PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #9

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J. J. in Phila said:
In Exhibit 2B in the Freeh Report, I noticed something.

Harmon sent an e-mail to Schultz on 5/13/98 and he was talking about the investigation. Seasock has talked to Victim 6, apparently. Harmon know and knows that they [possibly Schreffler and Lauro?] have not talked to him. Harmon's last line is "I've also been advised that they want to resolve this quickly."

Schreffler and Lauro talked obviously, and Schreffler reported to Harmon, but I have not seen any suggestion that Schreffler was trying to move quickly on Sandusky. In fact, it would be more than a fortnight until the investigation was closed, and Schreffler recommended charges. So, where did Harmon get that impression?
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Maybe that was a quick investigation for Centre County in 1998. There were several days lapses in between the email exchanges of Harmon, Schultz, and Curley. No one seemed to be in too big of a hurry, which is why "coach" was getting anxious, I guess.
 
BigCat said:
Maybe that was a quick investigation for Centre County in 1998. There were several days lapses in between the email exchanges of Harmon, Schultz, and Curley. No one seemed to be in too big of a hurry, which is why "coach" was getting anxious, I guess.
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The response seemed to be overnight. I'm still wondering where Harmon got the impression that "they" were trying to resolve it; I don't think he talked to Gricar. If Paterno talked to Gricar, he wouldn't be anxious.
 
Harmon claimed under oath that he never talked to anyone at the DA's Office or DPW. Maybe Schreffler thought it could be resolved quickly?
 
J.J. Where was JP during the time the emails were sent? Was it when JP uncharacteristically cancelled his appearances/vacation? Thanks.
 
waltzingmatilda said:
J.J. Where was JP during the time the emails were sent? Was it when JP uncharacteristically cancelled his appearances/vacation? Thanks.
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On the first, I have no idea.

Some posters, I think, did notice some cancellations around that time.

The e-mails do show that Curley said the "coach" was interested in what was happening. I don't think that is too unusual, since, in 1998, Sandusky was a subordinate and the incident occurred in the workplace. There is no suggestion that he intervened, however.
 
Thanks J.J.

I don't recall where I read itand don't have a link,

but the poster did some research on JP at the PSU library archives and noticed that JP was a man of his word who kept his speaking/fundraising engagements. But uncharacteristlically cancelled engagements during the time of the '98 investigation of JS.
After the investigation was over, JP resumed his schedule in JUne and never missed a committment for the rest of the year.

Consider this
RUMOR!

I'll search for a link in the meantime....
wm
 
waltzingmatilda said:
Thanks J.J.

I don't recall where I read itand don't have a link,

but the poster did some research on JP at the PSU library archives and noticed that JP was a man of his word who kept his speaking/fundraising engagements. But uncharacteristlically cancelled engagements during the time of the '98 investigation of JS.
After the investigation was over, JP resumed his schedule in JUne and never missed a committment for the rest of the year.

Consider this
RUMOR!

I'll search for a link in the meantime....
wm
Click to expand...

I do remember that there was a scheduling change being commented on by someone. The e-mails, however, seem to make it clear that Paterno was getting his information from Curley, but neither from either Lauro nor Gricar.
 
waltzingmatilda said:
Thanks J.J.

I don't recall where I read itand don't have a link,

but the poster did some research on JP at the PSU library archives and noticed that JP was a man of his word who kept his speaking/fundraising engagements. But uncharacteristlically cancelled engagements during the time of the '98 investigation of JS.
After the investigation was over, JP resumed his schedule in JUne and never missed a committment for the rest of the year.

Consider this
RUMOR!

I'll search for a link in the meantime....
wm
Click to expand...

It's on page 18 of this thread, I believe.
 
rlc said:
It's on page 18 of this thread, I believe.
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Not page 18, but I think it was on one of the trial threads. I remember reading it, however, so I don't think either you or WM are delusional. :)

I think the e-mails, however, indicated that Paterno was not in contact with RFG, or Lauro, for that matter.
 
After reading the recent posts, I was trying to remember what else went on in 1998. I'm struggling to google, because it seems that there have been way too many things published in the last year for me to possibly get to the ancient stuff. but I want to see if anyone knows--

What was the status of the stadium expansion as of the 1998 Sandusky incident? Did the expansion rely on donated funds? Was the project started but not fully funded? What would have been the consequences of donors pulling out? Who managed the donated funds? Did JVP have any obligations with regard to raising funds, such that a failure to do so would have resulted in personal consequences to him? If the funds were donated, do we have a list of big donors?

I recall thinking when the RC charges hit (2000) that JVP had changed his stance. That he previously had players who had even the appearance of impropriety sit out, whereas starting with RC, he seemed to take the innocent until proven guilty approach. Am I remembering this correctly or is my perception skewed? If I am remembering it correctly, it would look to me that JVP may have been attempting to justify his own lackluster response to JS by convincing him it was based on some ideal (innocent until proven guilty) rather than money and football and misplaced loyalty.

