Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #16

[panthera]

Geraldo's producer Guillermo is live in Lima: Joran will be represented by his lawyer to face Judge Morales on Monday at 10:00am. Some medical checks will again be performed. He will be before the judge for a few hours. Lawyer wants to have formal confession thrown out. Joran plans to change his plea to not guilty with a new attorney. Anita will not be travelling to Peru at least not until the case "cools down".

Les Levine is on Geraldo's show with Geraldo; he spoke with Anita this morning; believes confession was coerced. He's also talking about loopholes to reduce a potential sentence. Kimberly doesn't see why LE would want to force a confession that mitigates Joran's responsibility; they would want him to serve the maximum sentence. Kimberly also saying it is a hostile environment and she can see why his mother wouldn't go there. Geraldo asking them about the lawyer not being of Joran's choosing and if it could be an "appealable" issue. Kimberly saying the best person Joran could rely on now would be his mother to get him good counsel. Les saying there is a lynch mob mentality out there that wants to see Joran punished for Natalee so to give him the maximum punishment in Stephany's death; he's also talking about Stephany's father being as powerful in Peru as Paulus was in Aruba. Geraldo not getting the analogy. Kimberly is saying there is tremendous outrage in Peru because of who Stephany was.

on to another topic....the end

 

[epiphany]

KimG: such vitriol, odds are he will not last long in prison
Geraldo agrees

 

[Carolina Girl]

What happened to "he is one of us", on NG the other night? Or is it the people on the outside of prison ready for blood?

 

[panthera]

JVS family PI is on..interesting...did I just see that he will plead not guilty?

Yes, it was written on the tv screen. Plans to change plea to not guilty and wants to have the confession thrown out.

 

[legalmania]

Does anyone have any information on Stephanys mother? I saw a lady at the funeral with her head on Stephanys fathers shoulder. I'm not sure who that was.

 

[panthera]

What happened to "he is one of us", on NG the other night? Or is it the people on the outside of prison ready for blood?

I think it is the people on the outside. And remember that it was only one prisoner (IIRC) who made that "he is one of us" comment.

 

[legalmania]

What happened to "he is one of us", on NG the other night? Or is it the people on the outside of prison ready for blood?

I didn't believe that for a minute, that was just for the cameras. He's not Peruvian and I doubt if he will ever be considered one of them.

 

[Kat]

Do you recall if that student died?

Yes the student died. The teachers aide was not charged for the death. Although it was never stated outright I always thought that charges weren't brought forth because the child was a ward of the state of Texas.

A year or two later TX enacted new legislation that clearly defined how a employee of a school could touch and handle a student and restrain them. They also did away with putting children in small locked rooms alone (the size of closets) Those laws had been on the books too long I am glad they changed them.

I don't remember the students name but the incident occured at Manor Middle School in Killeen TX if anyone is interested to go look for themselves.

I'm not sure he suffered from flail chest he may well have. I do remember that his COD was compressive asphyxia. It was at that time I learned that there were many ways to asphyxiate a victim other than what we traditionally think of (strangling by neck). While following that case.

We know that wasn't Stephany's COD. But given that she has torso injuries that aren't clearly described I'm just offering that into consideration until we have all the facts because JVDS (again if he can be trusted in his recounting) says he sat on her chest at one point. Also if he sat on her chest, or used his knees against her chest to pin her down, she wouldn't have as many defense wounds and could have possibly grown faint from lack of oxygen or even passed out. He still could have continued to beat her after either and then deliver the blows that broke her neck.

She had blunt force trauma to what portions of her skull? I'm trying to remember I've been spending most of the day reading the Grand Jury PDF of the Sandra Cantu case. TIA.

ETA: Timeframe of death of above student would have been approx: 2000-2006.

 

[legalmania]

Here is Stephanys mom, that is the same lady I saw on the fathers shoulder. I can feel her pain.

http://www.daylife.com/photo/09oOcoE1PX3ZU

 

[Carolina Girl]

Yes the student died. The teachers aide was not charged for the death. Although it was never stated outright I always thought that charges weren't brought forth because the child was a ward of the state of Texas.

A year or two later TX enacted new legislation that clearly defined how a employee of a school could touch and handle a student and restrain them. They also did away with putting children in small locked rooms alone (the size of closets) Those laws had been on the books too long I am glad they changed them.

I don't remember the students name but the incident occured at Manor Middle School in Killeen TX if anyone is interested to go look for themselves.

I'm not sure he suffered from flail chest he may well have. I do remember that his COD was compressive asphyxia. It was at that time I learned that there were many ways to asphyxiate a victim other than what we traditionally think of (strangling by neck). While following that case.

We know that wasn't Stephany's COD. But given that she has torso injuries that aren't clearly described I'm just offering that into consideration until we have all the facts because JVDS (again if he can be trusted in his recounting) says he sat on her chest at one point. Also if he sat on her chest, or used his knees against her chest to pin her down, she wouldn't have as many defense wounds and could have possibly grown faint from lack of oxygen or even passed out. He still could have continued to beat her after either and then deliver the blows that broke her neck.

She had blunt force trauma to what portions of her skull? I'm trying to remember I've been spending most of the day reading the Grand Jury PDF of the Sandra Cantu case. TIA.

ETA: Timeframe of death of above student would have been approx: 2000-2006.

Yes he died:
"Male, 14, diagnosed with post traumatic stress and other disorders
Texas; public school
2002
•
230 lb. special education teacher placed 129 lb. student into a prone restraint and lay on top of him because he would not stay seated.
•
Student died as a result of compression of the trunk.
•
Death ruled a homicide, but no criminal charges filed.
•
Teacher currently teaches in Virginia and is licensed to instruct children with disabilities.

