Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #17

[21merc7]

I though Columbian Officials denied this days ago, but here we are again. Maybe this place is just late on getting news in the first place?

"What's more disturbing? The same Columbian women were, indeed seen with van der Sloot the day before they both vanished."

http://www.gambling911.com/poker/joran-van-der-sloot-may-be-responsible-two-more-murders-062010.html

 

[nervous_nellie]

so, i just heard on msnbc news commercial that anita vds is now saying that jvds went to peru to avoid being sent to a mental institution... anyone heard this? the only thing i have read is this article http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/joran-van-der-sloots-mother-son-stephany-flores/story?id=10961460 im gonna read it again, i dont think i saw that in there anywhere???

 

[nervous_nellie]

I though Columbian Officials denied this days ago, but here we are again. Maybe this place is just late on getting news in the first place?

"What's more disturbing? The same Columbian women were, indeed seen with van der Sloot the day before they both vanished."

http://www.gambling911.com/poker/joran-van-der-sloot-may-be-responsible-two-more-murders-062010.html

i dont have the links handy, but you are correct - no missing columbian women linked to jvds, he never left the airport in Bogotá.....

 

[Mrs G Norris]

i too agree that sanitary napkins prolly wouldnt have spun him into a murderous rage... i do wonder if he in his warped over-entitled and overly sensitive to rejection state of mind thought/felt that her telling him that she was a lesbian was just a way to reject him that he wouldnt have any say in the matter - her saying "no thanks, im gay" would have been the end of it, and he thought it was a lie, that she was just rejecting him... he may be one of those kind of guys that demand that all women succumb to his appeal, lol , but he is off the chart in the force used to "persuade" women in this charade. who knows...we may never truly "know" what happened. i still tend to believe this had more to do with him wanting to charm the money out of her purse and when she either caught him in the act of stealing or wasnt going along with the program he just got pizzed and went off - WAY off.

I'm thinking if its true that they went back to the room to play 'online poker' or 'divide up winnings from the casino' that he would have tried to take more of his fair share in the divide of any winnings and that would have been enough to start a row which could have quickly spiralled out of control. Although I think we'll know more once the computer forensics come back...

I honestly think that since Joran's the only person who knows the truth, that we'll never really know. For all we know he killed her because she ground her teeth or something equally menial. It may have been a murder without a motive that a normal person could even recognise.

 

[dolly1]

Please, I have asked this before... does anyone have links or proof that men routinely murder women because they are on their periods when they want to have sex with them? That when women are on their periods men cannot rape them and therefore go raging mad and kill them? That no women are raped when they are on their periods?

How can this be a basis for a theory? Do sanitary napkins really inspire so much outrage that a woman would be killed for it?? I do not think so. While I have heard of men who are considerate when women might not feel well on their periods, I have only heard once or twice where a man turned down sex because a woman was on her period. Mostly I've heard men like it because they think there's less chance of getting someone pregnant.

So, please, someone give me a link that shows that a rapist will respect a woman claiming to not feel well on her period, decline to rape her, but will murder her instead because he's so put out by it.

Have I missed something? Because I've read she was not sexually assaulted. I also do not get why her lesbianism would inspire murder.

Robbery? Yes, I get that.

I didn't get the connection with her being on her period either. Blood seemed to really bother Joran, he said he couldn't stay in the room with it. However, it was the blood he had spilled he was talking about. It could be the violence started from sexual rejection though, he'd been turned down a lot lately, he had complained about it to a friend. If he had, previously, slipped her a date-rape drug she would have been passive so I wonder about that theory. It's a guessing game until more evidence comes out.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

so, i just heard on msnbc news commercial that anita vds is now saying that jvds went to peru to avoid being sent to a mental institution... anyone heard this? the only thing i have read is this article http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/joran-van-der-sloots-mother-son-stephany-flores/story?id=10961460 im gonna read it again, i dont think i saw that in there anywhere???

here's the link to the dutch news story....

