Pageant Kids: A Rant

[Texana]

I don't like the pageants, but I also don't like overly-sexual costumes on little cheerleaders or drill team members, etc. I agree, the pedophiles find their victims no matter what.

edited to add: We have Internet sites, movies, and publications that cater to the sick and perverted. It is so easy and seemingly low risk to check out the "underage" sex sites--and the society of today feeds the beast.

Those who make money off perversion are more to blame than parents.

 

[Hyatt]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with the post-starter here and those who are criticizing the criticism of the sexualization of children.

As far as I am concerned, even if a woman was walking down the street butt-naked, I still wouldn't consider that she was "asking for it", so this either/or logic just doesn't wash with me. IMO NO WOMAN OR CHILD should ever be seen as "asking for it" just because of their attire. HOWEVER, just because I feel that way, and even though I know that women and children dressed in non-provocative ways still are assaulted and raped DOES NOT MEAN that the sexualization of children is not a problem., and that it is not a problem related to THIS case.

It is a HUGE problem in general and also here and I particularly have issues with parents dressing their kids up in a sexualized fashion. Had Patsy wanted to get dressed up Vegas-style or as a Marilyn Monroe look-a-like and parade around every night of the week - I would consider it tacky but would also say that it is her right to do so. Not so for six-year-olds dressed up that way by their parents. And while a child could get assaulted in a potato sack, repeatedly putting a child under 7 in the limelight of the beauty pagent, dressed up and gesturing in provocative fashion is not "cute" just because mom is "having a ball" reliving some weird trip through their offspring. To suggest that just because potato-sack-clad kids could also be victims, then provocative attire has no effect on pedophiles and is just innocent fun and games is illogical.

The truth is that this entire society entertains female esthetic ideals that feed straight into pedophilia i.e. it is the young female adolescent body (maybe even male) that is flagged up as an ideal. Fashion trend-setters run with it and young girls are being sexualized at a progressively earlier age. And then we all scratch our heads and wonder about the increasing number of sickos out there and how could they be attracted to young kids, blah blah blah. Well, sorry if you stop and think of the fact that by 30 - women of all walks of life, including prostitutes are considered "too old" and if we recognize that child prostitution is increasingly rampant and is catering to wealthy so-called "respectable" men then it is time that society as a whole take responsibility for what it encourages and recognize that it is inadvertently encouraging such "sickos" by MANY of its so-called "legitimate" practices - including parading 6-year olds in beauty pagents where they imitate sex symbols.

This is what was done to JonBenet Ramsey. It was irresponsible AND it was dangerous. And even though I do NOT think that this child was killed by some unknown seduced intruder, that does not make it okay to sexualize a minor. Sorry, but I was really sickened by what that child had been trained to do.

JMO

 

[Hyatt]

What you have to realize is that the "provocative" six-year old may well have a great deal to do with the reason that the potato-clad toddler would be assaulted.

I recently saw a documentary on child prostitution in Cambodia and I swear that the images of those terrified children still haunt me. And here's what really makes me see red: the customers going for those innocents (4-6 year-olds?) are largely upper-middle class Americans, whose wives are probably sitting around going "YUCK" regarding the whole issue on some net forum.

JMO

Consider my two posts here as: Beauty Pageants - A COUNTER-RANT

 

[julianne]

I recently saw a documentary on child prostitution in Cambodia and I swear that the images of those terrified children still haunt me. And here's what really makes me see red: the customers going for those innocents (4-6 year-olds?) are largely upper-middle class Americans, whose wives are probably sitting around going "YUCK" regarding the whole issue on some net forum.

I saw the same documentary, and it WAS sickening, and truly eye-opening for me. For the most part, I have always envisioned MEN being the sole adults involved in pedophilia. This TV show clearly shows us that is not the case, as we watched multiple WOMEN selling little girls out for sex. And you're right about the "customers" largely being upper-middle class Americans, (WHITE, I might add) and you can be assured they have nice little families at home who are totally oblivious to what is TRULY going on with hubby while he is away on his "business trip." They interviewed a Doctor there, and while on camera, he was asked why he traveled to Cambodia. He stated he was there for the beauty of temples of Ankor-Wat, etc....however, later, during a HIDDEN camera interview, the doctor said he often "bought" 3 little girls for a night for $50. SICK, SICK, SICK!!!

