OR OR - David Grubbs, 23, Ashland, 19 Nov 2011

[Missizzy]

Several family members have confirmed the marks on the trees, so that is certainly something to consider. I still wonder if this is a place where "mock" battles are fought. I've seen nor heard anything of the sort. That's usually over at Lithia Park.

Gooniequeen--We can post links to the FB or MS pages of anyone known to be involved in the crime but not to friends or family. I too, worry about the Satanic bent. Some of that is reasonably typical for the age but then again.....Anyone who knows me here on WS, knows that I always look at the dates of crimes. Nothing shows up, that I can find, concerning the date of David's death. IMO, this was a quick and brutal death--very different than other Satanic or ritualized occult related deaths which we have followed.

 

[Missizzy]

Another issue that's been bothering me is the specificity of the CL ad which I posted upthread. That's very atypical for 20 something guys here in Ashland. I can't quite put my finger on it but the two guys certainly gave a lot of info, including names, of those living in the home where the room was for rent. Most ads for a room include only a line or two.

 

[scaryworldwelivein]

after looking at the pictures of the trees from Gooniequeen, I think I may go back to my "AXE" theory. Could a sword have made those kind of marks? A machete could have though, right?
That Satanic thing is scary too!!!
Missizzy are you going to the high school to see what the policemen have to say on Tuesday?

 

[scaryworldwelivein]

missizzy - the ad also was posted for a roommate on November 05? Did David Grubbs just move in at 69 California Street?

 

[scaryworldwelivein]

my husband met someone in town who lives right behind where the murder happened, she said someone told her (not sure if she was referring to police) that the murder happened because David walked up on a drug deal. Doubt it was police as this is the first I have heard of it.

 

[Missizzy]

I have no idea when David moved into the house on California St. but it sounds like he was definitely established there when the ad ran a few weeks ago.

I can understand walking up on a drug deal. That's surely not unheard of in Ashland. I'm going to try to be realistic here. David was a grown man and I imagine that he would have just have moved on. If he walked the greenway often, it wouldn't be a big shock. Pot deals are as common as can be and remember that Jackson County has the largest proportion of MM card holders in the state. Yes, there is excess MM sold on the street. But would someone brutally murder someone because they saw pot being pot or sold? I seriously doubt it. Heroin is becoming more of a problem but still that seems farfetched to think that David walked into a deal and got attacked. Why not just step around and keep going? JMO

Nothing, other than a psychotic break or a thrill kill seems to fit, to my mind.

 

[Missizzy]

I've been wondering if David might have been carrying a bank bag from Shop 'n Kart. I doubt it but maybe it's possible. Could someone have observed him putting it in his backpack or pocket and followed him? Or might they have mistaken something for a bank bag? We've assumed that he was heading home but there is a bank not far from the murder and a number of others just past his home, in the downtown area. However, I have a hard time believing that many employees, especially those on foot, would be asked to drop off a deposit.

For full disclosure, I should mention that four of my special needs sons are what would be called "street people" in and around Ashland. They all have some level of mental health/cognitive challenges and simply cannot afford housing in Ashland. They illegally camp or couch surf. I've attempted to contact them since David's death but they don't have cell phones. They just show up at our Ashland home when they need help.

In defense of the APD, I have to keep in mind that they've ALWAYS been there for our unique family. They were the arresting officers of the young man who raped our eight youngest children. They know all our children well and keep an open line of communication with all my kids--which run a full gamut from professionals to aggressive panhandlers.

 

[scaryworldwelivein]

http://www.facebook.com/groups/162299983868802/

I found this on Facebook (hope this is ok to post). But could not find the private page with friends.

I wish they would catch this person. Last night we drove through town to see the Christmas lights and saw some guy with a green military type coat walking across the street from the college, swinging his arms and talking to himself! We kept driving, got gas and came back to see a policeman turning into the neighborhood behind where he was originally walking (they are definatley trying their best).
I was so excited to move here and walk all winter, as it was impossible in North Idaho with all the snow. Now, I will not walk alone. Even in the day!

 

[scaryworldwelivein]

and am getting fatter by the minute! Sorry, I don't mean to profile. We never know what something is like, until we walk in those shoes. I agree that the Ashland Police Department is awesome (my uncle is a retired police officer). I worked for years at Albertsons (in southern ca and north idaho) as a checker and bookkeeper. We sent the deposit out by armored in the early afternoon. Shop-n-Cart is a small company, they may do things differently, but if they are anything like Albertsons, they would deal with deposits during daytime hours, Monday thru Friday.
I agree with Missizzy about this being a thrill kill. Is anyone going to the meeting on Tuesday night in Ashland? I can't go and was hoping someone would fill us in.
The weird thing about all this, is that he was not robbed.

 

[Missizzy]

I realize that the news reports say that David wasn't robbed but how exactly can that be proven? Yes, this was quick but who's to say how much cash was in David's pocket or wallet? The bank bag idea was a long shot but could he have been taking co-workers' money for deposit? I don't think any banks are open that late on Saturday but maybe the night deposit? Try as I might, it just doesn't sound like a robbery, however.

The first FB page linked is interesting and is filled with Ashlanders. I have to say that I don't recognize many Ashlanders at the second FB link. Many members from out of the area.

I know that my grown kids are all very concerned about their little ones going back to school tomorrow. There's a huge amount of anxiety in town.

