PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #15

[J. J. in Phila]

Numerous people noticed that RFG had a change in his demeanor. This is the time line on it.

I have heard that some people noticed it as much as a fortnight earlier, but I have no documentation of it.

March 8, 2005 RFG was being interviewed by then CDT political reporter Mike Joseph (The Thin Man), about the upcoming election for DA. Gricar indicated that he was supporting Michael T. Madeira (MTM), a Republican, who was elected in the fall. Joseph asked about JKA, who had just filed petitions to be on the ballot for the Democratic nomination.

Joseph wrote: "I was surprised that the question seemed to stun Gricar, or at least to leave him at a loss. He had been so fluid with his answers about the spring primary. But when asked to look beyond that, he stumbled in getting his toughts into words and never really came up with a coherent answer. The difference was remarkable."

March 9, 2005 RFG was at a meeting with then President Judge Charles Brown and then Criminal Court Administrator Carolyn Spotts. They were attempting to schedule a murder trial. Spotts said, "It just seemed that Ray wasn't with it. He was just looking around, which kind of shocked me because this was a death-penalty case."

Brown ask about an October scheduling. Spotts said, "Ray just turned and looked at the bookcases. "He didn't even look at the judge when he said it. He just said, 'I won't be here,' "

[October 9 was RFG's birthday and he usually took a vacation to New England around that time.]

c. March 28. PEF noted that RFG was napping more. After several weeks, she suggested that he see a doctor.

c. March 11, 2005 JKA describes RFGH as being "distraught," starting at this point.

March 14, 2005 People at the Prison Board meeting describe RG as mumbling answers and staring out the window.

March 16, 2005 DZ calls JKA to ask if she has seen RFG. She tells DZ (upon request) that RFG was "distraught" over the last week. DZ says, "...everyone is telling me the same thing."

 

[J. J. in Phila]

c. 2003 : County issues RFG the laptop.

January 2004: RFG announces he will not be running for reelection in 2005. Indicates that he will not be seeking another office nor joining a law firm.

Later in 2004: RFG gets erasure hardware. Also talks to a defense attorney about how to erase data. May also have asked coworkers.

c. Christmas 2004: RFG gets home desktop computer.

March or April 2005: RFG does computer searches on the desktop for "water damage to a notebook computer,""how to fry a hard drive" and similar searches.

4/15 and/or 4/16/05: At least one witness sees RFG in the Mini, "fiddling" with a laptop.

Sunday, 4/17/05: Police go to the house to get desktop. PEF asks them if they want the laptop as well. She goes to retrieve it, finds that the case is there, but is empty. Everything else is there, i.e. power cord.

April 18-22: Police check the office for the laptop. It is publicly revealed to be missing on 4/21 or 4/22.

7/30/05: Fishermen find laptop on the north side of the bridge in Lewisburg. Serial numbers match county records for the one RFG issued. Hard drive is missing.

8/05: Media reports of hard drive found. Hard drive does not match the one for the computer.

9/05: Hard drive discovered in river bed by a woman skipping stones with child. It is the type that fits the laptop, but has no separate recorded serial number.

(Site photos, taken 7/30/09, are here: https://picasaweb.google.com/LookingforRay )

10/05: LE reveals discovery of drive, sent it to the FBI.

12/05: LE announces FBI cannot recover data.

10-11/06: Possibly as part of the PSP-CSI review of the case, RFG's home computer "hard drive" searches discovered. Not publicly release.

07/1-7/4/08 "Dueling press conferences." McKnight/Buhner vs. MTM/Pa District Attorney Association. MTM takes Buehner suggestion and send hard drive to Kroll.

10/08 MTM reports that Kroll cannot recover the data. Also reveals that RFG had purchased erasure software and had asked others how to get rid of the data on the laptop.

4/15/09 LE announces that RFG had done the searches on his home desktop.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I really wish I could shed more light on the defense attorney that RFG talked to regarding getting rid of the data, than I am doing right now.