 

[southcitymom]

I don't think JBR being in a pageant got her killed. The pageant topic is just an excuse to find fault with the Ramseys. I see so many children who are truly mistreated and unhappy. They are with unfit parents that abuse and neglect them. I think the Ramsey children were loved and cared for very much. I admire Patsy for exposing JBR to modeling, acting, singing and dancing at an early age. John Ramsey has a grown son, I believe. If there had been abuse going on, the small children might not have reported it but the older one would have. These parents don't fit the profile of abusers at all. But Karr fits the profile of a pedophile and it would take one to do this.

It's so funny that this is your perspective, because I often perceive the pageant topic as an excuse to say an intruder did it (ie - it was someone who saw her as a result of her pageant activity and became obsessed with her and this led to the crime). I obviously don't believe JBR was killed by someone who saw her on the pageant circuit.

I personally am creeped out by the pageant thing at JBR's age. But that's just my perspective.

 

[openminded1]

It all depends on what you see. I mean, even the most outlandish costumes JBR wore looked simply adorable to me as a mommy. The little dances and songs she did reminded me of Shirley Temple. I think it is so cute to see little ones dance and sing. And dressing up with little girls is precious...

I loved your whole post. I'm sitting here now looking at a pic of my dd from last year at age 4 in her dance recital costume. The costume is red with sequins and a tutu skirt. Dd is wearing a red feather hairpiece and full makeup. It's definately a Vegas showgirl type outfit- as a matter of fact everytime she put in on we'd sing "Copa Cabana". It was a recital, and just like *some* pageants it was about glitz and glamour and putting on a show.

In my personal experience, people are always quick to jump on the parents of a child who is accomplished in any area- academics, beauty pageants, arts. Other parents are the worst- at least in my experience. They automatically assume it is something the parents are doing to "make" the child this way. Then they come up with reasons as to why whatever the parents are supposedly doing is wrong so they can justify to themselves why their child is not reading at 2, or winning Little Miss Colorodo, or playing Bach at 6yo.

 

[LoneDuck]

She is a little girl. A year or so before, she probably would have been anywhere in public in just a diaper! So, how in the heck could it be suggestive or adult-like at six?

I think this bears repeating. Someone talked about the come hither glances in the pageant videos. A six year is not giving come hither glances. Because she's six. A six year old shaking her butt? Again, it's not sexual because it a six year old doing it. There is nothing sexy or whorish about a six year old no matter what she's wearing or doing. If people think JonBenet looked sexy or was trying to be sexy perhaps they're projecting their own pedophilic tendencies. Pretty little girls are molested, ugly little girls are molested, little girls wearing bathing suits are molested and little girls in sweats are molested. The one common thing is that they're little girls and, by definition, pedophiles are sexually attracted to children. No where does it state a dress code for what attracts pedophiles.

If one honestly thinks there are hundreds of pedophiles wandering around pageants, they clearly do not know what they're talking about. It's a very closed world where most of the contestants and their families know each other. If some man kept showing up seemingly unattached, he would be shown the door.

When JonBenet was wearing the showgirl outfit, she was just a little girl wearing a costume (costume being defined as not everyday clothing). She was not a tart, a *advertiser censored*, or sexy. Her parents were not "pimping" her. People make it sound as if the Ramsey's were forcing her to do these pageants without stopping to think that maybe JonBenet, like many other little girls, enjoyed participating in the pageants.

 

[Amity]

LoneDuck said: Someone talked about the come hither glances in the pageant videos. A six year is not giving come hither glances. Because she's six. A six year old shaking her butt? Again, it's not sexual because it a six year old doing it.

