Ping Map for June 27, 2008 - Discuss that day only

[JWG]

Does a direct route traveling east from Tony's apt via University Blvd fit the pings equally?

Perhaps...however, this would place the tower 56 ping on the wrong side.

I just put up a post here describing my understanding of cell tower orientation. The last digit of the CID for the ping in question is "5". Thus, I would expect the location of the cell phone to be in the south sector of the tower.

I don't think university runs close enough to the tower that one could ping underneath to the opposite side. The tower is 155 feet tall, while university at its closest is 920 feet.

 

[Jaylergirl]

Perhaps...however, this would place the tower 56 ping on the wrong side.

I just put up a post here describing my understanding of cell tower orientation. The last digit of the CID for the ping in question is "5". Thus, I would expect the location of the cell phone to be in the south sector of the tower.

I don't think university runs close enough to the tower that one could ping underneath to the opposite side. The tower is 155 feet tall, while university at its closest is 920 feet.

From doing the pings myself, it appears as if KC is still at TL at 8:32 pm and finally heading out just after this time to Fusion. It appears to me as if they head East straight down University Blvd. to Alafaya Trl. then turning right onto Alafaya and taking it straight up to Woodbury Rd (Fusion).

I live very close to Fusion, Target, Alafaya, etc. Have driven these areas in my 21 years of actual driving and that is the exact route that I would take if I were living were TL was/is living to get to Fusion. Straight shot, lots of red lights along the way but I don't think (IMO) anything looks out of the ordinary with the drive to Fusion.

 

[cocoamom]

Bumping this thread, some very interesting posts when read now after the discovery of remains yesterday!

 

[JWG]

Yes. Rereading some of my mis-guided comments

Rummaging around takes some amount of time. The call to JC Penney pings a tower north of the Anthony's consistent with many call made from the residence, so she is probably still at the home at 11:10. This leaves just 15 minutes to discard Caylee's body, if that is in fact what happened then.

And now it all comes together. Given where Caylee was found, it was more than enough time. Her text to Amy about the dead squirrel now makes "Casey-sense". She could not tell Amy exactly what she did, but she can't keep her mouth shut and had to tell someone that she solved her little problem for good.

 

[Whyamisointerested]

WOW JWG-I'm so impressed you were right on. 15 minutes thats all it took......

 

[JWG]

Here is basically where searchers found the body.

 

[passionflower]

The area at the end of Suburban Dr. by the school has been searched 5 times that I know of. 3 times with dogs.

The area by Lee's house was searched at least twice and most of that is underwater.

I was personally there and part of the search.

looking back in time NOW this all makes sense! CAYLEE was riight there!
Just between Lee and parents house!!!! Imagine how many times she went back to look to make sure bag was still there...............OMG..........

 

[LaLaw2000]

JBean was right! You guys are brilliant!

:clap::clap::clap:

 

[ShadowGal]

Nice job Eliza.

Respectfully snipped..bold by me

...Rummaging around takes some amount of time. The call to JC Penney pings a tower north of the Anthony's consistent with many call made from the residence, so she is probably still at the home at 11:10. This leaves just 15 minutes to discard Caylee's body, if that is in fact what happened then.

The text to AH suggests that may have in fact happened. If so, she could not have travelled very far from her parent's home, and the body would probably not be far from a road nor would it be buried. There was not a lot of time to do any hiking or digging.

It is possible, too, that the body was discarded in a nearby dumpster during this time. I do not believe the dumpster would be at the Amscot, because she texted AH prior to running out of gas and referred to the 'dead animal' being plastered to her car in the past tense.

Thus, if Casey discarded Caylee's body on the 27th, I believe it had to occur in that small window of time. This should mean a relatively small search area near the Anthony's and the body would not be particularly well hidden...unless she used a dumpster. The body would also be wrapped in something, because the trunk was pretty clean and Casey was too when AL picked her up.

I remember reading this the first time around and after hearing the area had been searched several times, being frustrated....but now, after the fact, it's just chilling.

Great work JWG. And thx for the bump cocoamom, this needs to be seen again!

 

[JustJax]

Nice job Eliza.

My question is whether or not it is plausible Casey discarded Caylee's body on this day. Here are my thoughts:

At approximately 11:45 she runs out of gas and pushes the car into the Amscot lot. Amscot is 15 to 20 minutes from her parents, depending on traffic / lights / etc. Cell activity supports her leaving the area around 11:25.

Question is, did she leave from her parent's house or somewhere close by at 11:25?

Note that ping 6 hits on a tower near the Carter Glenn Condos, followed by a hit on the cell tower near the junkyard. The junkyard cell tower is pinged frequently from the Anthony's home, but the Carter Glenn Condo tower was rarely pinged from there during the latter half of June (the pings are more frequent there during the first half of June, and they are bounded by pings at the other two cell towers near the parent's).

My guess is that she probably did leave her parent's home at ~11:25, although it is possible she was nearby in an area south-southwest of her parent's.

