POI: Michael Pak

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Is the following scenario within the realm of possibility? MP drives away from encounter with GC. He phones SG and says to her, "Shannan, I gotta beat feet, like now! The cops are coming! Cut across the swamp and I'll pick you up on the other side."
Not saying that happened. Just thinking if possibilities exist that would not defy the theory of relativity.

I do not recall an info about SG's phone calls after the 911 call.



DATE TIME PHONE # DESTINATION MINUTES USED OWNER

05/01/10 4:51 AM 911-000-0000 Emergency, 23

05/01/10 4:09 AM NEW YORK,NY 1 Michael Pak

05/01/10 3:15 AM NEW YORK,NY 2 Michael Pak

05/01/10 3:13 AM Incoming, 1 Michael Pak

05/01/10 3:04 AM NEW YORK,NY 6 Michael Pak

05/01/10 3:00 AM Incoming, 3 Michael Pak

05/01/10 2:57 AM NEW YORK,NY 3 Michael Pak

05/01/10 2:55 AM BABYLON,NY 1 Oak Beach CVS

(460 MONTAUK HIGHWAY WEST ISLIP, NY11795)

05/01/10 12:25 AM NEW YORK,NY 1 Michael Pak

05/01/10 12:23 AM NEW YORK,NY 2 Michael Pak

05/01/10 12:20 AM NEW YORK,NY 3 Michael Pak

04/30/10 10:02 PM NEW YORK,NY 2 Michael Pak
 
Okay,

I am really confused now. I am told.....

MP could not have abducted SG, as he did not have a motive (SG was worth more alive than dead) and MP did not have the time.

So the idea is to look back at the JB, the drifter, and anybody else in the house.

So I ask
What was their motives? What opportunity would the men in the JB's house have with MP sitting out front of the JB's house? Since they invited MP into the house they had nothing to hide (unless MP was involved in some way)

Once SG left JB's house these men lost control of her, why would they let her leave if they wanted to do her harm?

As weak as some say MP is a POI, I cannot see JB and his housemates as prime suspects.

BTW Peter you speak of nobody seeing MP's vehicle ( black in color at night), remember that nobody saw or heard SG, after BB's call, either on the streets or in the marsh. Could they have disappeared together?

MOO
 
Hi Peter, We also have Pak telling GC he was at a party earlier with the gal he was looking for. I can't remember his exact words but didn't he imply or say it was at a neighbor's house? I'll go try and find that quote from GC.

If he had killed her I doubt he would mention that to anyone, right?

Right, for everyone. But then, Vivalor and I were talking about JB, you talk obviously about MP. And yes, I remember, MP told GC, the girl (SG) ran from a party. I guess, he didn't want to mention, that she was a prostitute and he her driver. You know, that's illegal.
And when it comes to MP, my problem with MP is not what he said or not said, my problem is, that he physically had no opportunity to kill SG. So what's the point? That MP is a criminal and a lair? I thought, that is obvious. But the nice part about liars is, they have reasons to lie and it is often all too easy to figure out why they lie about a certain detail.
 
Ah huhh!! Makes a lot of sense actually. There are plenty of men who like Voyeurism, one thing I have been learning fast with this is that there are tons and tons of fetishes (creepy ones for that matter).

Voyeurism is pretty common and in fact mostly on the harmless end of that spectrum.

I still think he had someone over. Just cause MP didn't see anyone does not mean that this drifter or who ever could of been in a different room by then or up stars. From what I understand MP wasn't in the house all that long. So in all reality MP could be telling the truth about this. The question would be why would this man not want to be seen or named?

When MP and SG arrived, JB, according to MP's testimony came out. Which is the same JB told. So MP came into the house the time, when he performed his little movie quiz on SG and, as it appears a second time, when JB allegedly wanted to get her out of the house. Which ended up with SG running out. So, one of the voices in the background on the tape could be MP? Another one JB. That makes two. Two can be already interpreted as several. So can three. Which poses the question, did MP actually saw only JB or didn't he mention another man for a reason? Or, as you implicate, did another man hide?

From what I have read the neighbors said they seen JB and another man out a few days after moving things into a u haul. Who was that guy and what were they moving at night? His stuff out of the house? Just a thought.

