't think we have to worry about their return now, however.
I have a feeling that when all the details come out about this case, we will learn that Cindy had quite a bit more in her parenting plan to complete before her children had a planned return. I don't think we have to worry about their return now, however.
Did everyone read the article I posted upthread about the method the Jondles used to slaughter the chickens? As a vegetarian, I have to say that I was impressed with the compassion shown to the chickens. The impact on the humans every 10 days concerns me more than a little, though.
http://desperatelyseekingsalem.com/2009/09/11/chicken-run/
Chicken Run
"One of the Jondle boys sets up a kill rack, a device that allows the chickens to be placed headfirst in a funnel that stabilizes them and exposes their necks.
Then he slits those necks, cutting through the main arteries, and let’s the birds bleed out. The blood flows down an inclined tray into a bucket.
Jondle Son #2 sends the birds through a hot water (140 degree) bath, which loosens their feathers for the next stage, a whirl through an automated chicken plucking machine. If my grandmother were still around I’m sure she would have her heart set on one of these babies, which obviates a clearly onerous task. Jondle Son #2 cuts off the chicken’s remaining head and feet...."
more at link
I'm not certain which Jondle son is which, but Drew has certainly participated in the slaughter of animals (at least chickens) on a regular basis for many years now. Obviously millions of kids grow up on farms and respectfully take part in slaughter and don't go on to kill. Could Drew, though, have some sort of precipitating factor which caused him to take this to another level?
I've seen comments about odd behaviors, "shark" eyes, rocking. One commenter referred to possible Asperger's. I'm beginning to wonder if Drew might be on the autism spectrum. He was born in the Silicon Valley which has the highest amount of children born with that disability. His parents might have even chosen to launch their organic farm with him in mind as many parents of autistic children try out different diets. Many studies have shown that kids on the spectrum seem to be sensitive to additives and preservatives.
Being that these boys were home-schooled, could Drew's disability have gone undiagnosed. Could he have merely been viewed as a quirky kid, a bit "off"? The spectrum includes those with the mildest form of social awkwardness all the way to non-verbal autism. Many people with Asperger's are extremely bright and go on to become successful. I know a man who has Asperger's who is a pharmacist. Most people that I've known (not all) who have high functioning austism or Asperger's take some sort of meds for anxiety as they can so easily become over-stimulated. Many have other co-morbid diagnoses ie. bipolar, depression, ADHD, OCD, etc. Might Drew have needed such a medication?
I commonly don't speak of Asperger's and violence in the same breath. However, that's a little ridiculous for me. My 10 year old granddaughter has high functioning autism and has broken her mother's wrist and seriously injured teachers and other children. She attends a special school. She's never had a bit of remorse for her actions. My children on the spectrum have physically harmed me and others and had no remorse. It was as if I was merely a stumbling block in their way, to be moved, in whatever way possible.
I did some research this morning and found a couple of articles on recent cases for those who are interested. We often see crimes committed against parents when a child is experiencing a psychotic episode. Possibly, we need to broaden our knowledge a bit.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...rist_says_teen_was_anxious_on_day_of_killing/
http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2010/04/odgren_jury_sta_1.html
http://www.truecrimereport.com/2009/10/student_trevor_varinecz_shot_t.php
Notice how the words anxiety and stress come up frequently. These kids can explode when panicky or confused or cornered, regardless of their IQ or typical calm demeanor. I was also interested in the obsession with violence for Odgren. Our granddaughter often talks about violence and will act it out if she sees or hears about it.
It makes me wonder about how Drew processed the slaughtering of the chickens. JMO.
http://desperatelyseekingsalem.com/2009/09/11/chicken-run/
Chicken Run
"One of the Jondle boys sets up a kill rack, a device that allows the chickens to be placed headfirst in a funnel that stabilizes them and exposes their necks.
Then he slits those necks, cutting through the main arteries, and let’s the birds bleed out. The blood flows down an inclined tray into a bucket.
Jondle Son #2 sends the birds through a hot water (140 degree) bath, which loosens their feathers for the next stage, a whirl through an automated chicken plucking machine. If my grandmother were still around I’m sure she would have her heart set on one of these babies, which obviates a clearly onerous task. Jondle Son #2 cuts off the chicken’s remaining head and feet...."
more at link
I'm not certain which Jondle son is which, but Drew has certainly participated in the slaughter of animals (at least chickens) on a regular basis for many years now. Obviously millions of kids grow up on farms and respectfully take part in slaughter and don't go on to kill. Could Drew, though, have some sort of precipitating factor which caused him to take this to another level?
I've seen comments about odd behaviors, "shark" eyes, rocking. One commenter referred to possible Asperger's. I'm beginning to wonder if Drew might be on the autism spectrum. He was born in the Silicon Valley which has the highest amount of children born with that disability. His parents might have even chosen to launch their organic farm with him in mind as many parents of autistic children try out different diets. Many studies have shown that kids on the spectrum seem to be sensitive to additives and preservatives.
Being that these boys were home-schooled, could Drew's disability have gone undiagnosed. Could he have merely been viewed as a quirky kid, a bit "off"? The spectrum includes those with the mildest form of social awkwardness all the way to non-verbal autism. Many people with Asperger's are extremely bright and go on to become successful. I know a man who has Asperger's who is a pharmacist. Most people that I've known (not all) who have high functioning austism or Asperger's take some sort of meds for anxiety as they can so easily become over-stimulated. Many have other co-morbid diagnoses ie. bipolar, depression, ADHD, OCD, etc. Might Drew have needed such a medication?