Now, when did she arrive at her parent's? With respect to ping 3, she is at most 10 minutes from her parents driving south from Tony's, so we can assume she arrives around 10:45. Therefore, she is at her parent's and/or in the vicinity for about 40 minutes.

She spends at least some time rummaging around her parent's, because she grabs some food (AL notes in his interview that Casey has it with her at Amscot, and there really is no time for her to make a grocery stop anywhere). She may have also rummaged through their mail, found the JC Penney card, and called to activate it.

Rummaging around takes some amount of time. The call to JC Penney pings a tower north of the Anthony's consistent with many call made from the residence, so she is probably still at the home at 11:10. This leaves just 15 minutes to discard Caylee's body, if that is in fact what happened then.

The text to AH suggests that may have in fact happened. If so, she could not have travelled very far from her parent's home, and the body would probably not be far from a road nor would it be buried. There was not a lot of time to do any hiking or digging.

It is possible, too, that the body was discarded in a nearby dumpster during this time. I do not believe the dumpster would be at the Amscot, because she texted AH prior to running out of gas and referred to the 'dead animal' being plastered to her car in the past tense.

Thus, if Casey discarded Caylee's body on the 27th, I believe it had to occur in that small window of time. This should mean a relatively small search area near the Anthony's and the body would not be particularly well hidden...unless she used a dumpster. The body would also be wrapped in something, because the trunk was pretty clean and Casey was too when AL picked her up.

You all did such a great job on this thread! And I am so glad the dumpster aspect did not factor in. Thank God Caylee Marie can now get a proper burial.

 

[JWG]

My look into this could have been more thorough. I am kicking myself for not looking more broadly at the aerial photos of the area after reading Kiomarie's interview. I had the impression from what I read that the wooded area she and Casey visited was the one on the east side of the school, as circled by Marsha in her earlier images. Why? Kio said they had found "this hiding spot behind Hidden Oaks." "Behind" looked to me like the eastern side.

However, Kio mentioned that there were no fences there. Looking, I could not find a fence. I chalked that up to the images being old.

Here is an aerial showing where I thought Kio was describing (red line) and where little Caylee was eventually found (arrow). Because so little time was involved on the 27th between the JCP call and running out of gas, I did not think that she could have gone far off the road's edge. The aerial is from the Orange County Property Appraiser's website and shows the recent development not seen on the Google images, which are from April 2006.

As it turns out, the spot was not behind but just before the school grounds. And in this bird's eye view from live.maps looking south from the school, a fence clearly is visible (far right). That fence follows the property line outline in the above image.

Kio mentions that there was a dirt hill they could go back on using bicycles, but that is now blocked by the fence. The area Caylee was found looks low-lying based on the videos I have seen.

 

[Katana]

The theories posted months ago about this day are very impressive. Now that Caylee has been found it seems very plausible that June 27th is the day that KC put Caylee in the woods.

Here’s my two cents based on the previous analysis of KC‘s cell phone pings and my own intuition into KC’s mind.

KC’s first thought this day is “it’s Friday and party time.” I think all her efforts this day are planning for the weekend. The problem is she has a body in the car and the car smells. She can’t keep everyone away from her car like she did during the week when everyone was busy and working. KC’s has a to do list this day that includes getting Caylee out of her car. The main goal is to party so not a lot of thought goes into covering up a crime.

Ping 2: She heads to her parents home from Tony’s at 10:22 am.

Ping 3: Still driving, 10:35am.

Ping 4: She arrives at her parents’ house by 11:09 am. Steals the JCP CC and calls JCP to verify account. (She needed something new to wear out partying. Stealing the CC was the point of going to A’s.)

Ping 5: Still at parents’ house, 11:26am. (She gets hung up at the house for a few more minutes with calls and texts to/from Tony and shot girl Jenna.)

Ping 6: 11:28am - After leaving the house, she travels near Johnson’s Tow. She is scouting the area for a place to dump Caylee. (I don’t think she never planned on a place to leave her prior to this. She just happens to be in a very familiar area that conveniently has some woods and it’s good timing!)

Ping 7: 11:31am - 11:33am, She travels back up past the A’s home and found a simple, familiar spot off Suburban. She leaves Caylee’s body here sometime between Ping 6 (11:28am) and Ping 8 (11:34am).

--KC’s to do list: Steal credit card (check), set-up shot girl (partly done, still texting Jenna), get rid of body (check)

Ping 8: 11:34am, KC texts Amy “There was definitely part of a dead animal plastered to the frame of my car.” --KC’s message to Amy meant mission just accomplished. KC is still texting Jenna. She may have even text Jenna immediately before and after disposing of the body.

--Next thing on KC’s to do list --Get rid of smell in car…

Ping 9, 10, and so on - KC abandons her car at Amscot. Abandoning the car may have been part of her plan all along this day after dumping the body or she just realized the smell wasn’t quickly going away so she needed an excuse to keep it away from friends over the weekend. She appears to be driving aimlessly around between Pings 10, 11, and 12. She may have been airing out the car and accidentally ran out of gas or she may have been driving around purposely until she ran out of gas. (Whatever her reasoning, I think she planned to retrieve the car after the weekend assuming the car would still be there and the smell would be gone.)