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2010/06/my_son_is_sick_in_his_head_say.php

 

[nervous_nellie]

here's the link to the dutch news story....

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2010/06/my_son_is_sick_in_his_head_say.php

thanx for the link! i havent hadnt had time to read all that i have missed on the threads :/ jvds may have sounded paranoid to her, but he WAS being watched and followed because he was extorting money from the holloways!! wonder what anita knew about that and WHEN she knew about it?? im not ready to blame all this on anita, but come on... kwim? i think when the bodies start to pile up its time to wake up. moo

 

[Mrs G Norris]

thanx for the link! i havent hadnt had time to read all that i have missed on the threads :/ jvds may have sounded paranoid to her, but he WAS being watched and followed because he was extorting money from the holloways!! wonder what anita knew about that and WHEN she knew about it?? im not ready to blame all this on anita, but come on... kwim? i think when the bodies start to pile up its time to wake up. moo

I really think Anita will see the whole truth here...in time, etc.

Anyway it sounds like Joran called her after the murder before he headed for Chile so I'm wondering if he told her what he'd done, but either way she must have known it was bad news. Also I kind of doubt she knew about the extortion, but SOMETHING, some event, must have made them all decide that he needed to be put into a mental institution!

There must have been some incident that was pretty dramatic in the last couple of months before he headed to Peru...Melody? John? Anyone ready to spill?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Actually ... it may have been the extortion attempt that provoked the attempted institutionalisation of Joran....That was an act of pure madness, and assuming the family still has ties to Aruban justice, they may have found out that it had been a 'sting'.

 

[nervous_nellie]

I really think Anita will see the whole truth here...in time, etc.

Anyway it sounds like Joran called her after the murder before he headed for Chile so I'm wondering if he told her what he'd done, but either way she must have known it was bad news. Also I kind of doubt she knew about the extortion, but SOMETHING, some event, must have made them all decide that he needed to be put into a mental institution!

There must have been some incident that was pretty dramatic in the last couple of months before he headed to Peru...Melody? John? Anyone ready to spill?

if i were her i think the events of the last five years and losing my husband i would feel like i was ready for the mental ward. sadly, from following the threads here it seems like this kind of thing is happening more and more.... but i think jvds needed mental/emotional intervention sooner than in february... i do wonder what was really going on, aside from the extortion. so, are you thinking that he was desperate to escape aruba to avoid the institution and thats why he extorted the money? not just because he wanted to participate in this poker tournament? hmmm....

 

[nervous_nellie]

ive had the idea that he wanted to participate in the poker tournament but didnt have the money so he cooked up the extortion plan, got the money and then started acting strangely around his mother who has been on the "look out" for this type of behavior from him and would readily believe it...and split to peru with her thinking its because he had went batty and not because he had just extorted a lot of money. and now in retrospect(in her mind) it all falls into place for anita... but in reality she was just played by jvds once again. and im sure any mother would rather her child be in the institution than in castro castro.... not sure what i think now???

 

[Patty G]

I wish to speak about Joran's mother. I believe she is burnt out. She tries to defend her son but knows he has mental issues and knows darn well he is violent and has murdered at least 3 people. He is her son the family nighmare. She said, "Perhaps it was time to let Joran go". That is someone who can't cope anymore. Her husband probably was the only one who could control him while she coped by staying in denial and stayed out of it. Joran should believe he killed his father, he was an officer of the court and the stress of knowing he helped cover up a murder probably did kill him.

BBM

Do you have a link to the 3rd person that Joran "allegedly" murdered?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

if i were her i think the events of the last five years and losing my husband i would feel like i was ready for the mental ward. sadly, from following the threads here it seems like this kind of thing is happening more and more.... but i think jvds needed mental/emotional intervention sooner than in february... i do wonder what was really going on, aside from the extortion. so, are you thinking that he was desperate to escape aruba to avoid the institution and thats why he extorted the money? not just because he wanted to participate in this poker tournament? hmmm....

