GUILTY PA - Holly Grim, 41, Wescosville, 22 Nov 2013 #1 *Arrest*

[Treelights]

All I recollect:

Neighbour saw back door open an inch. It wasn't normally used.

Coffee cup was 'overturned' on table - no mention of it being on floor or smashed.

Coffee table was shifted from its normal position

Glasses Holly always wore were on the floor.

Her keys and cigarettes were left behind

Holly's mom said Holly would always sit at the table having a coffee and cigarette before work.

Holly was heard exchanging words with someone by her home that morning.

I can't remember if her wallet was missing now. Anyone?

You mentioned this is what you recollect, but has it been shown in MSM about Holly exchanging words with someone by her home that morning, or is this considered a rumor?
IMOO.

 

[Elainera]

I think she came home after the bus stop!
Perp was in the house when she entered.
there was a struggle
He incapacitated her hears moms car drive up and took off with Holly out the back door
Still dark!

Good thinking about the use of the back door because the perp heard or saw the mother coming up to the house. That's quite possible.

 

[Trackergd]

There is nothing on MSM about the woman misssing from Robesonia, Berks County. I am local and there has been absolutely nothing in print or on TV. Weather here is miserable right now with ice predicted this afternoon and we've had the TV on all day for local weather. The whole situation seems strange with no information on who saw her last, if she left on foot, where she was headed, if she had a medical condition... and many more unanswered questions!

I have had a request for assistance from an individual in the Berks County case. I am spread too thin as it is including work and taking FEMA classes online. I said I would help train a search team if they can get one organized. Seems LE is not cooperating at all in that case. Not sure if it is local or PSP. After what I have seen with the Holly case, I would doubt PSP is being uncooperative if they have jurisdiction.

LE gets a lot of missing person reports on a weekly basis. I gather it taxes their resources/manpower. If there is no physical evidence a crime has occurred, it is all to easy to classify it as a walk/run away.

I have not yet confirmed that the Berks case is an actual case.

 

[zwiebel]

Thanks for that Trackergd. It's very concerning not to be able to get official confirmation anywhere.

 

[zwiebel]

You mentioned this is what you recollect, but has it been shown in MSM about Holly exchanging words with someone by her home that morning, or is this considered a rumor?
IMOO.

I wondered that as I wrote it, but didn't check back through the articles. Sorry.

I will do it, but probably best to regard it as rumor at the moment.

 

[zwiebel]

Was it dark at 6.30am in PA then? Or just sort of dim?

 

[shimz]

Was it dark at 6.30am in PA then? Or just sort of dim?

From sunrise/sunset calendar for Wescosville:

11/22/13
Twilight: 6:27
Sunrise: 6:56

 

[zwiebel]

And it seems like people there are pretty early risers. So some light, people about, houses close together.

This really was audacious. Or desperate. Someone who wanted to get Holly out of the way right then because...??

 

[Eileen730]

And it seems like people there are pretty early risers. So some light, people about, houses close together.

This really was audacious. Or desperate. Someone who wanted to get Holly out of the way right then because...??

Because just maybe she told someone to get out of her life. It didn't go over well.

 

[Saphyrrra]

I have had a request for assistance from an individual in the Berks County case. I am spread too thin as it is including work and taking FEMA classes online. I said I would help train a search team if they can get one organized. Seems LE is not cooperating at all in that case. Not sure if it is local or PSP. After what I have seen with the Holly case, I would doubt PSP is being uncooperative if they have jurisdiction.

LE gets a lot of missing person reports on a weekly basis. I gather it taxes their resources/manpower. If there is no physical evidence a crime has occurred, it is all to easy to classify it as a walk/run away.

I have not yet confirmed that the Berks case is an actual case.

Working on confirmation..I'll msg you if need be!

 

[TravelingBug]

Just jumping in quick----was the coffee cup on the coffee table? Or had it spilled in kitchen, on counter top and / or floor? Was milk or creamer on counter? Spoon in sink? Coffee maker still on? How full was the pot? And was her lunch made for work? I think this can give us clues on where Holly was at in her daily routine.

OK--back to reading!!!

I have to admit you posting coffee related questions made me giggle

I'm honestly a little surprised we've still really heard so little about her disappearance. And next to nothing since it first broke.

 

[Eileen730]

You mentioned this is what you recollect, but has it been shown in MSM about Holly exchanging words with someone by her home that morning, or is this considered a rumor?
IMOO.

IMO this is probably considered rumor but as I see it its probably TRUE
I think she was in a conflict with this person and this person is someone very close to her!

All MVOO

 

[Elainera]

You mentioned this is what you recollect, but has it been shown in MSM about Holly exchanging words with someone by her home that morning, or is this considered a rumor?
IMOO.

