Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #16

[texaslb218]

I just found a Dutch news site that translates into English. And I mean a real human translation!

It is www.dutchnews.nl

In their latest piece on Joran today, Anita has admitted "she had spoken to Joran shortly before he fled to Chile and he sounded very paranoid. He felt he was being 'followed and looked at,'

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2010/06/my_son_is_sick_in_his_head_say.php

She also said, Joran fled to Peru "to avoid being admitted to a closed unit in a psychiatric hospital in the Netherlands."

I read this on another site and could not find the source so I couldn't bring it here. It also mentions that AVS said (paraphrasing) that JVS had nothing to do with NH, but he might have done something bad to SF. She said he was mentally ill and needed to be confined to a mental institution forever.

I hope I summarized this correctly. Thanks, Bobarino

 

[songline]

As soon as it happened I said it was money motivated because she won that last game they played and he robbed her. the rest of this is just a matter of time...
the only thing I Do not doubt is that he can get killed in this prison if he is found n the general population at any time. BUT they did say they will keep him isolated because it is an International case.
SO to me unless there is a good reason to put him in general population at some point. He will be safe for a long time. In the very least till the case is over.
ALSO: Stephenie's father will see to it that this guy does not get out of Peru at least till his time is served -if he manages to live that long.
I do want to see Natalie's Mom have some closure, and maybe he will finally give a true account of where Natalie is, but i doubt it.

I am getting board with him he is a dead man walking.
I am basically only interested in the trial and in justice and closure for the parents of these poor young girls.
He is not going to Aruba he is definitely cooked.
JMO

 

[Bobarino]

Good Morning Bobarino and all. I am curious about your last statement. Do you mean that we have not been told the 'full description of what he did to Stephany'? And if so, do you know the full description? How can it be worse than what we know? tia

Well it's just that the police report extensive damge to her face, and her brother said she was barely recognizable. He said he only struck her once with his elbow before strangling her. There are reports of one eyeball popping out. I have written here about what an elbow could do especially if she were held against a hard wall or floor when struck.

I have gone with what he said about a single elbow strike because the police didn't try to get him to change that. But elsewhere in the police report I see them say blows not blow to her. And it is always risky believing anything such a liar says. And such monsters are known to stomp on their victim, even after they are dead. You know, blaming the victim--"Look at wat you made me do."

So I have to prepare myself that I may be wrong, and all of us should prepare ourselves is what I am saying to you--for the possibility of very gruesome details including possibly new and horrific information. Hopefully not, but we should prepare ourselves.

The matter of the eye being out of her body [if true], someone here a few days ago, wrote could have come from his admitted lengthy strangling.

And remember he is a big guy, and I believe a very strong person even for his size, he was a good athlete ("fantastic sporter" according to Mama), plus maybe you know people that are "crazy' sometimes are very strong. (Different levels of neurotransmiiters and things IMO).

So with his size and strength it is possible that all he did has already been described. It is also possible that he left out much of what he did to her both while she was still alive, and afterwards.

 

[Pondering Mind]

and we all know how marijuana turns normal every day people into savage killers......

LOL poco! I have a *friend* who partakes every now and then to keep from feeling savage..:angel:..

Seriously, while it's true that people can have different reactions when smoking pot..I have to say that I have never seen nor heard of anyone becoming violent while under the influence of cannabis...paranoid, yes..some people have that side effect, but not violent. I'm certainly not saying it can't/hasn't/doesn't happen, just saying I believe it would be extremely rare (moo..fwiw )Can't say the same for other drugs nor alcohol though..


ETA~I think JVDS is just a violent person by his very nature...EVIL..mho

 

[songline]

:waitasec: I have been googling that for past hour or so and can't find much other than the mentally ill are cared for in regular hospitals (sounds like there's no special facilities for mental health patients)....might be the catch22 AVDS with lawyers are hoping for so that he could go the Netherlands or Aruba for treatment?

I hope he does not get out of Peru, if he does he will slip away.

 

[Bobarino]

I read this on another site and could not find the source so I couldn't bring it here. It also mentions that AVS said (paraphrasing) that JVS had nothing to do with NH, but he might have done something bad to SF. She said he was mentally ill and needed to be confined to a mental institution forever.