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d09719t.pdf

 

[i.b.nora]

So, Joe Tacopino said recently that he and the van der Sloots were no longer on good terms, but his P.I. Les Levine is representing the van der Sloot Family? Oh, brother!

 

[rotterdam]

This part of what he says though is troubling ~ is he inferring that Stephany's father's connections will pay to have Joran disposed of? If so, I disagree. MOO

""You know, that's a dangerous place. ... You've got murderers there, terrorists there - you've got bad people. And the problem he's facing is that the father of Stephany (Flores) ... is a prominent person. And this is an impoverished prison. And you pay off the right people, ya know, someone will stick a knife right in the guy."

I do too. Although I believe he is dedicated to ensure Joran will get what he deserves in Peru but does not include paid murder in prison. I also believe he wants to assist the Holloway family in finding out the truth about Natalee. The way he talked about Stephany being instrumental like almost a sacrifice in the Holloway case, makes me believe he is very determined getting the truth out of Joran by any kind of means.

 

[Bobarino]

Anything in autopsy report about broken ribs? Do we know? My mind is blank as to whether or not we have that yet!

The more I think about it, IMO, it seems like this autopsy report is a very preliminary one, that only includes very obvious visible factors such as obvious trumas and discolorations, etc. So I think there could very well be broken ribs as that may not be obvious until x-rays and organ dissection is done. And they have not, as far as I know, released that data yet...

So you may turn out to be right, and we may hear of broken ribs from his actions soon. Thank you for making me think on this.

 

[Beatrice]

I don't think he meant to murder either of the girls. Not because he has a conscious, but because murder is rather inconvenient, he's lousy at it, it can be messy, ...etc.... Women are objects as is everyone else around him. He uses people and when he's done or they have nothing left to give, he moves on. he even tossed his dad under the bus as soon as he died.

I think his father knew Jordan couldn't be trusted to keep his mouth shut and disposed of Natalee himself. Jordan has no idea where the remains are. His dad knew his own son was capable of blackmailing him, blaming him...etc..

I believe he's a psychopath with frontal lobe damage. He hasn't any executive functionality. None...zero.

Wow! Someone that shares my views! I agree with your post 1000%!
I do not believe a big mouth, immature Joran knows what happened to Natalee after the beach.

I had posted some info about frontal lobe damage. As I see Joran & his father share this physical deformity. Joran had a huge growth spurt at age 16Whether naturally or by drugs (steroids) In order to understand Joran, you must place yourself in the shoes of an addict and psychopath. JMO.

 

[suzihawk]

Catching up... again.

I'm trying to feel some empathy for Anita and the horrible situation she once again finds herself in due to her son. But I couldn't help but notice in her interview with 'De Telegraaf' that she again seems to place the blame on Natalee and the Holloway family for her son's troubles. It's ironic - and despicable, IMO -, that she's blaming Natalee (who found herself dead after being his company) and her family for her son killing Stephany in Peru.

"She indicated that she feared that the pressures created by being the prime suspect in the death of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway five years ago in Aruba may have caused her son to snap."

And this interview contradicts the (verified) e-mail that she sent to Melody saying she didn't believe he was a murderer and that he's been set-up (trapped). It leaves me :waitasec: and is just more of the same covering and posturing that's been going on for five + years.

 

[Carolina Girl]

The more I think about it, IMO, it seems like this autopsy report is a very preliminary one, that only includes very obvious visible factors such as obvious trumas and discolorations, etc. So I think there could very well be broken ribs as that may not be obvious until x-rays and organ dissection is done. And they have not, as far as I know, released that data yet...

So you may turn out to be right, and we may hear of broken ribs from his actions soon. Thank you for making me think on this.

Thank you. It looks to me that the line of bruising may be the ribs separated from the breast bone. I have been sick thinking of her fighting. But if this is so, she was also struggling for every breath she took.

Adding thanks to Kat for the info about the Texas case.

 

[Bobarino]

Yes he died:
"Male, 14, diagnosed with post traumatic stress and other disorders
Texas; public school
2002
•
230 lb. special education teacher placed 129 lb. student into a prone restraint and lay on top of him because he would not stay seated.
•
Student died as a result of compression of the trunk.
•
Death ruled a homicide, but no criminal charges filed.
•
Teacher currently teaches in Virginia and is licensed to instruct children with disabilities.

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d09719t.pdf

Given those weights and what he did, should have been charged with at least negligent homicide.

 

[krowdkat]

Do you recall if that student died?

Yes, Chase Moody (Texas, USA) died from his restraint.

http://www.statesman.com/specialreports/content/specialreports/restraint/archive/102302moody.html

 

[hollyblue]

This part of what he says though is troubling ~ is he inferring that Stephany's father's connections will pay to have Joran disposed of? If so, I disagree. MOO

""You know, that's a dangerous place. ... You've got murderers there, terrorists there - you've got bad people. And the problem he's facing is that the father of Stephany (Flores) ... is a prominent person. And this is an impoverished prison. And you pay off the right people, ya know, someone will stick a knife right in the guy."

Maybe this is why Anita is throwing the mental illness story out there now. Hoping to prevent someone doing in JVS. ??

 

[panthera]

I do too. Although I believe he is dedicated to ensure Joran will get what he deserves in Peru but does not include paid murder in prison. I also believe he wants to assist the Holloway family in finding out the truth about Natalee. The way he talked about Stephany being instrumental like almost a sacrifice in the Holloway case, makes me believe he is very determined getting the truth out of Joran by any kind of means.

That is the impression I got of Mr. Flores also, and a very kind man who not only wants justice for his daughter but has deep compassion for Natalee's family. I do not believe he would want Joran to die before the Holloway family at least has the opportunity to find out what happened to Natalee. MOO