PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #7

[nanwv]

Thanks JJ! I was hopefully optimistic it was not going to be any way near the Athletic Dept.

 

[Dogface]

I am new to the RG thread, and had only briefly reviewed it before...but what are the theories on WHY he wouldn't have gone after Sandusky when he had the chance in 1998? Was it simply that he didn't have enough evidence?

I am trying to come up with reasons he would feel the need to destroy his work hard drive and disappear, or why someone else would want that...and I keep going back to perhaps someone thought he was going to blow the whistle on things and someone felt threatened...but if that was the case, I think he would have had the incriminating files in more than one place, not to mention the attacker wouldn't have any way of knowing if there were additional copies, and RG wouldn't have performed searches on how to destroy a hard drive, so what would be on there he would want to destroy??? I hate to think of over the top theories but could he have not prosecuted Sandusky because of a risk of exposing himself for being involved in it? Its not unusual for abusers/molesters to work in rings together...what better duo than a guy who runs a charitable football camp for troubled youths and the local DA? Once again, I hate to even think like that, but, after seeing the amount of men involved in this story who didn't go to police, it really makes you wonder...

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Thanks JJ! I was hopefully optimistic it was not going to be any way near the Athletic Dept.

No, completely separate divisions.

I should point out two things.

1. In 1998 RFG and BG were divorced and RFG was remarried.

2. If RFG had some conflict of interest involving a case, he could ask the AG's office to take it.

The second is how the AG's Office is handling this case. Madeira, the former DA, stated he had a conflict of interest and turned the case over to the AG's Office.

Madeira has never stated what that conflict is, and has declined to tell the press.

 

[cj327]

I think he tossed the laptop/hard-drive for two reasons:

1) to bolster the suicide theory (e.g., work drove him crazy, etc) so that he could be declared legally dead, no one would keep hunting for him alive, and his daughter could get her inheritance or whatever.

2) to send a message to someone (if there was anyone to convince) that he destroyed any evidence that might have been incriminating, so that whoever that was would lose interest in him and like LE would stop looking for him.

That's the best I can come up with...

I do think murder is possible, but it just doesn't seem likely with his advanced decision not to seek re-election and the comment about not being there in April for some trial. Perhaps he planned an escape and didn't exit soon enough? I'm still betting on him leaving on his own, though.

This is thought-provoking. For days I have been thinking that these events and bits of information would fit into a logical pattern to explain what happened. However, it is definitely possible that someone had a plan (RG, or RG plus one or more people) and that things did not go 100% as planned.

What keeps sticking in my mind is: RG did not keep it a secret that he was trying to destroy his laptop hard drive (thanks to J J for info), mentioning it to other people and buying software to erase it. But then it was thrown in the river either (1) as a sloppy or hurried way to erase it, or (2) just for good measure, after RG already erased it using another method. I like the second one better.. I just think it is too much of a stretch to think that someone else independently decided to put it in the river, after he had been doing his homework on how to erase the drive.

Another thing I was wondering is his mental state in the weeks and months before he disappeared. I read in one article that he had seemed tired or possibly stressed from work prior to the disappearance. That could mean a lot of things of course, but it could also mean that his exit was not on his original or preferred timeline, if he felt pushed to hurry a walkaway. But then again if he was hanging around in a bar smoking a few days later, maybe he wasn't in that big a hurry..

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I am new to the RG thread, and had only briefly reviewed it before...but what are the theories on WHY he wouldn't have gone after Sandusky when he had the chance in 1998? Was it simply that he didn't have enough evidence?

Considering he admitted to what he was ultimately charged with, and they actually had more evidence, a second victim, I''d say no.

I am trying to come up with reasons he would feel the need to destroy his work hard drive and disappear, or why someone else would want that..

It wasn't his work hard drive; it was his laptop, that was rarely used. He had a home and an office computer.