LoneDuck, I understand exactly what you are saying here and I don't disagree, well, I don't know how I feel as I'm still wrestling with it all, but still....
Yes, to you, me, the average "Normal" human being the little girl shaking her little butt is darn cute! Heck, I have plenty of VHS movies of my grandchildren shaking their little butts while dancing and we even zoomed in on those shots because they are just so darned adorable.

But we are not talking the "normal" here. We are talking perverse, sick, ill of mind and thought individuals who see things that aren't there.
Heck, my aunt swore that the billboard with our local newscaster's picture on it was staring at her, talking to just her and telling her to start her house on fire so that he could have something to report.
Of course, this was about 8 months before she was finally dx'd as being schizophrenic. But if you listened to her talk (more like rant) you could see she believed that newscaster was talking specifically to her...she believed it with all of her being.
With all the science out there, we don't really know exactly all that is in the mind of a pedo, or any mentally sick person for that matter.
A pedo might look at one of those cute little girls and think the girl was specifically motioning to him and him alone. Those glances were directed at only him. Am I making sense?

 

[Mabel]

If it's necessary to have a beauty pageant for little girls, why not dress them like little girls and judge them (God, what an awful thing, judging little girls on their looks!) as they truly are?

I think it's horribly sad that these girls who, as someone posted, are just out of diapers, are being taught that it's a good thing to act and look older than what they really are. Why can't they just be children? Why do they have to be taught that their whole self worth lies in their physical appearance? I thought this was something society was attempting to change.

 

[txsvicki]

Karr is obsessed with JonBenet and could have been able to go to some of the pageants or see newspaper photos where he became even more fixated and obsessed. He had to find out about her somewhere and had to fuel his obsessions. If he did this, then I think he is also a serial killer who planned the whole thing out in advance. Putting JonBenet into the public eye could have made her more vulnerable to kidnappers, serial killers, and pedophiles because she was so beautiful, talented, and wealthy. I don't people should put any kid's pics online, in the newspapers, let them walk anywhere alone or with a group of kids, or let them play outside in front yards and parks alone (if at all) in this day and age.

 

[kazzbar]

Karr is obsessed with JonBenet and could have been able to go to some of the pageants or see newspaper photos where he became even more fixated and obsessed. He had to find out about her somewhere and had to fuel his obsessions. If he did this, then I think he is also a serial killer who planned the whole thing out in advance. Putting JonBenet into the public eye could have made her more vulnerable to kidnappers, serial killers, and pedophiles because she was so beautiful, talented, and wealthy. I don't people should put any kid's pics online, in the newspapers, let them walk anywhere alone or with a group of kids, or let them play outside in front yards and parks alone (if at all) in this day and age.

I do not let my kids do any of these things because we have had some really awful cases here where kids have been taken and abused. I guess reading lots of crime stuff has it's effects also.

 

[Lauren]

Maybe the Ramsey's also traveled to close areas where Karr was at for various pageants and lord knows it could be a mecca for perverts. It would be interesting to see if she had any pageants close to his home area.

 

[hoppyfrog]

What you have to realize is that the "provocative" six-year old may well have a great deal to do with the reason that the potato-clad toddler would be assaulted.

I think you're absolutely right. Totally spot on.

But then I had to chuckle when I noticed you wrote "potato-clad toddler." Can we safely assume you meant "potato sack-clad toddler"?

 

[LoneDuck]

Amity wrote:

A pedo might look at one of those cute little girls and think the girl was specifically motioning to him and him alone. Those glances were directed at only him. Am I making sense?

It makes sense, but we must remember we cannot control other people's thoughts and actions, just as your family could not convince your aunt that the newscaster was not communicating with her through the billboard. We can dress our daughters in potato sacks and a pedophile will still be sexually attracted to at least one of them for any number of reasons.

It's been pointed out many times that children can be preyed upon through basketball games, cheerleading, dance recitals, or by playing in their front yard. Maybe a pedophile thinks the cute eleven-year old girl sinking her foul shots is a sign that she loves him, or the girl on top of the pyramid is raising her arms because she's reaching out to him. Perhaps the child playing with a hula hoop in her front yard is sending him a signal that she's sexually ready. It sounds crazy to us, but to the pedophiles it's real. Just as real as your aunt believed the billboard was talking to her. Should we take down billboards in case someone else thinks they're being spoken to?


