Pageant Kids: A Rant

[dingo]

k first of all i thought jonbenet was absolutely precious in her little outfits. she was really pretty and adorable and so cute. yes her makeup and hairdos were quite extreme and made her look like a little mini me adult. but she was still so very innocent and we can't call her 'trashy' or 'whorish' that breaks my heart.

i must admit though, the fact that she looked SO much like a miniature woman and was so beautiful might make even normal men get a little tingly down there. which is probably gross to think about. i'm not saying all men. but my brother made a good point one day. he saw a couple of girls walking down the street, maybe 10 or 11 and we drove by them and he said OMG i can't believe i just 'checked' out those little girls. they were wearing short shorts, and make up and had really long hair. he felt so disgusted in himself for even thinking thoughts and was freaked out about it. i assured him he wasn't a pedo. that it's just natural i think for men to at first glance see a female dressed sexy/beautiful and get a sexual reaction. it's recognizing right after that in that split second that it's a child and the thoughts leave.

i'm mostly referring to being made up to the hilt. makeup and hair and costume. in a womanly way.

if you see a little girl in pigtails and a sunday dress and feel attraction then you might have problems.

Im sorry MistyM.....but I can not agree with the middle part of your post at all....normal men do not get "tingly" over a six year old..:snooty: ..and I hope the normal men posting here will set you straight as well.
Im a female and I find your post very degrading to any normal male.

 

[Old Broad]

Pageants can be positive, but I like to see girls natural, not with fake teeth, hair, tans. The adult pageant circuits are brutal, let alone adults making some of the kids do it. Although I do believe some kids may enjoy dressing up.

Julia many pedophiles feel this way also, they will be more attracted to the fresh scrubbed look with no make up. Hair in pigtails and a little girl with a bandaid on her knee is enough to get him excited. A child can be targeted only for the reason of being a child! A pedophile is not looking for a young child to be an adult for them, they want that little girl innocence, they want to be the one to teach them all about "love"
A parent can protect their children in every way they can think, but IMO in some way they will be looked at by a preditor. It may be they are in the church Christmas Pagent and dressed as an angel or a shepard. Chances are there will be atleast one there in the pews who will find them sexually attractive. Yes these things happen even in church with children who are in no way "tarted up" It can be the little boy who's dressed in his Sunday Best just sitting with his family in the next pew fidgeting who catches the eye.

OB

 

[Hyatt]

I loved your whole post. I'm sitting here now looking at a pic of my dd from last year at age 4 in her dance recital costume. The costume is red with sequins and a tutu skirt. Dd is wearing a red feather hairpiece and full makeup. It's definately a Vegas showgirl type outfit- as a matter of fact everytime she put in on we'd sing "Copa Cabana". It was a recital, and just like *some* pageants it was about glitz and glamour and putting on a show.

In my personal experience, people are always quick to jump on the parents of a child who is accomplished in any area- academics, beauty pageants, arts. Other parents are the worst- at least in my experience. They automatically assume it is something the parents are doing to "make" the child this way. Then they come up with reasons as to why whatever the parents are supposedly doing is wrong so they can justify to themselves why their child is not reading at 2, or winning Little Miss Colorodo, or playing Bach at 6yo.

Sorry, playing Marilyn Monroe and playing Bach at 6 are two different things. One is sexualized and the other one is not and frankly there is little "accomplishment" in the former, just poor parental judgment. This theory and the one suggesting that only perverts are going to see it as sexualized because they themselves are turned on etc. are seeking to place blame on or insult those of us who see these practices for what they are rather than targeting the problem itself. I don't happen to find anything about the sex industry titillating or exciting because all I ever see there is misery, poverty, exploitation and despair. And frankly, the images of JonBenet in those get-ups looked totally pathetic to me. When asked by Larry King if she was a stage mother, Patsy answered "Yes. What's wrong with that?" Well, I see something wrong with that too and wonder if JBR's rather severe toilet-training issues weren't a result of that as well. I remember reading in one book that JonBenet was not always into all the aspects of that whole thing.