I hate to think of over the top theories but could he have not prosecuted Sandusky because of a risk of exposing himself for being involved in it? Its not unusual for abusers/molesters to work in rings together...what better duo than a guy who runs a charitable football camp for troubled youths and the local DA? Once again, I hate to even think like that, but, after seeing the amount of men involved in this story who didn't go to police, it really makes you wonder...

We don't know what was on that computer, obviously.

It had previously been used in lieu of the home computer; a regular home computer was purchased around Christmas 2004. It could innocuous things on it, like credit card numbers. RFG had started asking about how to get rid of the data on it in early 2004.

I don't really like where my mind is wondering.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

What keeps sticking in my mind is: RG did not keep it a secret that he was trying to destroy his laptop hard drive (thanks to J J for info), mentioning it to other people and buying software to erase it. But then it was thrown in the river either (1) as a sloppy or hurried way to erase it, or (2) just for good measure, after RG already erased it using another method. I like the second one better.. I just think it is too much of a stretch to think that someone else independently decided to put it in the river, after he had been doing his homework on how to erase the drive.

He did searches for the second option on his home computer, so #2 is more likely. They were done after 3/15/05, according to LE.

Another thing I was wondering is his mental state in the weeks and months before he disappeared. I read in one article that he had seemed tired or possibly stressed from work prior to the disappearance. That could mean a lot of things of course, but it could also mean that his exit was not on his original or preferred timeline, if he felt pushed to hurry a walkaway. But then again if he was hanging around in a bar smoking a few days later, maybe he wasn't in that big a hurry..

One person called him "distraught" in the week before he disappeared. There were other reports about him not being focused. PEF said he napping more.

 

[twinkiesmom]

That is my laptop "problem." One possibility, however, is that RFG would realize everyone would be looking for drive if the found the laptop minus drive. If the drive was in the water for 1-2 weeks, it would be almost impossible to recover the data.



MTM is not talking.

If it was he knew Sandusky or one of the victims, he could have just said that; a lot of people knew him.

But if he wanted to conceal the fact that he believed there to be a connection between Sandusky (or any other investigation he was connected to and Ray's disappearance, he would just state there was a conflict of interest and not give a reason.

 

[justathought]

I think enterprising reporters out there should probe the reason. In this neck of the woods conflicts are common because everyone knows everyone, other cases, etc. Not giving a reason isn't. Don't know about Pennslyvania.
So, if the laptop/hard drive was tossed by Ray.....lends to walk away, methinks.
Thoughts on the "personal" laptop.
--I keep stuff related to work on my home computer that is of a confidential nature..small office, shared computer drives...budget and salary stuff. blessed by my employer. Ray could have kept "files" on cases that he wasn't sharing info about, such as this one.
--J.J., if you and I are having the same "awful" thoughts about what we feel may have been on it. There have been dozens of cases here recently regarding that scenario ...so many, beyond my comprehension and folks who seemed to be upstanding citzenry if you will. I just don't get it.
--If it was credit card stuff, etc. There are places that erase that stuff for you...I've used them when donating old office computers...frequently its the donator place...or why not take out the hard drive, donate the computer. You can stand there and watch them erase it.
---Again, to my mind there's no way he didn't know that the Sandusky saga was ongoing...maybe not verified but at least the rumors. I think someone came to him...i.e. his "sleeping" and other observable mental traits in the last days.
---What did the people at Second Mile know and what did they do about it? (apparently nothing.)

One thought I've had is maybe he went to Lewisburg to meet with someone to offer them the opportunity to come forward before he blew the whistle. Then maybe things just got out of hand.

If he was murdered, I think he was coerced out of the parking lot.

 

[SuziQ]

So why didn't RG prosecute when he had a confession from Sandusky? Was RG another person in the Penn State saga to drop the ball? I think the current DA needs to answer that question. The victims and the public deserve that much.

 

[eriklatranyi]

As an outsider, looking-in, it appears RFG was very meticulous about many things. Therefore, erasing the hard drive and then throwing it in the river gave him that "insurance" that the data could not be recovered.