I commonly don't speak of Asperger's and violence in the same breath. However, that's a little ridiculous for me. My 10 year old granddaughter has high functioning autism and has broken her mother's wrist and seriously injured teachers and other children. She attends a special school. She's never had a bit of remorse for her actions. My children on the spectrum have physically harmed me and others and had no remorse. It was as if I was merely a stumbling block in their way, to be moved, in whatever way possible.
I did some research this morning and found a couple of articles on recent cases for those who are interested. We often see crimes committed against parents when a child is experiencing a psychotic episode. Possibly, we need to broaden our knowledge a bit.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...rist_says_teen_was_anxious_on_day_of_killing/
http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2010/04/odgren_jury_sta_1.html
http://www.truecrimereport.com/2009/10/student_trevor_varinecz_shot_t.php
Notice how the words anxiety and stress come up frequently. These kids can explode when panicky or confused or cornered, regardless of their IQ or typical calm demeanor. I was also interested in the obsession with violence for Odgren. Our granddaughter often talks about violence and will act it out if she sees or hears about it.
It makes me wonder about how Drew processed the slaughtering of the chickens. JMO.
Belinda
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Egads, Missizzy! I didn't read the kill method on purpose. I am one of those people that can't even think about it or I can't eat it. And I really love chicken. My brother worked for a place like that for about 2 weeks. He quit. He just couldn't hack it. I'm just not cut out to be a vegetarian. Tofu makes me nauseous to even look at it.
I would wonder about the effect on the persons performing these methods, no matter how humane they are supposed to be. I know it took a terrible toll on my brother and he really never quite got over it. I'm not saying it turned his mind or anything, just always disturbed him terribly.
I would wonder about the effect on the persons performing these methods, no matter how humane they are supposed to be. I know it took a terrible toll on my brother and he really never quite got over it. I'm not saying it turned his mind or anything, just always disturbed him terribly.
Leomoon80
Well-Known Member
My husband told me a true story he heard on the radio years ago discussing vegetarianism, and human beings.
The person was asked, "Well, if someone was drowning, and so was a chicken (drowning) at the same time, WHICH one would YOU save?"
He took a moment, then answered, "It would depend on who the chicken was"
(true story)
The person was asked, "Well, if someone was drowning, and so was a chicken (drowning) at the same time, WHICH one would YOU save?"
He took a moment, then answered, "It would depend on who the chicken was"
(true story)
Leomoon80
Well-Known Member
Thank you for posting the obituary. I can't imagine what it must have been like for them to see the face of their son, lashing out at them in those few last minutes of their lives.
How utterly sad for the entire family.
He must be mentally off to have done this.
I'm wondering about the background, and whether his defense of his actions in wanting money from his parents that I read, they were not willing to give, had to do with a paycheck or some farm work he felt he had been "owed" by them?
Does anyone have background on this......as he did work for them.
I'm thinking he had no other viable work after the farm work.
Sounds like they were employing a "tough love" kind of mandate to bring him around/.
It backfired badly.
How utterly sad for the entire family.
He must be mentally off to have done this.
I'm wondering about the background, and whether his defense of his actions in wanting money from his parents that I read, they were not willing to give, had to do with a paycheck or some farm work he felt he had been "owed" by them?
Does anyone have background on this......as he did work for them.
I'm thinking he had no other viable work after the farm work.
Sounds like they were employing a "tough love" kind of mandate to bring him around/.
It backfired badly.
I have read two versions of how they met. I have not links, but can look for them. Version 1: They met at a big park in Salem. Can't remember the name. and Version 2: They met because her kids were or are living with a neighbor family to the Jondles.
Here is one of the versions, it is straight from the Jondle Homicide: Probable Cause Statement
"I later spoke with Cindy Beck and she confirmed that she conspired with Andrew Jondle to murder his parents, David and Marilyn Jondle. Ms Beck told me that they talked about the idea on 8-29-10 and 8-30-10. Ms Beck told me that she thought she was protecting her children from David and Marilyn Jondle. Ms Beck went on to tell me that she did not have any proof that the Jondle's (sic) were harming her children that were in a foster care at a nearby residence but that her daughter was nervous because Mr Jondle waved at her daughter while she was walking down the road. Ms Beck told me that she and Andrew came up with the plan to murder his parents and steal money from them to pay rent. Ms Beck said that they were also hoping that they would inherit the farm after the murder."
Access the statement via this article:
http://www.statesmanjournal.com/art...to-seek-death-penalty-in-Polk-County-slayings
"I later spoke with Cindy Beck and she confirmed that she conspired with Andrew Jondle to murder his parents, David and Marilyn Jondle. Ms Beck told me that they talked about the idea on 8-29-10 and 8-30-10. Ms Beck told me that she thought she was protecting her children from David and Marilyn Jondle. Ms Beck went on to tell me that she did not have any proof that the Jondle's (sic) were harming her children that were in a foster care at a nearby residence but that her daughter was nervous because Mr Jondle waved at her daughter while she was walking down the road. Ms Beck told me that she and Andrew came up with the plan to murder his parents and steal money from them to pay rent. Ms Beck said that they were also hoping that they would inherit the farm after the murder."
Access the statement via this article:
http://www.statesmanjournal.com/art...to-seek-death-penalty-in-Polk-County-slayings