JMO

 

[gaia]

We've established there are pedophiles attracted to the "natural kid" as well as the "made-up" one. No argument there. I do think the world has changed and it's just not as safe as it used to be. It's just plain easier for kids to be snatched and they seem to be "out there" in abundance. When I was growing up, and it was during the '50's, kids went to school, maybe had a few school-related activities, maybe had girl scouts, maybe piano lessons, etc. Kids do all these things now, but they grow up at a younger age. They have cell phones, ipods, computers...it's so much easier for them to get out there and get involved with all kinds of people. I walked to school by myself, and my mom was very overprotective. There's no way I'd let a child do that now. I played in my yard, but was invited nextdoor for a few minutes and immediately molested by the teen young man living there. It took ten minutes! My mom, who checked on me constantly, actually LET me go to the neighbor's because the mother and sister were there, but THEY LEFT and in that time, I was used.

Sure, all kids are vulnerable whether they wear grown-up clothes and make-up or not, but I've got to tell ya, the whole world loves little girls dressed as women. It's been said but bears repeating that many men who aren't considered pedophiles really think girls in their early to mid teens have the optimum LOOK. Their skin is perfect and luminous and their bodies are just beginning to bloom. Seems like the media, tv, movies all cater to that look as well as the fashion industry. After all, models may not look very young in some ways, but their bodies are often kinda think and not very womanly...more pre-pubescent in some ways.

OK, I'm just repeating stuff already said, but I just know my mom had the opportunity to put me in the Miss Sunburst pageant when I was a little girl. I wanted to do it because I loved to wear pretty clothes and be catered for but she said no. My daughter was quite the beauty, but to hand it to her, she had no wish to do such a thing and I was very relieved. While I know the pageants emphasize other things besides looks, it's still the primary thing in my book and THAT'S NOT HEALTHY. This society is waaaay to locked into how someone looks...especially women. I'll be happy when the pageants have little to nothing to do with outfits and looks and more to do with abilities of some kind!!! like athleticism or intelligence or ability to play a musical instrument...not just be coached to sing some silly song and wink at the crowd!

 

[Mabel]

Mabel wrote:

Why do we take a shower, maybe put on makeup, and make sure we're nicely dressed before going to a wedding or other formal event? I don't know if you have a daughter, but if her class picture were being taken, would you roll her out bed, dress her in whatever happened to be around and send her off to school with her hair all matted up and a stain on her shirt?

Our society cares about appearance, if only a little bit. Watch the media include a snide remark about his appearance and people here making fun of JMK's appearance and clothes. How can someone put down pageants when we judge people day in and day out based on their looks - the " bad feelings" we get when seeing a pedophile on TV for example? Is it because pageants are boldly doing what we are all doing passive-aggressively?

We can have pageants where little girls come in from playing in the mud, or where they're wearing overalls with messy hair. But the little girl who had a customed-made outfit with her hair done and makeup on - so her features don't fade under the bad lighting and make her look like a corpse - is going to win. If she looks the most "put together" and doesn't fall down on stage, she's going to win because generally she's aesthetically pleasing based on the basic standards our society has put forward.

The thing is, pageants are not always based on appearances only. Sometimes talent, interview, and personality are scored. Young girls can develop many positive traits by doing pageants. Patsy had a positive experience so why wouldn't she want the same for her daughter? Pageants are more than looks.

Actually, I do have a daughter, and I teach her about hygiene, grooming, and dressing nicely and age appropriately. That is not at all the same as dressing her as an mini-adult and having her compete with other little girls to determine who is the prettiest. As a matter of fact, if she were to say to me that she's prettier than some other little girl, she'd get quite a talking to. If a group of superficial adults "judged" her to be prettier, or not as pretty as, other girls, they'd also hear from me.