I hope I summarized this correctly. Thanks, Bobarino

Yes, Texas, we quoted that here yesterday. A few pages back when someone found it and we got a "robot" translation as Rotterdam calls it. I then wrote that I think Anita may be in denial about her own actions --or lack thereof--RE Natalie's murder. She may be trying to absolve herself of guilt. She says he may have killed Stephany because Joran was no longer under her care, but when he was, and likely killed Natalie, and he was under her care, she doesn't want to believe he did it.

Of course, we do not really know all that she may have tried to do over the years to get him to change. It is easy for us to blame her. But it may be very difficult if we put ourselves in her place. But it does appear that he may have been given a pass for all sorts of things he did. We just don't know all that the parents might have done to try to counter his spiraling criminal behavior.

I have a feeling we will see a book out of her. Joran too wrote a book. Most don't believe a word was true. We will see.

 

[FLNY]

I just found a Dutch news site that translates into English. And I mean a real human translation!

It is www.dutchnews.nl

In their latest piece on Joran today, Anita has admitted "she had spoken to Joran shortly before he fled to Chile and he sounded very paranoid. He felt he was being 'followed and looked at,'

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2010/06/my_son_is_sick_in_his_head_say.php

She also said, Joran fled to Peru "to avoid being admitted to a closed unit in a psychiatric hospital in the Netherlands."

Of course, he felt like he was being 'followed and looked at'. He was on the run to escape from a murder he'd just committed. Who wouldn't be paranoid at that point!! Jesh!!!

 

[Pondering Mind]

I hope he does not get out of Peru, if he does he will slip away.

I still believe that JVDS has more victims out there....From what we saw on the videos, murdering Stephany didn't even ruffle his feathers. He was the same way in the clips we saw of him after Natalies' disappearance. To be so young and be so dangerous..that's beyond frightening to me.

 

[jilly]

I vaguely remember this, why did he do that? I don't know if I buy the sick in the head business. Do you all? Barbarino???

I'm thinking the therapy might have been for addiction - that's the only thing AVS has come out and said. Of course now it could include that joran fell apart after his father died.
Barbarino makes a good point as to why she can't admit to him killing Natalie.

 

[Paintr]

Back on the 9th, I posted this comment...

I think that Aruba wants Joran back to convict him of Natelee's death, put him into a cushy mental home in Aruba & then declare him 'all better' in a year or so and release him.

Now I believe even more that is the game plan out of Aruba.

 

[texaslb218]

Yes, Texas, we quoted that here yesterday. A few pages back when someone found it and we got a "robot" translation as Rotterdam calls it. I then wrote that I think Anita may be in denial about her own actions --or lack thereof--RE Natalie's murder. She may be trying to absolve herself of guilt. She says he may have killed Stephany because Joran was no longer under her care, but when he was, and likely killed Natalie, and he was under her care, she doesn't want to believe he did it.

Of course, we do not really know all that she may have tried to do over the years to get him to change. It is easy for us to blame her. But it may be very difficult if we put ourselves in her place. But it does appear that he may have been given a pass for all sorts of things he did. We just don't know all that the parents might have done to try to counter his spiraling criminal behavior.

I have a feeling we will see a book out of her. Joran too wrote a book. Most don't believe a word was true. We will see.

oops. so sorry. I thought I had read every post to catch up. Back to lurking! Way to go on-the-ball WS'ers!!

 

[Bobarino]

Of course, he felt like he was being 'followed and looked at'. He was on the run to escape from a murder he'd just committed. Who wouldn't be paranoid at that point!! Jesh!!!

I thought of that too, FLNY. It's just with translation and all, can we be sure if he spoke with her after he killed Stephany? Not before?

But you may well be correct FLNY. But that would then go to his possible mental defense. He is really whacked and doesn't know the difference between fantasy and reality.

I also tried to make a joke out of earlier today. The old: "Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're really not after you."

But what do you think, FLNY, if he really called Mama after the horrors of what he had just done to Stephany and asked Mama, "why are they doing this to me, why are they after me?"

Does that make him "crazy"?

Or do you think, FLNY, and all you sleuthers, that it might even be possible that he is that good--made up the call in case he would get caught and try to play the insane card???

Please give is your thoughts.

 

[mck16]

Well it's just that the police report extensive damge to her face, and her brother said she was barely recognizable. He said he only struck her once with his elbow before strangling her. There are reports of one eyeball popping out. I have written here about what an elbow could do especially if she were held against a hard wall or floor when struck.