Just thinking online, but if anyone knows off the top of their head, I would find it helpful. The answers to those may make it more or less likely that JVP in fact pressured RFG to not press charges.
 
rlc said:
Just thinking online, but if anyone knows off the top of their head, I would find it helpful. The answers to those may make it more or less likely that JVP in fact pressured RFG to not press charges.
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I was looking for contact, in 1998, between RFG and, well, any of the big four. There was nothing in the e-mails that would indicate that.
 
J. J. in Phila said:
I was looking for contact, in 1998, between RFG and, well, any of the big four. There was nothing in the e-mails that would indicate that.
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Well, FG had contact with RFG, right? I'm not sure if this means anything, but FG also had a son who I think would have been graduating on May 15, 1998 the day JS gave the commencement speech, and the day JP came home from a fundraising trip early. Just a few days after RFG got hard evidence that the 1998 incident occurred, right? Or am I mixing up dates?

I can't download the report right now (just tried three times) to refresh my memory on the 1998 emails and notes, but is there any chance it was FG involved rather than JP? If FG heard the rumors, took them to JP, but JP is busy with fundraising and told FG to handle them? That may explain the RFG/FG meeting in October.

I am going to try to download the report again. I may have dates mixed up.
 
rlc said:
Well, FG had contact with RFG, right? I'm not sure if this means anything, but FG also had a son who I think would have been graduating on May 15, 1998 the day JS gave the commencement speech, and the day JP came home from a fundraising trip early. Just a few days after RFG got hard evidence that the 1998 incident occurred, right? Or am I mixing up dates?

I can't download the report right now (just tried three times) to refresh my memory on the 1998 emails and notes, but is there any chance it was FG involved rather than JP? If FG heard the rumors, took them to JP, but JP is busy with fundraising and told FG to handle them? That may explain the RFG/FG meeting in October.

I am going to try to download the report again. I may have dates mixed up.
Click to expand...

Paterno, from what the link said, cancelled the trip and returned. There is no suggestion of contact between and of the Gang of Four in May or June of 1998 and FG, relating to Sandusky, nor between FG and RFG at that time.

There is that 10/13/98 meeting between FG, RFG, Schreffler, Ralston and Sloane. Sloane doesn't remember the purpose.
 
Tonight, between 6 and 7, there is a fringe, pro-Penn State podcast that will be discussing RFG. They claim to have "new evidence" about the 98 case. I really don't know much about the show's quality. Clearly, the hosts don't pretend to be objective. But they will be discussing RFG, if anyone is interested.

http://notpsu.blogspot.co.uk/
 
BigCat said:
Tonight, between 6 and 7, there is a fringe, pro-Penn State podcast that will be discussing RFG. They claim to have "new evidence" about the 98 case. I really don't know much about the show's quality. Clearly, the hosts don't pretend to be objective. But they will be discussing RFG, if anyone is interested.

http://notpsu.blogspot.co.uk/
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It has been postponed or "POST PONED" in the words of the entry. :)
 
J. J. in Phila said:
You are making a very good argument for walkaway. :)



Well, I've known a few women that are both methodical and cold. :) I don't like to quite so stereotype.

One murder theory, and it is still active, is that RFG met a woman for a tryst. They went to perhaps a vacation home in a rural area; and the area around Lewisburg is rural. There was an argument and in the heat of passion, she killed him. She hid the body on the premises. A disused well would be one possibility, but a shallow grave would be another.

A woman, even a diminutive one, could move a body, and hide it, if she had most of the weekend, and maybe part of the next week, to do it. The key would not being seen, but that would be possible in a rural area.

That is one of the two or three scenarios that is keeping me up at night.
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Just cruising through, and although not relevant to Gricar, going back to the discussion of very few women kill a grown adult male and then go dispose of their bodies.

Google Larry McNabney's case...I knew him and his wife as good acquaintances. I knew his wife as named Elise McNabney. Her real name was Lauren Sims, IIRC. She was a petite gal, and he was big (tall).

Killed him by poisoning him with a horse tranquilizer (had another college student/part time employee help her for part of it), then getting him into their truck...drove to Yosemite, I believe...thought he was dead and they were going to bury him there,... and then found out he wasn't...so they drove him back to their house and he died there. They then stuffed him in a freezer and he remained there for many months. Then she decided to bury him in a shallow grave, where he was ultimately found. //// She covered up his disappearance to everyone by making up stories that he went to rehab, etc etc. It started on 9/10/01, and I believe he was found in February or early spring of 2002.

Okay, back to carrying on about Ray............. :)
 
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