I don't know if Karr became aware of Jon Benet because of the pageants or not, however he didn't go to Colorado without a victim in mind. She was his target and he learned of her from somewhere. It doesn't really matter if he was turned on by her adult look or by her little girl look. He's a sicko regardless.

 

[Hyatt]

Lone Duck: Not everyone finds flash and sequins and people decked out like Christmas trees more "beautiful" than genuine human beings doing genuine things like gardening (digging in the dirt) or playing in the mud etc. Many esthetic view points prefer the authentic to the artificial and prioritize people acting like SUBJECTS doing REAL things rather than OBJECTS posturizing. And it is THAT difference which allows some to see beauty in a grandmother's wrinkles rather than in a boring old mass-produced script which JonBenet, at six, was already initiated into incarnating. I DID notice that John Ramsey, when asked if he went to the pageants by Larry King said "I would go to the talent portion and I encouraged her to pursue that." How ironic in this case that it was a member of a group not enslaved by expectations of objectification that sensed, at least partially, why the images of his daughter shocked the world. Because, I might add here, those images shocked many people worldwide.

JMO

 

[Trino]

If we're talking about raising children, what about Burke? Shouldn't the Ramseys have emphasized the potential of Burke in the same manner as JB? It seems that all the $ and time was spent on JB. Was Burke in athletic competition, artistic endeavors, - anything?

 

[Hyatt]

We've established there are pedophiles attracted to the "natural kid" as well as the "made-up" one. No argument there. I do think the world has changed and it's just not as safe as it used to be. It's just plain easier for kids to be snatched and they seem to be "out there" in abundance. When I was growing up, and it was during the '50's, kids went to school, maybe had a few school-related activities, maybe had girl scouts, maybe piano lessons, etc. Kids do all these things now, but they grow up at a younger age. They have cell phones, ipods, computers...it's so much easier for them to get out there and get involved with all kinds of people. I walked to school by myself, and my mom was very overprotective. There's no way I'd let a child do that now. I played in my yard, but was invited nextdoor for a few minutes and immediately molested by the teen young man living there. It took ten minutes! My mom, who checked on me constantly, actually LET me go to the neighbor's because the mother and sister were there, but THEY LEFT and in that time, I was used.

Sure, all kids are vulnerable whether they wear grown-up clothes and make-up or not, but I've got to tell ya, the whole world loves little girls dressed as women. It's been said but bears repeating that many men who aren't considered pedophiles really think girls in their early to mid teens have the optimum LOOK. Their skin is perfect and luminous and their bodies are just beginning to bloom. Seems like the media, tv, movies all cater to that look as well as the fashion industry. After all, models may not look very young in some ways, but their bodies are often kinda think and not very womanly...more pre-pubescent in some ways.

OK, I'm just repeating stuff already said, but I just know my mom had the opportunity to put me in the Miss Sunburst pageant when I was a little girl. I wanted to do it because I loved to wear pretty clothes and be catered for but she said no. My daughter was quite the beauty, but to hand it to her, she had no wish to do such a thing and I was very relieved. While I know the pageants emphasize other things besides looks, it's still the primary thing in my book and THAT'S NOT HEALTHY. This society is waaaay to locked into how someone looks...especially women. I'll be happy when the pageants have little to nothing to do with outfits and looks and more to do with abilities of some kind!!! like athleticism or intelligence or ability to play a musical instrument...not just be coached to sing some silly song and wink at the crowd!

I once saw a program about models. They first showed a model at work who looked like she was between 18 and 21. Then they showed her at home playing on the swings, pigtails and freckles. She was REALLY only about 8-10 years old. That was a real eye-opener for me. It is because of incidents like those that I feel that society does indeed inadvertently encourage pedophilia.

JMO

 

[Old Broad]

I once saw a program about models. They first showed a model at work who looked like she was between 18 and 21. Then they showed her at home playing on the swings, pigtails and freckles. She was REALLY only about 8-10 years old. That was a real eye-opener for me. It is because of incidents like those that I feel that society does indeed inadvertently encourage pedophilia.