Mabel wrote:

If it's necessary to have a beauty pageant for little girls, why not dress them like little girls and judge them (God, what an awful thing, judging little girls on their looks!) as they truly are?

Why do we take a shower, maybe put on makeup, and make sure we're nicely dressed before going to a wedding or other formal event? I don't know if you have a daughter, but if her class picture were being taken, would you roll her out bed, dress her in whatever happened to be around and send her off to school with her hair all matted up and a stain on her shirt?

Our society cares about appearance, if only a little bit. Watch the media include a snide remark about his appearance and people here making fun of JMK's appearance and clothes. How can someone put down pageants when we judge people day in and day out based on their looks - the " bad feelings" we get when seeing a pedophile on TV for example? Is it because pageants are boldly doing what we are all doing passive-aggressively?

We can have pageants where little girls come in from playing in the mud, or where they're wearing overalls with messy hair. But the little girl who had a customed-made outfit with her hair done and makeup on - so her features don't fade under the bad lighting and make her look like a corpse - is going to win. If she looks the most "put together" and doesn't fall down on stage, she's going to win because generally she's aesthetically pleasing based on the basic standards our society has put forward.

The thing is, pageants are not always based on appearances only. Sometimes talent, interview, and personality are scored. Young girls can develop many positive traits by doing pageants. Patsy had a positive experience so why wouldn't she want the same for her daughter? Pageants are more than looks.

txsvicki wrote:

Karr is obsessed with JonBenet and could have been able to go to some of the pageants or see newspaper photos where he became even more fixated and obsessed. [snip] Putting JonBenet into the public eye could have made her more vulnerable to kidnappers, serial killers, and pedophiles because she was so beautiful, talented, and wealthy.

Okay, let's take away the pageant element and say JonBenet had her picture in the paper because she was the Girl Scout who sold the most cookies in Boulder. Karr still would've seen her picture and become obsessed. Of course putting her in the public eye in any way would've made her more vulnerable by the fact that you have a face and a name, but that happens to kids all of the time when they achieve special accomplishments.

I don't people should put any kid's pics online, in the newspapers, let them walk anywhere alone or with a group of kids, or let them play outside in front yards and parks alone (if at all) in this day and age.

(I'm assuming you meant to write "I don't think people...")

I agree with you as far as not putting kid's pictures online, but not letting them walk anywhere with a group of their friends or letting them play in their front yards? I don't think the answer is forbidding the children to do what children want to do. I think it's educating children to go with their gut instinct if they're uncomfortable. We have to go on the offense instead of being defensive.

 

[Lauren]

I try to picture my mom getting me into a pageant. I was such a tomboy. I didn't wear a dress till I was in 7th grade. Besides when I was a baby.

Pageants can be positive, but I like to see girls natural, not with fake teeth, hair, tans. The adult pageant circuits are brutal, let alone adults making some of the kids do it. Although I do believe some kids may enjoy dressing up.

Boys in sports can be just as bad, pushy parents, perverts,(not as many, but we hear of coaches and people associated with the sport(s)). Not quite the comparision I hoped that would sound like, but I made too much applesauce for my family. I should logg off. Why am I unable to do it? I tell ya, no self control here tonight.



Have a great evening friends~

 

[Rachael]

I honestly thought JonBenet was an amateur in the pageant world.. (just getting started). :waitasec:

 

[MistyM]

k first of all i thought jonbenet was absolutely precious in her little outfits. she was really pretty and adorable and so cute. yes her makeup and hairdos were quite extreme and made her look like a little mini me adult. but she was still so very innocent and we can't call her 'trashy' or 'whorish' that breaks my heart.

i must admit though, the fact that she looked SO much like a miniature woman and was so beautiful might make even normal men get a little tingly down there. which is probably gross to think about. i'm not saying all men. but my brother made a good point one day. he saw a couple of girls walking down the street, maybe 10 or 11 and we drove by them and he said OMG i can't believe i just 'checked' out those little girls. they were wearing short shorts, and make up and had really long hair. he felt so disgusted in himself for even thinking thoughts and was freaked out about it. i assured him he wasn't a pedo. that it's just natural i think for men to at first glance see a female dressed sexy/beautiful and get a sexual reaction. it's recognizing right after that in that split second that it's a child and the thoughts leave.

i'm mostly referring to being made up to the hilt. makeup and hair and costume. in a womanly way.

if you see a little girl in pigtails and a sunday dress and feel attraction then you might have problems.