 

[Sutton]

I really wish I could shed more light on the defense attorney that RFG talked to regarding getting rid of the data, than I am doing right now.

So do we. Do you mean you wish you could tell us more about what Ray wanted to erase? Or more about the specific methods that could be used to erase data? Or more about the defense attorney himself?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

So do we. Do you mean you wish you could tell us more about what Ray wanted to erase? Or more about the specific methods that could be used to erase data? Or more about the defense attorney himself?

I wish I could tell you the name of the defense attorney, which would shed a little more light on what happened. I cannot post it directly.

I don't know what RFG wanted to erase. It could have been just private information. It could have personnel evaluations or notes on a case. It could have something embarrassing. As they say in Latin actus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea (The act does not make [a person] guilty unless the mind should be guilty.)

As to the method, Weaver suggested that RFG erased the drive first, using the cleaning software. That may be nothing more than speculation, but it is logical. Obviously, RFG wanted something on that drive to never see the light of day.

 

[Sutton]

I wish I could tell you the name of the defense attorney, which would shed a little more light on what happened. I cannot post it directly...

Snipped. Too bad you don't have the luxury of doing so.

I am going to look through the Public Defenders for Centre County.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Snipped. Too bad you don't have the luxury of doing so.

I am going to look through the Public Defenders for Centre County.

I feel quite certain that a review of the list would not be an exercise in luxuriance.

 

[Fluffy Puppy]

So the defense attorney's name must have something to do with light, although I do not understand how that would give us a more information - but I guess that is sort of the point. Maybe if I knew the name, I would understand.

In any case, JJ, thanks for keeping up the posting on this thread - I am always happy to see it pop back up.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

So the defense attorney's name must have something to do with light, although I do not understand how that would give us a more information - but I guess that is sort of the point. Maybe if I knew the name, I would understand.

In any case, JJ, thanks for keeping up the posting on this thread - I am always happy to see it pop back up.

You might want to look at Post #26, which I didn't write. You may find a look at public defenders enlightening. It might be well to remember my noted fondness for Latin. :thinking:

I would add that there has been a reasonably good amount of previously undisclosed information posted in the past posts on this thread.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The attorney that represented the plaintiffs in a suit against Father Luddy, sent information to the DA's Offices in Cambria, Blair, and Centre Counties in 2002 regard priest pedophiles. He did receive a response from any of them.

http://www.pennlive.com/news/2016/03/altoona_diocese_catholic_tulow.html#lf_comment=473835150

I am posting this for several reasons.

1. Several former DA's/ADA's in Cambria County were aware of the allegations and chose not to prosecute. The public response will be interesting, as several are now judges. The Tribune-Democrat called on one to either explain his actions or resign.

2. It does show, to some extent, show how these cases were handled by various offices in the area.

3. It does mention JKA.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

JJ - thanks for all the work on the timelines! I haven't been able to follow this thread for some time.....I wasn't aware that RG displayed such unusual/distracted behavior prior to his disappearance. Am totally fascinated by this case.

Thanks also for keeping this thread active.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ - thanks for all the work on the timelines! I haven't been able to follow this thread for some time.....I wasn't aware that RG displayed such unusual/distracted behavior prior to his disappearance. Am totally fascinated by this case.

Thanks also for keeping this thread active.

Yes, it was noted by a number of people. I have also heard that RFG was trying to move through a lot of cases, and assigning them to staffers.

You are welcome. I wish I had a solution.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Since the possibility RFG jumping, falling, being push, or his body being dumped in the Susquehanna River is discussed, I am including this article on the frequency of bodies being recovered: http://www.pennlive.com/news/2016/03/2_bodies_pulled_from_susquehan.html#incart_2box

 

[asp17061]

i'm still putting together the timeline. I found this in a reddit thread from today. https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=z1-Y1Cl-r7tU.k4NsMdaUsp9o&hl=en_US

 

[J. J. in Phila]

i'm still putting together the timeline. I found this in a reddit thread from today. https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=z1-Y1Cl-r7tU.k4NsMdaUsp9o&hl=en_US

I am not sure that it was a sports bar in Wilkes Barre. One of the witnesses was there with his family.