JMO

And aren't all of us here part of the society? Alot of money is made every year from all this advertizing. Until people actually stop buying it will continue.

There is only one company that has come out with a good healthy way of advertising IMO and that is the Dove line talking about the real beauty of every woman. The models are every day people, every age and normal size.

OB

 

[Lauren]

Julia many pedophiles feel this way also, they will be more attracted to the fresh scrubbed look with no make up. Hair in pigtails and a little girl with a bandaid on her knee is enough to get him excited. A child can be targeted only for the reason of being a child! A pedophile is not looking for a young child to be an adult for them, they want that little girl innocence, they want to be the one to teach them all about "love"
A parent can protect their children in every way they can think, but IMO in some way they will be looked at by a preditor. It may be they are in the church Christmas Pagent and dressed as an angel or a shepard. Chances are there will be atleast one there in the pews who will find them sexually attractive. Yes these things happen even in church with children who are in no way "tarted up" It can be the little boy who's dressed in his Sunday Best just sitting with his family in the next pew fidgeting who catches the eye.

OB

True, there is no rhymn or reason on what floats their sick boats!

 

[Maybe So]

I'm not into the whole pageant thing but some are. Perhaps some take it way too far....depends on if the kid is enjoying it or if it becomes too much pressure and taken to seriously by the parents. I agree that makeup should be minimal and the point should be to look like a chilid not a miniature grown up sex symbol. Tell the judges...they are the one's who set the standard by who they place in first place.

But honestly there are kids dressed way more scantily at any pool or swimming beach...yet no one sees that as "wrong" in any way. Even though a swimming suit covers no more than underwear would.

I don't really know if pedos like to look at children dressed up and madeup like the pageant type thing or not.

 

[openminded1]

Sorry, playing Marilyn Monroe and playing Bach at 6 are two different things. One is sexualized and the other one is not and frankly there is little "accomplishment" in the former, just poor parental judgment. This theory and the one suggesting that only perverts are going to see it as sexualized because they themselves are turned on etc. are seeking to place blame on or insult those of us who see these practices for what they are rather than targeting the problem itself. I don't happen to find anything about the sex industry titillating or exciting because all I ever see there is misery, poverty, exploitation and despair. And frankly, the images of JonBenet in those get-ups looked totally pathetic to me. When asked by Larry King if she was a stage mother, Patsy answered "Yes. What's wrong with that?" Well, I see something wrong with that too and wonder if JBR's rather severe toilet-training issues weren't a result of that as well. I remember reading in one book that JonBenet was not always into all the aspects of that whole thing.

JMO

I don't see anything sexual about JonBenet's participation in pageants, no more than I see dressing my own daughter up in glitzy recital costumes with makeup is "sexualizing" her. There is a lot of hard work that goes into preparing for those pageants. The girls must learn a piece to present for the talent competition, they have to learn how to walk and speak properly, how to spot the judges when the walk past, etc. The prizes are not given to the girl who is merely the prettiest. Poise, talent, and speaking ability count toward those scores. There are also pageants that are no-makeup and do not allow pro-am style modeling. The girls model playclothes and party dresses. "Pageant" does not automatically translate to girls in full makeup and glitzy costumes.

While pageants are not an activity that I would chose for my daughter, I think the work and talent it takes to compete in them is admirable- never mind the amount of time it involves and the money the parents spend on costumes, stylists, and photographs. When there are so many parents who only spend a few hours a day with their infants or young children, or those who let kids watch cartoons and do whatever they please all day, I commend any activity that involves the parent devoting considerable time and resources to their child.

One thing I *am* horrified by is the trashy clothing that is marketed to little girls. This is not meant for pageantry and for show, but to be worn every day by little girls. I see little girls my daughter's age walking around with shirts that say "Spoiled Brat" and "Little Hottie". *That* is trashy IMHO.