I have gone with what he said about a single elbow strike because the police didn't try to get him to change that. But elsewhere in the police report I see them say blows not blow to her. And it is always risky believing anything such a liar says. And such monsters are known to stomp on their victim, even after they are dead. You know, blaming the victim--"Look at wat you made me do."

So I have to prepare myself that I may be wrong, and all of us should prepare ourselves is what I am saying to you--for the possibility of very gruesome details including possibly new and horrific information. Hopefully not, but we should prepare ourselves.

The matter of the eye being out of her body [if true], someone here a few days ago, wrote could have come from his admitted lengthy strangling.

And remember he is a big guy, and I believe a very strong person even for his size, he was a good athlete ("fantastic sporter" according to Mama), plus maybe you know people that are "crazy' sometimes are very strong. (Different levels of neurotransmiiters and things IMO).

So with his size and strength it is possible that all he did has already been described. It is also possible that he left out much of what he did to her both while she was still alive, and afterwards.

Yep, I agree. All that blood had to of come from somewhere. Also, as far as her looks (unrecogonizable I think was what was said) she did lay there for 2 or 3 days so I am sure the decomp was extensive.

 

[mck16]

I thought of that too, FLNY. It's just with translation and all, can we be sure if he spoke with her after he killed Stephany? Not before?

But you may well be correct FLNY. But that would then go to his possible mental defense. He is really whacked and doesn't know the difference between fantasy and reality.

I also tried to make a joke out of earlier today. The old: "Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're really not after you."

But what do you think, FLNY, if he really called Mama after the horrors of what he had just done to Stephany and asked Mama, "why are they doing this to me, why are they after me?"

Does that make him "crazy"?

Or do you think, FLNY, and all you sleuthers, that it might even be possible that he is that good--made up the call in case he would get caught and try to play the insane card???

Please give is your thoughts.

Personally, and this is just my opinion I didn't really think he was crazy. Just mean as hell. But, now that his mother has said it I feel there really must be circumstances we are not aware of. And I believe that she has in fact tried to get him help and treatment for his condition or conditions. She may be relieved that he has been caught and may see a glimmer of hope that he may get treatment. I will also add that I think this is a desperate mother that does love her son, but she may really be afraid of him. Who knows what has gone on in that family.jmo

 

[jilly]

And most people can safely and happily eat wheat and dairy too.

But others have documented schizophrenia result when they do. The point to this is everyone is an individual and a small percentage of people have severe reactions, and such reactions are not limited to hives, they include psychotic and criminal behavior among a small percentage of people.

True. He's at the right age too.

 

[Bobarino]

Personally, and this is just my opinion I didn't really think he was crazy. Just mean as hell. But, now that his mother has said it I feel there really must be circumstances we are not aware of. And I believe that she has in fact tried to get him help and treatment for his condition or conditions. She may be relieved that he has been caught and may see a glimmer of hope that he may get treatment. I will also add that I think this is a desperate mother that does love her son, but she may really be afraid of him. Who knows what has gone on in that family.jmo

Thanks for your comment MCK16.

But I am hoping people can give me their thoughts specifically on this phone call Joran made to his mother.

If he actually asked her "why are they after me, Mama?" shortly after what he had just done to Stephany, are there more than the 2 choices I outlined?

He is crazy and doesn't know reality from fantasy--at least at times.

Or is he so clever, that if he should get caught, he was already working on some insanity defense?

Again, I am not giving him a pass. He needs to be locked up for the rest of his life.

But I would like to get people's feedback specifically on this call to his Mom.

1. Crazy, delusional? Didn't grasp what he had just done?

2. Not crazy, brilliantly and "depravedly" working on his insanity defense immediately?

3. Other--that I cannot see--please describe.

 

[FLNY]

I thought of that too, FLNY. It's just with translation and all, can we be sure if he spoke with her after he killed Stephany? Not before?

But you may well be correct FLNY. But that would then go to his possible mental defense. He is really whacked and doesn't know the difference between fantasy and reality.

I also tried to make a joke out of earlier today. The old: "Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're really not after you."

But what do you think, FLNY, if he really called Mama after the horrors of what he had just done to Stephany and asked Mama, "why are they doing this to me, why are they after me?"

Does that make him "crazy"?

Or do you think, FLNY, and all you sleuthers, that it might even be possible that he is that good--made up the call in case he would get caught and try to play the insane card???