No....I'm thinking he found out that he was in DEEP trouble due to the extortion and perhaps more sympathetic members of his family decided he
'needed psychiatric help' but Joran decided just to go ahead and get out of dodge.

 

[Patty G]

I though Columbian Officials denied this days ago, but here we are again. Maybe this place is just late on getting news in the first place?

"What's more disturbing? The same Columbian women were, indeed seen with van der Sloot the day before they both vanished."

http://www.gambling911.com/poker/joran-van-der-sloot-may-be-responsible-two-more-murders-062010.html

It was confirmed, "live" on air, during Issues last week when Jean C called a CNN affiliate in Columbia, who then contacted a Columbian official who confirmed that there were NO two women missing in Columbia.

Also, the photo that they were airing and in the newspapers with two girls on each side of Joran's face, one of them happened to be Melony. That picture aired during the 20/20 special Friday night.

ETA:
Straight out to Jean Casarez, correspondent for "In Session" who is live outside the hotel where Stephany died. And we`re covering breaking news that came in while we were on this show about two missing women allegedly in Colombia and a possible connection to Joran. But we have no independent confirmation.

Jean Casarez, what have you found out?

JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, what we`ve done, we have been able to contact correspondents for CNN in Colombia. And here is the e-mail we received back from them. They checked with authorities and say there is nothing to it. According Colombian police and Colombian attorney general`s office, there is no disappearance currently being investigated in Bogota or no investigation in Colombia in general in connection with Joran Van Der Sloot.

That`s what they are officially saying in Colombia. Of course when you say investigation, possibly just questioning is not tantamount to a full investigation at this point. But this is what information we`re getting from the law enforcement in Colombia tonight.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1006/08/ijvm.01.html

 

[suzihawk]

A voice of reason...go figure! The 'she wouldn't sleep with me so I had to kill her' theory is not backed up by any evidence, unlike the 'Joran was becoming increasingly desperate for money in the days leading up to the murder, and did actually relieve her of cash, cards and a vehicle' theory which is well documented.

I agree its important to stick to the facts and not speculate wildly. Its possible of course that he removed her clothes as part of his attempt at a cover up (which he abandoned half way through once he saw the camera outside his room), but that would be more speculation of course.

I have to stick up for Anita again too, she had had Joran in therapy throughout his teenage years, she was in the process of having him sent to some kind of hospital or rehab for more treatment when this happened, and I truly believe she was trying to address the 'Joran problem' as well as she could. As we are all aware psychopathy cannot be cured, in fact there is evidence that treatment makes them worse. So I really think we need to stop blaming Anita.

Also let's remember...she's not the one who gave him a line of credit at the casino in Aruba, she wasn't even on the island the night Natalee disappeared and she did not kill Stephany Flores. Also...her son is in Jail for murder in PERU, the world is out for his blood, the chances of him surviving his sentence are minimal, she just lost her husband to a heart attack a few short months ago, and therefore I think we should show her some compassion.

JMO

I couldn't agree more! The fact is we'll never know for certain why Joran did what he did and all this speculation does is fuel the already wild rumor mill. All the supposition about things like whether or not Stephany was gay or on her period and whether Joran suffered food allergies and the like being the reasoning for him commiting this crime just muddies the water, IMO.

As for Anita... while I have a certain amount of empathy and compassion for her and her situation, I have a problem with her making excuses and placing the blame on others for Joran's actions, including the American news media and most specifically Natalee and her family. While it may be true that Paulus was the primary enabler, she appears to have stood passively by while allowing it to continue. She seems rather weak willed and dominated by the 'men' of the family, IMO. She's a teacher and should have recognized the warning signs and insisted that he not be enabled and be held accountable for his actions. Failing that, she should have sought out and demanded professional care. We only have her word that he was on the brink of being sent for therapy at this point, which seems rather convenient timing, IMO.