 

[Lauren]

No idea how long she was in it. I was basing mine upper opinion by some (don't laugh) dr.Phil show on how far one mom was taking it. TO max extremes. There are pageant boards where the mothers are so brutal to one another. Making fun of kids. Just weird. But this one mom had a cute daughter, but she had all this fake stuff on her she looked like a Marie Osmond doll off QVC.:sick:

 

[MistyM]

wasn't it this board at one time that had some pageant mom links and pix and the moms flipped out came on here and gave everyone heck?

was this the board with the prison girlfriends too? can't remember those links would be awesome to find again. they were entertaining to say the least.

 

[Floh]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with the post-starter here and those who are criticizing the criticism of the sexualization of children.

As far as I am concerned, even if a woman was walking down the street butt-naked, I still wouldn't consider that she was "asking for it", so this either/or logic just doesn't wash with me. IMO NO WOMAN OR CHILD should ever be seen as "asking for it" just because of their attire. HOWEVER, just because I feel that way, and even though I know that women and children dressed in non-provocative ways still are assaulted and raped DOES NOT MEAN that the sexualization of children is not a problem., and that it is not a problem related to THIS case.

It is a HUGE problem in general and also here and I particularly have issues with parents dressing their kids up in a sexualized fashion. Had Patsy wanted to get dressed up Vegas-style or as a Marilyn Monroe look-a-like and parade around every night of the week - I would consider it tacky but would also say that it is her right to do so. Not so for six-year-olds dressed up that way by their parents. And while a child could get assaulted in a potato sack, repeatedly putting a child under 7 in the limelight of the beauty pagent, dressed up and gesturing in provocative fashion is not "cute" just because mom is "having a ball" reliving some weird trip through their offspring. To suggest that just because potato-sack-clad kids could also be victims, then provocative attire has no effect on pedophiles and is just innocent fun and games is illogical.

The truth is that this entire society entertains female esthetic ideals that feed straight into pedophilia i.e. it is the young female adolescent body (maybe even male) that is flagged up as an ideal. Fashion trend-setters run with it and young girls are being sexualized at a progressively earlier age. And then we all scratch our heads and wonder about the increasing number of sickos out there and how could they be attracted to young kids, blah blah blah. Well, sorry if you stop and think of the fact that by 30 - women of all walks of life, including prostitutes are considered "too old" and if we recognize that child prostitution is increasingly rampant and is catering to wealthy so-called "respectable" men then it is time that society as a whole take responsibility for what it encourages and recognize that it is inadvertently encouraging such "sickos" by MANY of its so-called "legitimate" practices - including parading 6-year olds in beauty pagents where they imitate sex symbols.

This is what was done to JonBenet Ramsey. It was irresponsible AND it was dangerous. And even though I do NOT think that this child was killed by some unknown seduced intruder, that does not make it okay to sexualize a minor. Sorry, but I was really sickened by what that child had been trained to do.

JMO

:clap: :clap: :clap:

What you have to realize is that the "provocative" six-year old may well have a great deal to do with the reason that the potato-clad toddler would be assaulted.

I recently saw a documentary on child prostitution in Cambodia and I swear that the images of those terrified children still haunt me. And here's what really makes me see red: the customers going for those innocents (4-6 year-olds?) are largely upper-middle class Americans, whose wives are probably sitting around going "YUCK" regarding the whole issue on some net forum.

JMO

Consider my two posts here as: Beauty Pageants - A COUNTER-RANT

:clap: :clap: :clap:


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