 

[BondJamesBond]

Holding out hope that the bags of clothes I'm speculating were discarded 6/27AM were, indeed, among the items associated w/ the find on Sunderson Dr. ~11/10.

More information on that find and this speculation located @ http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74772&highlight=animal&page=3 Post #66 is a good place to start w/ Post #72 providing a summary.

 

[shadow of my mind]

Holding out hope that the bags of clothes I'm speculating were discarded 6/27AM were, indeed, among the items associated w/ the find on Sunderson Dr. ~11/10.

More information on that find and this speculation located @ http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74772&highlight=animal&page=3 Post #66 is a good place to start w/ Post #72 providing a summary.

You read my mind. I just posted about this on
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73752&page=11
but for the life of me could not remember the name of the road. My exact same thought. Going to re-read and see if anything stands out with the additional information that we have.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Armed with a little more information than we had a few months ago I've updated my position on Casey intentionally abandoning the Pontiac @ Amscot. IMHO, she really did run outta gas 6/27. Explained here.

 

[ZubenElSchemali]

I agree she likely ran out of gas that day. But I don't agree that she ran out of gas on the 23rd. The text messages support 2 Friday's in a row, the 20th and the 27th. Also, I will have to gather more information before I will believe anything TL says after listening to his bugged conversation with Lee. He claims Casey never stayed over night until the 27th. So, either he is lying or Casey slept somewhere else.

Now, the Hess gas receipt was dated June 17, 6:31 pm (docs p2371) and that receipt was given to LE by Tony. (must find that receipt again to see how much gas was bought and if it makes sense to run out in 3 days according to the pings) He had said the first time she ran out of gas was midday and the text messages to him on the 20th support this better than the texts on the 23rd. Also, isn't the 23rd the day George found the gas cans stolen? It had to have happened before then. The 20th it is.

So, where was Casey sleeping from June 16 through the 26th? Is Tony lying and if so why? The gas day could be a simple error but not a week and a half of nights.

 

[travelgal]

Armed with a little more information than we had a few months ago I've updated my position on Casey intentionally abandoning the Pontiac @ Amscot. IMHO, she really did run outta gas 6/27. Explained here.

Outstanding, BondJamesBond. :clap: Makes perfect sense to me. Thanks for laying it out so clearly! :blowkiss:

 

[BondJamesBond]

I agree she likely ran out of gas that day. But I don't agree that she ran out of gas on the 23rd. The text messages support 2 Friday's in a row, the 20th and the 27th. Also, I will have to gather more information before I will believe anything TL says after listening to his bugged conversation with Lee. He claims Casey never stayed over night until the 27th. So, either he is lying or Casey slept somewhere else.

Now, the Hess gas receipt was dated June 17, 6:31 pm (docs p2371) and that receipt was given to LE by Tony. (must find that receipt again to see how much gas was bought and if it makes sense to run out in 3 days according to the pings) He had said the first time she ran out of gas was midday and the text messages to him on the 20th support this better than the texts on the 23rd. Also, isn't the 23rd the day George found the gas cans stolen? It had to have happened before then. The 20th it is.

So, where was Casey sleeping from June 16 through the 26th? Is Tony lying and if so why? The gas day could be a simple error but not a week and a half of nights.

FWIW, the detailed analysis on the 23rd can be found here in posts #28 & 30, IIRC.

FWIW, George reported the gas cans stolen on the morning of 6/24.

Looking forward to your analysis on the 20th. IIRC, we spent a little time on it on the ping thread for that day early on. Perhaps there will be something of value for you on that thread.

 

[ZubenElSchemali]

Yes, I read that. You did a wonderful job on the map, by the way. P. 2831 the detective refers to Tony saying she could have run out of gas the week of the 16th and that the hot body contest was the 20th. I'm not quite sure why the detectives went for the following Monday instead of looking at the two Fridays. If she filled up on the 17th at Hess she wouldn't likely have burned it until the 20th or so. Now saying mid day usually means around Noon and the call to him on the 20th fits. The 23th is mid afternoon. If he never got out of bed until noon, I'd think different in his case but he obviously had a normal schedule with school and all, other than on weekends.

And, this still doesn't address whether he was lying and she wasn't even staying there before this key date. If he was lying about that there could be other things.

PS, you are right, the call was on the morning of the 24th to report the cans stolen Richard Cain took the report. Busy fella.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Per TL KC stayed the night for the first time June 13 and after that every now and then. It was when he got back from NY (7/5) that she was there every night. Also he said KC was at his place the nights that led up to (6/26-29) his departure to NY on 6/30.

I wrote down the above dates because I know I read them in the docs. It doesn't mean she wasn't there every other night not mentioned, only that he didn't recall the other dates KC stayed at his place after 6/13.