Here's an example of the stuff I have to wade through everytime I go shopping for dd's clothes- notice sizes 4,5, and 6X are sold out
http://www.klassykidsclothes.com/kashtenskirt1.html

At least JonBenet's pageant outfits didn't look like something you would see a streetwalker wearing!

As for the toilet training issues, I knew a 6yo girl that had frequent accidents and bedwetting. She never competed in pageants or anything else for that matter. Some kids are simply that way, and it is no fault of the parents.

 

[celia]

Take a look at this photo on a pageant site & tell me it isnt wrong, in so many ways....
http://www.ak47.tv/009/beauty_pageants/
Why would the parents of this child allow this pic on the internet?
I can only imagine (with a shudder) how many creepy men have copied it....their twisted little minds would be convincing themselves that the makeup (especially on her lips) are proving she "wants it".......
For me this pic is the epitome of wrongness...to the point I think her parents should be charged with child abuse!

NOTE: for some reason,the link doesnt immediately bring up the picture I am talking about....click thru to the 4th pic...it has 09 at the top...the topless pic...

 

[Mabel]

I assume you're referring to the 4th picture that comes up, the little girl with blond hair made up to look like an adult with no top on. I do find that pic to be very disturbing.

EDIT: So far I've gone though 7 or 8 pics and have yet to find one little girl who looks as if she's having a good time. They either look miserable or terrified.

 

[celia]

I assume you're referring to the 4th picture that comes up, the little girl with blond hair made up to look like an adult with no top on. I do find that pic to be very disturbing.

EDIT: So far I've gone though 7 or 8 pics and have yet to find one little girl who looks as if she's having a good time. They either look miserable or terrified.

That struck me, as well........not ONE of them is smiling....which kind of blows the theory that kids love the pageants...

 

[openminded1]

Take a look at this photo on a pageant site & tell me it isnt wrong, in so many ways....

Why would the parents of this child allow this pic on the internet?..

That is sick, but I don't think it is representative of the majority of pageant kids. I have never heard of a pageant where children were required to parade around in the nude. Actually, in reading the corresponding Blog, it seems that the anti-pageant writer of the blog was the one who took/gathered the photographs. If you continue to click through, there is another picture of a topless girl in there. As a parent, I would never allow such a picture to be put on the internet, but I believe the Blogger is as much to blame as the parents here. I wonder if the parents even know those photos are on the internet.

I immediately dismiss the writer, as she states that these kids are "not able to comprehend" the situation. These are the same types who say a 5 year old is not able to read and comprehend Shakespeare or books about string theory- just because their own 5 year old or other 5 year olds they know are not capable of doing so.

The rest of the little girls do not look to be made into minature adults to me. True, they are wearing a lot of makeup, but it is for the stage. The clothes are typical pageant dresses- obviously little girl's dresses. I don't know any women who dress that way.

Edited to add: I could find many, many pictures of my daughter during activities she enjoys where she does not look like she is having a good time. It is so easy to take a bunch of pictures and pull the ones you want to make a point. Actually, the kids look bored, not unhappy- who can blame them- they have to sit for an hour or more to get their hair and makeup done. My daughter hates to sit while I do her hair in the mornings- much less special occasions and recitals.

 

[Lauren]

They all have bleached hair like Jon Bonet's. Let's cut the crap, it's bleached out with real bleach not highlights, which is wrong anyways. The girl with no top on is sick a pervs dream, and the mom with the smoke in her mouth come on. The first little girl just looks thrilled to be there. So sad.