Yes considered a rumor. It was mentioned in the fb group but never tied to a specific person. At least not publicly. Maybe that person reported it to LE and was told not to repeat it publicly.

What trackergd said, that LE had good reason not to bring in additional search teams might be connected to it. LE certainly knows more than we do.

It was also mentioned on fb that LE has told the voluntary search groups NOT to search certain areas in case LE themselves want to search them again at a later point in time.

I find these two pieces of information intriguing and have been pondering over them - what could be the reasons that LE saw no need for additional search teams? And why were specific areas singled out to keep clear from?

They must have a pretty good idea what happened that morning.

ETA: mods, please delete if this was not allowed to be mentioned here.

 

[Trackergd]

Yes considered a rumor. It was mentioned in the fb group but never tied to a specific person. At least not publicly. Maybe that person reported it to LE and was told not to repeat it publicly.

What trackergd said, that LE had good reason not to bring in additional search teams might be connected to it. LE certainly knows more than we do.

It was also mentioned on fb that LE has told the voluntary search groups NOT to search certain areas in case LE themselves want to search them again at a later point in time.

I find these two pieces of information intriguing and have been pondering over them - what could be the reasons that LE saw no need for additional search teams? And why were specific areas singled out to keep clear from?

They must have a pretty good idea what happened that morning.

ETA: mods, please delete if this was not allowed to be mentioned here.

RBBM

The areas were searched by LE resources and have already been searched by the search team. When I discussed these areas with PSP, we agreed that the areas have been extensively searched by two different groups and there is little chance anything was missed. We agreed that should PSP wish to recheck an area, it probably would be better if the area was left in it's current condition, and that the team should continue searching areas that have not been previously checked and where there is less hunting, hiking and jogging activity. Putting your resourced where they are going to produce the biggest bang as it were.

 

[Trackergd]

Yes considered a rumor. It was mentioned in the fb group but never tied to a specific person. At least not publicly. Maybe that person reported it to LE and was told not to repeat it publicly.

What trackergd said, that LE had good reason not to bring in additional search teams might be connected to it. LE certainly knows more than we do.

It was also mentioned on fb that LE has told the voluntary search groups NOT to search certain areas in case LE themselves want to search them again at a later point in time.

I find these two pieces of information intriguing and have been pondering over them - what could be the reasons that LE saw no need for additional search teams? And why were specific areas singled out to keep clear from?

They must have a pretty good idea what happened that morning.

ETA: mods, please delete if this was not allowed to be mentioned here.

RBBM

I have cautioned the team against naming their POI's by name on any of the FB pages. Until one or more individuals are publicly named by PSP, it would be inadvisable to name names. And it could possibly impede the investigation. The names have been forwarded to PSP and the PI on the case.

 

[FigTree]

And it seems like people there are pretty early risers. So some light, people about, houses close together.

This really was audacious. Or desperate. Someone who wanted to get Holly out of the way right then because...??

They had their own schedule to keep? Cant be seen as being late or missing for a time at around the time Holly disappeared...

 

[zwiebel]

So that time the abductor had to keep to could be as early as 7am, considering Holly may have vanished at any point after 6.34am? That would explain LE keeping searches to the immediate area, knowing her abductor didn't have time to take her far.

I'd like to know if Holly usually took her cigarettes with her to her son's bus stop. Or if those cigarettes and the coffee cup were from before she left the house? Many people need that first coffee before they leave the house.

 

[hot cawfeee]

Morning guys-----fast couple of questions----what about Holly's shoes???? Any missing?? Maybe she wore slippers inside and took off her shoes when she was indoors?

 

[Trackergd]

Morning guys-----fast couple of questions----what about Holly's shoes???? Any missing?? Maybe she wore slippers inside and took off her shoes when she was indoors?

While I did not try to "pry" too much when talking to the PSP, I did not get the feeling that there was anything missing from the discussion.

I do the same thing. Remove shoes and wear socks or slippers inside. Keeps the carpets cleaner much longer and cuts down on the high traffic wear. LOL

 

[Treelights]

RBBM

I have cautioned the team against naming their POI's by name on any of the FB pages. Until one or more individuals are publicly named by PSP, it would be inadvisable to name names. And it could possibly impede the investigation. The names have been forwarded to PSP and the PI on the case.

Interesting that you mentioned that the names of (possible) POI's have been forwarded to the PSP and the PI on the case.
Then people have already thought about a person(s) who could be a person(s) of interest, meaning there is much more to the story than what is known in the media. People have background info that could support who or why they took Holly perhaps, but the general public is not in the know, not privy to these details as like you mention, it could possibly impede the investigation.
Very interesting indeed.
IMOO.