Please give is your thoughts.

I must say that what has struck me all along is how cool, calm, cooperative and almost chummy Joran's been on all the videos we've seen of him interacting with LE, especially for someone so young. Even if innocent, I'd have been shaking in my boots and scared to death.

But, to me, he does look uncharacteristically bewildered on the videos of the 'fake' coffee incident. So, I wonder if he isn't thinking clearly when he tries to stage this as an alibi, when he had just returned from the 'real' coffee purchase 10-11 minutes earlier. I almost wonder if he wasn't so rattled that he actually did lock himself out of the room!

The impact of what he'd done may have just reached him and he realized he didn't have anyone to help him out of it...being in a foreign country and with his father deceased.

So, he may have called his mother as he fled to Chile and sounded scared and paranoid. Didn't he also call a friend saying that he'd just done 'something bad'. (Seems I read that here several days ago.) But, I do wonder if he actually told his mother what he'd done...but, how else would he explain this leaving for Chile?

Then, by the time he's apprehended, his 'charming' nature is back in force during his interactions with LE!

But, with all that said, I believe he is a psychopath and that a plea of insanity isn't justified, nor will it be accepted by the Peruvian courts.

It's just a shame that his parents didn't have him institutionalized for treatment before NH (I'm certain they'd recognized he had issues earlier in his youth)....all of this could possibly have been avoided.

 

[GetSmart]

I tell ya it gives me the creeps in the video shot of him in the limp wrist scene. You hear how people that are possessed change looks ect.. he looks so strange and even pale in that video....JMO

I had posted this before sorry about repeating myself but that stupid.. blank lost look could that be a split in his personality???

 

[CBTampa]

Thanks for your comment MCK16.

But I am hoping people can give me their thoughts specifically on this phone call Joran made to his mother.

If he actually asked her "why are they after me, Mama?" shortly after what he had just done to Stephany, are there more than the 2 choices I outlined?

He is crazy and doesn't know reality from fantasy--at least at times.

Or is he so clever, that if he should get caught, he was already working on some insanity defense?

Again, I am not giving him a pass. He needs to be locked up for the rest of his life.

But I would like to get people's feedback specifically on this call to his Mom.

1. Crazy, delusional? Didn't grasp what he had just done?

2. Not crazy, brilliantly and "depravedly" working on his insanity defense immediately?

3. Other--that I cannot see--please describe.

No, i think he just a pathological liar. IMO

 

[Bobarino]

I must say that what has struck me all along is how cool, calm, cooperative and almost chummy Joran's been on all the videos we've seen of him interacting with LE, especially for someone so young. Even if innocent, I'd have been shaking in my boots and scared to death.

But, to me, he does look uncharacteristically bewildered on the videos of the 'fake' coffee incident. So, I wonder if he isn't thinking clearly when he tries to stage this as an alibi, when he had just returned from the 'real' coffee purchase 10-11 minutes earlier. I almost wonder if he wasn't so rattled that he actually did lock himself out of the room!

The impact of what he'd done may have just reached him and he realized he didn't have anyone to help him out of it...being in a foreign country and with his father deceased.

So, he may have called his mother as he fled to Chile and sounded scared and paranoid. Didn't he also call a friend saying that he'd just done 'something bad'. (Seems I read that here several days ago.) But, I do wonder if he actually told his mother what he'd done...but, how else would he explain this leaving for Chile?

Then, by the time he's apprehended, his 'charming' nature is back in force during his interactions with LE!

But, with all that said, I believe he is a psychopath and that a plea of insanity isn't justified, nor will it be accepted by the Peruvian courts.

It's just a shame that his parents didn't have him institutionalized for treatment before NH (I'm certain they'd recognized he had issues earlier in his youth)....all of this could possibly have been avoided.

Excellent post, FLNY. Thank you.

I am not sure I knew about him telling he did "something bad." Any links?

We do know that he supposedly told the taxi drivers what he had done.

But can that be more evidence of how crazy (or stupid he is). He is supposed to be (and can be) smooth and cunning. Him telling them this when he wants to be driven to the border--and they then might refuse to help him--sounds stupid or crazy to me. And apparently the brilliant drivers thought more of how much they could then rip him off, for instead of the legal consequences.

But his telling a friend he did something bad is important. Anyone have a link?