If RFG walked-away, his personal laptop may have been used to arrange everything, from the bank accounts holding the PSU bribe money to hotel reservations, bus schedules, research on places to go, etc.

I don't know if RFG was known for diversionary tactics as a prosecutor, but if you want to confuse everyone over your disappearance, he did a good job of setting it up that way!

Also, why just throw the laptop in the river and not his mobile phone?

 

[minazoe]

my feeling is that Ray was forced into the trunk of another car or the back of a van.

I think his keys were retrieved later and someone went back to the car and destroyed his laptop, I think that's when the smoking occurred.


My guess is someone was hired to do this, He was probably being threatened and followed and knew for awhile that someone was on him.

Maybe another child came forward...at any rate I hope they can account for all the kids at that center.

side note...I don't think a hit person is going to review the contents of a laptop. they will destroy it and go collect their money.

 

[believe09]

I havent looked at this disappearance in a while, so I skimmed the threads. Ray seemed to have no hesitation with prosecuting Penn Staters for sex crimes-didnt he take the case against a former wrester all of the way because he wanted more jail time for the guy? The sentence was overturned because the court agreed with him...for example.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

But if he wanted to conceal the fact that he believed there to be a connection between Sandusky (or any other investigation he was connected to and Ray's disappearance, he would just state there was a conflict of interest and not give a reason.

It is a possibility, but a possibility is not proof.

 

[RubyRed]

I am new to the RG thread, and had only briefly reviewed it before...but what are the theories on WHY he wouldn't have gone after Sandusky when he had the chance in 1998? Was it simply that he didn't have enough evidence?

I am trying to come up with reasons he would feel the need to destroy his work hard drive and disappear, or why someone else would want that...and I keep going back to perhaps someone thought he was going to blow the whistle on things and someone felt threatened...but if that was the case, I think he would have had the incriminating files in more than one place, not to mention the attacker wouldn't have any way of knowing if there were additional copies, and RG wouldn't have performed searches on how to destroy a hard drive, so what would be on there he would want to destroy??? I hate to think of over the top theories but could he have not prosecuted Sandusky because of a risk of exposing himself for being involved in it? Its not unusual for abusers/molesters to work in rings together...what better duo than a guy who runs a charitable football camp for troubled youths and the local DA? Once again, I hate to even think like that, but, after seeing the amount of men involved in this story who didn't go to police, it really makes you wonder...

bbm
Thanks for sharing that. My mind was going in that dark direction last night also.

 

[minazoe]

bbm
Thanks for sharing that. My mind was going in that dark direction last night also.

There is no indication of a ring yet. Right now it looks to me like Sandusky had enablers...


I want to get into that center...I want to know Sandusky's background.

wonder if Paterno is mobbed up?

 

[believe09]

I think it is interesting to bring up a possible mob connection-I think that this seems possible given the money in sports and in betting.

Would they support a pedophile however? I mean, this would be a situation that was bound to come out.

 

[minazoe]

also Ray may have been dealing with an erased or destroyed hard drive involved in a case he was working on. His inquires could have merely been coincidental.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

So why didn't RG prosecute when he had a confession from Sandusky? Was RG another person in the Penn State saga to drop the ball? I think the current DA needs to answer that question. The victims and the public deserve that much.

It is unfathomable. RFG did prosecute cases, weaker cases, often personally, and did prosecute people associated with the football team and PSU in general.

 

[RubyRed]

There are so many twists and turns in Ray's disappearance. Does anyone else remember that his brother did something similar? Went out and didn't return, and it was ruled a suicide. His body was found in the Great Miami River in Ohio.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/gricar_ray.html

 

[J. J. in Phila]

my feeling is that Ray was forced into the trunk of another car or the back of a van.

I think his keys were retrieved later and someone went back to the car and destroyed his laptop, I think that's when the smoking occurred.

Why did he have this little used laptop with him.