 

[gooniequeen]

Gooniequeen--We can post links to the FB or MS pages of anyone known to be involved in the crime but not to friends or family. I too, worry about the Satanic bent. Some of that is reasonably typical for the age but then again.....Anyone who knows me here on WS, knows that I always look at the dates of crimes. Nothing shows up, that I can find, concerning the date of David's death. IMO, this was a quick and brutal death--very different than other Satanic or ritualized occult related deaths which we have followed.

<modsnip>

Regarding dates - David's birthday was 11/23 (4 days after the attack) if that means anything.

Another interesting "date" - 11/19 is the date that Lincoln gave his Gettysburg address - and David was "famous for donning an Abraham Lincoln costume on Halloween. He reported to Shop'n Kart with a dyed beard and a stove-pipe hat."


http://smart-grid.tmcnet.com/news/2011/11/27/5955599.htm

 

[gooniequeen]

interesting thought....

seems that "sword play" may be common place in Ashland perhaps due to the Shakespeare Theater connection - or a culture of fantasy gamers. Is it possible this was a joke/game gone horribly wrong?

 

[gooniequeen]

David's Myspace page - not much there.

http://www.myspace.com/403032106/comments#!/403032106


However if you look under interests you'll notice a lot of fantasy/gamer related interests;

Ender's Game

Inheritance Saga - the most recent installment released on 11/8/11 in which the book opens with the Vardens' attack on Belatona. In the midst of the battle, Saphira is nearly killed by a Dauthdaert (death spear)

Dark Tower Saga
If you also go back and look at David's roommate's CL post for a roommate - notice his email handle - "hilegunslinger" this is a reference as well to the Dark Tower Saga.

http://medford.craigslist.org/roo/2687132902.html


I don't know much about the whole fantasy/gamer lifestyle - but leaning more and more twords gaming gone wrong - or unstable gamer having a psychotic break.

 

[gooniequeen]

Interesting detail - David's friends refer to him as "lengthman" or "length man".

Noun lengthsman (plural lengthsmen)

1. Someone who cares for a particular stretch of canal, railway, or road.

Perhaps this was a "gamer" tag or a character name?

The definition of it caught my eye since he was killed on a stretch of a path that ran along railroad tracks.

 

[scaryworldwelivein]

Really, really good points!!! If the game theory is what happened, someone will definatley come forward.

 

[InTheGarden]

I have just read up on postings and my apologies to anyone who has taken offense to my earlier comments. Some of the recent commentary here is truly scary and this has now moved over to the surreal.

Sincerely hope they find the person(s) responsible quickly and the community can get back to some normalcy. Please be safe and look out for each other.

All things considered, retirement in Iowa is looking real good right now.

 

[Snoopster]

I have just read up on postings and my apologies to anyone who has taken offense to my earlier comments. Some of the recent commentary here is truly scary and this has now moved over to the surreal.

Sincerely hope they find the person(s) responsible quickly and the community can get back to some normalcy. Please be safe and look out for each other.

All things considered, retirement in Iowa is looking real good right now.

And I'm sorry if I came across a bit harsh, IntheGarden. I have no doubt that you meant well. Afterall, that is why you are here and crime against innocent people troubles you. Please take care and accept my apologies if I came across as too sensitive.

P.S. -- Stay warm in Iowa! I have a theory that there is generally lower crime in the non-urban areas in the north, as it's simply too cold in the winter to go out and cause trouble! )

 

[ObscureClaire]

The news here (in Ashland) is that police found a helmet and a skateboard in the murder area. This leads a person to think, if the helmet and skateboard belong to the murderer, that the murderer is young. If anybody here has done much sleuthing, you will figure out that David had several friends and coworkers who are skateboarders. In addition, David and friends were into some Dungeons and Dragons like games. I found a curious set of posts on Facebook that belongs to one of David's coworkers. I have removed the names of the people posting because I still don't totally buy the helmet and skateboard thing - it seems that if somebody was to murder somebody else on a bike trail, they would not need to remove their helmet, and might even prefer to keep it on - and a skateboard would make the getaway much quicker - but it is interesting that these posts that happened two days before the murder mention a headless horseman and finding and following somebody out in the middle of nowhere. <modsnip>

 

[gooniequeen]

Claire - it's all so surreal. I am significantly freaked out.

What do you know about Lithia by Night? Live Action Role Playing? Seems as if it use to take place on Saturday nights (11/19 being a Saturday night) and was organized out of SOU? Can't find anything recent - does it still take place?

I called by BFF in Ashland last night and said "hey, is it common place for people in ashland to walk around with swords and $4!t??" and her reply was......"well......it happens"

I did see some of David's friend's were skaters....doesn't sway me either way - however if a board and helmet were found...that would be quite helpful for LE.

Are you planning to attend the meeting tomorrow night? Would love some local feedback on the outcome.

 

[ObscureClaire]

I don't know about these Saturday night things. One person posted about the homeless dinners that occurred in Lithia Park years ago. It is true, they were very medieval and a sword would not be out of character for these events, but I haven't heard about these homeless dinners happening there for years. The new information about the helmet and skateboard being found near the scene just broke a couple of hours ago - so should be in print tomorrow. At first, I thought it might be kind of a bait and switch type of thing, but, I am beginning to think the gaming angle might be right. Do you remember the Dungeons & Dragons murder that happened years ago? [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons_controversies"]Dungeons & Dragons controversies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

I am thinking about going to the meeting tomorrow night - not committed though. It will be interesting, but I don't think I will learn anything new.