That said, it's easy to play the woulda, shoulda, coulda game after the fact and who really knows how they might react if the the same position.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Here's the longer interview with Anita....still in denial about Natalee tho...

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/joran-...-son-stephany-flores/story?id=10961460&page=1

 

[catlover]

After your children reach a certain age,all any parent can do is try to advise,they don't have to listen.

 

[suzihawk]

Here's a longer interview with Anita....interesting, sounds like she's still in denial about Natalee tho...

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/joran-...-son-stephany-flores/story?id=10961460&page=1

Yup. Again, blaming others and setting the stage for an incompetence plea.


"She indicated that she feared that the pressures created by being the prime suspect in the death of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway five years ago in Aruba may have caused her son to snap."

"If only he had listened to his mother. Then this never would have happened. If he hadn't been so persecuted, maybe not either. It's: 'if, if if…' But if he killed Stephany, then he will have to carry the burden of that," she said. "I will not visit him in his cell, I cannot embrace him. But he should get a fair trial. He is psychologically disturbed. That has to count for something, right?"

"After he was arrested for Natalee's disappearance, he was traumatized," the paper quoted her as saying. "We made a big mistake then. We sent him to the Netherlands to study. He should have gone to a closed clinic, he needed psychological help even back then. He wasn't getting any rest, he was being persecuted."

"When he walked into the trap of Peter R. de Vries, things went downhill even more quickly," Anita van der Sloot said. "I have seen the rough tapes of the undercover action. His confession was also an impressive feat of editing. Joran was trying to impress. That was not OK.

"I am not giving interviews to any American media station because I don't trust them. Stay safe and pray for Joran. He is not the monster they like the world to see. he is traumatized, depressed an has an addiction. He is not a murderer. It stinks and feels like a big trap set up for him," the e-mail said.

 

[suzihawk]

After your children reach a certain age,all any parent can do is try to advise,they don't have to listen.

Yes... but way prior to that 'certain age' he should have been taught that there are consequences for his actions.

 

[nervous_nellie]

Yup. Again, blaming others and setting the stage for an incompetence plea.


"She indicated that she feared that the pressures created by being the prime suspect in the death of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway five years ago in Aruba may have caused her son to snap."

"If only he had listened to his mother. Then this never would have happened. If he hadn't been so persecuted, maybe not either. It's: 'if, if if…' But if he killed Stephany, then he will have to carry the burden of that," she said. "I will not visit him in his cell, I cannot embrace him. But he should get a fair trial. He is psychologically disturbed. That has to count for something, right?"

"After he was arrested for Natalee's disappearance, he was traumatized," the paper quoted her as saying. "We made a big mistake then. We sent him to the Netherlands to study. He should have gone to a closed clinic, he needed psychological help even back then. He wasn't getting any rest, he was being persecuted."

"When he walked into the trap of Peter R. de Vries, things went downhill even more quickly," Anita van der Sloot said. "I have seen the rough tapes of the undercover action. His confession was also an impressive feat of editing. Joran was trying to impress. That was not OK.

"I am not giving interviews to any American media station because I don't trust them. Stay safe and pray for Joran. He is not the monster they like the world to see. he is traumatized, depressed an has an addiction. He is not a murderer. It stinks and feels like a big trap set up for him," the e-mail said.

i agree... and if this had all just suddenly happened i could understand the denial - but she has had FIVE YEARS to process what is going on with this... and now here we go again with a new victim. i get the feeling that her refusal to accept that jvds is a murderer has to do with how she views herself than it does with protecting jvds. she hasnt really protected him - she has enabled him and now that he didnt just get better all on his own she is cutting him loose... yeah, pray for him... we see how much praying for him has done. she needed to ACT on his problems not pray about them. but then that would require effort on her part... so she says she has to "save" herself....i think thats what she has been doing all along. moo