I would add that the BPD said that they had ruled the sighting out.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Mel Wiley was the police chief of Hinckley Township, Ohio. Hinkley is in a different county from Cleveland, and while RFG was there, Wiley was with the Medina County Sheriff's Office, and ran their identification division. It is doubtful that the two ever met or worked together.

In 1982, Wiley became the police chief and around 7/28/85, he vanished without a trace. Police investigating determined that he simply was dissatisfied with his life and left. The story briefly received national attention and included a story in Time. There is at least one thread on him here.

Here is the timeline:

July, 1979 RFG moves to Centre County, then wife Barbara gets a position at PSU.

December, 1980 RFG begins working at the Centre County District Attorney's Office (becomes a member of the PA Bar in mid 1981, maintains Ohio Bar membership.)

May, 1985 RFG wins the Republican nomination for DA. (Elected over Amos Goodall in November, sworn in in January, 1986.)

7/30/85 Wiley's car found near Lake Erie. In mid August, police determine he left voluntarily. News stories appear in mid August.

4/28/88 JKA starts working at the DA's Office.

May, 1991 SPS starts working at the DA's Office. Laid off (budgetary) in October 1992, returns in early 1993.

4/15/05 RFG disappears.

September, October, 2006 J. J. in Phila asked about people in responsible positions who voluntarily leave. He cites two, Wiley and Jay Carsey, a college president who left voluntarily in 1982, and subject of the 1989 book, Exit the Rainmaker.

July 2007 JKA notes, in her "Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury," that she thought she heard people in the office referencing Mel Wiley.

1/9/08 CDT reporter asks SPS if RFG ever was interested Wiley; he says yes, but not recently.

Note that neither JKA nor SPS were in the office while the Wiley disappearance was in the news. It is definite that RFG talked about after May 1991, and probably after March 1993.

Wiley had absolutely no ties to Centre County.

In other words, RFG had an interest in the Wiley disappearance well after it was in the news. While Carsey was better known, the subject of a best selling book, RFG was interested in Wiley.

 

[MamaJoJo]

The key difference, I'm supposing, between Wiley and Gricar, though, is that "police investigating (Wiley's disappearance) determined that he simply was dissatisfied with his life and left." No such determination has been made with regard to Gricar.

Was there proof in Wiley's case? How did LE come to the determination that Wiley just up and left? I wonder if he ever surfaced somewhere but his case sunk into obscurity so the media didn't give two cents?

Thanks for all of the detailed, compiled information, J.J.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The key difference, I'm supposing, between Wiley and Gricar, though, is that "police investigating (Wiley's disappearance) determined that he simply was dissatisfied with his life and left." No such determination has been made with regard to Gricar.

Was there proof in Wiley's case? How did LE come to the determination that Wiley just up and left? I wonder if he ever surfaced somewhere but his case sunk into obscurity so the media didn't give two cents?

Thanks for all of the detailed, compiled information, J.J.

There was enough evidence that LE reached that conclusion. You can go to this thread and go through it: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...7-Hinckley-Township-28-July-1985-Police-Chief

It still gets anniversary stories in local Ohio papers.

 

[MamaJoJo]

There are so many angles in which to look at the available information that it makes my head spin. So what does this Wiley angle mean? Anything? Did Gricar identify with Wiley in some way? Does it lend more credibility to Gricar upping and leaving on his own?

ullhair: :scared:

 

[J. J. in Phila]

There are so many angles in which to look at the available information that it makes my head spin. So what does this Wiley angle mean? Anything? Did Gricar identify with Wiley in some way? Does it lend more credibility to Gricar upping and leaving on his own?

ullhair: :scared:

It could demonstrate that RFG had an interest in people that left voluntarily. That would lead to a slightly greater likelihood of RFG leaving voluntarily. It could be a coincidence as well.

There are other "coincidences" as well.