 

[gaia]

Watched a "special" on TV some time ago about child beauty pageants and it was very absorbing. Can't, for the life of me, remember the name of it now, but I'm sure some of you have seen it. It's been on several times, actually. I think I saw it on HBO, but also on A&E and maybe PBS, but just can't really remember now. At any rate, I saw a lot of unhappy little girls. They were tired and "over it" and just wanted to go to sleep or quit trying to remember what to say or stop having to do the dance steps. I saw this with several little girls. Now, there were older girls, probably in their early teens, who seemed to be "into" the pageants, so I have less problem with what I saw about them...except to say they looked very much like street-walkers to me...when they had on their pageant "look". I was kinda horrified!

I was struck by how many of the fathers were really participating with the mothers. They drove them to the pageants...especially when they were out of town, and sat there in the hotel room going through the routines and making suggestions. Many of these families did not appear to be wealthy at all, so this was costing them in rather important ways. If there was another child in the family, he/she was kinda in the corner while the "star" was catered to.

I saw little girls crying, being "threatened" by mom, and tired. I saw mothers barely able to sit in their seats, mouthing all the songs and mimicking the dance, while also looking like they were going to "die" before the judging was completed. I saw mothers looking like the world was over when their daughter lost. It just wasn't pretty. Yes, I did see the opposite, but not very much. There were some fairly happy kids and mothers, but most of the time it seemed to be because they won!

Just thinking about what I saw makes me wonder if there wasn't something else these families could have done with their time together that would have been so much more enriching than these pageants.

Just my opinion based on what I saw. I know there are those of you on here who feel the opposite about this and are sensitive to this subject. I'm not trying to pick fights or hurt feelings, so I apologize in advance if that's what I've done.

gaia

 

[Hyatt]

That is sick, but I don't think it is representative of the majority of pageant kids. I have never heard of a pageant where children were required to parade around in the nude. Actually, in reading the corresponding Blog, it seems that the anti-pageant writer of the blog was the one who took/gathered the photographs. If you continue to click through, there is another picture of a topless girl in there. As a parent, I would never allow such a picture to be put on the internet, but I believe the Blogger is as much to blame as the parents here. I wonder if the parents even know those photos are on the internet.

I immediately dismiss the writer, as she states that these kids are "not able to comprehend" the situation. These are the same types who say a 5 year old is not able to read and comprehend Shakespeare or books about string theory- just because their own 5 year old or other 5 year olds they know are not capable of doing so.

The rest of the little girls do not look to be made into minature adults to me. True, they are wearing a lot of makeup, but it is for the stage. The clothes are typical pageant dresses- obviously little girl's dresses. I don't know any women who dress that way.

Edited to add: I could find many, many pictures of my daughter during activities she enjoys where she does not look like she is having a good time. It is so easy to take a bunch of pictures and pull the ones you want to make a point. Actually, the kids look bored, not unhappy- who can blame them- they have to sit for an hour or more to get their hair and makeup done. My daughter hates to sit while I do her hair in the mornings- much less special occasions and recitals.

Geez Openminded1! Why do you keep on comparing these pageants with examples of precocious children playing Bach and reading Shakespeare etc. before other kids the same age and then harping on the so-called "jealousy" of others whose children aren't as brilliant as others? IMO, perhaps you keep on returning to the assumption of competition in the minds of those who have a problem with these pageants because the entire pageant thing is about competition at a very early age so maybe there is some projection going on here. But frankly not all parents of exceptionnaly talented children foster in them the idea that excellence is a matter of rank and of winners and losers. And I'm willing to bet that none of them channel that precocious talent (I mean REAL talent) into miniature replicas of adult cattle shows.

Competition is the only word that links your examples to these pageants because other than that, parading around in the costumes mommy has seen fit to stick a child into - some more innappropriate, tacky and provocative than others - is a highly dubious definition of "talented" - no matter how much money or time has gone into it.

JMO

 

[openminded1]

Just thinking about what I saw makes me wonder if there wasn't something else these families could have done with their time together that would have been so much more enriching than these pageants.

I feel the same way. I mean,when a 5 year old can barely read but has a $200 dress- come on, spend your money at the bookstore instead!!!!