JB just said, it was a "friend". I don'T think, we got here ever an ID on that friend.

I have to admit that the more I read I just can't find a reason for MP joining in and killing SG or being part of a killing team. Unless if he is the driver for them but I doubt that.

MP has a history of prostitution related priors. To me, the thing with the passport seems to indicate, he tried at least at a time, to become a pimp on his own. However, since this didn't work out he became a driver. Essentially, this guy was making his life off of those girls since years, they were investment and income source for him. Which not only takes motive to kill one of them from him, it gives him also motive to keep them alive. Unfortunately, that motive wouldn't force him to stay when police was coming in or made him any brighter, which would have been helpful that night as well, because, we talked a lot that he had no chance to find her and snatch and kill her. But probabilities are, if he would have found her, she would be still alive.

What if this unknown man said to SG they were going to kill her or something and got off on the fear, maybe tried to choke her a little. And maybe JB didn't hear this so thought she was just crazy. Or he was in on it but things went wrong and she made a 911 call and he switched it to she is just acting crazy.

What if, that man or JB said something to her, not knowing, she was anyway about to develop paranoia from a combination og drugs and precondition? Her behavior at GC's place was erratic as well as each and every of the decisions, that formed her way through OB into the marsh. Since JB wasn't interviewed that night, we don't know how stoned he was at the time. But if there were drugs involved, it had to be JB's stash, the drifter's stash or drugs, they bought during that 15-minute trip. But SG had no reason to bring her own supplies. Which consequently means, whatever she took that night wasn't her stuff, not what she was used to. Which then gives an explanation why she ended up with some bad trip.

I've often wondered if well she was at JB house these men really were tormenting her. Saying they were going to kill her and messing with her. Telling her not to bother calling MP like she did because he was in on it also. After all she was just a hooker to these guys they would have no respect for her. Could explain why she ran from MP. Once she took off who's to say this other guy didn't go out creeping around looking for her.
It all sounds crazy to me. But fact is stranger then fiction. And I truly feel she was murdered. That is something I kind of can't over look. I can maybe start to see how MP might not be involved with the murder but that is about it.

Someone says something to someone under the influence of a drug mix ... what makes you think, this person actually gets the same words as they were said. I mentioned it on another thread, I think, but I remember a thing about a girl I once had to talk from a roof. She had taken something and thought, she was a helicopter and about to crash. Obviously triggered was that by a combination of drugs and Pink Floyd's the Wall. So, what this story taught me is, such a trigger for a person under drugs doesn't need to be too explicit. And it doesn't take much. So the question is, was there actually that much tormenting needed?
Another aspect to think about: There is no evidence for murder, there is nobody around who had a motive (including the usual psychopathic serial killer motives). At least not as far as I can see. But here is the rub: Since it was probably JB's stash that came on the table that night, he would be maybe guilty of negligent homicide. However, this drooling "lynch CPH" campaign first, now followed by the next campaign "lynch MP" have successfully buried all chances to investigate that aspect and make it stick.

And just another random thought is I do think the SK is a stalker. I think he gets off on watching his girls before getting them. There have been many of things that just scream stalker to me. Wouldn't voyeurism go hand and hand with someone who liked to stalk? Wasn't MB boyfriend called by the SK and told something along the lines..You like to do some pretty sick stuff with her...kinda like he was watching them like voyeurism?

I think, LISK is a stalker, and yes, like some forms of voyeurism, that is an expression of power and control. But please notice "some forms". Basically voyeurism is pretty common in men. A whole internet *advertiser censored* industry lives from that fact. A little trivia about that: Do you know women have a better sense of smelling than men and a better recognition of colors? While men detect motions much faster and have a slightly wider angle of vision? Actually, those differences were found on an anatomical level by scientists, so it's not, what our brains are trained to recognize, it's actual physiological difference. Which makes men very "visual" creatures. So in fact, there is a reason why men have a tendency to watch and in most cases it is hapless (well till the gf/wife gets upset about him watching other girls, and I don't even talk *advertiser censored* here).
Bottom line: Voyeurism is too common to say, you have a voyeur here, so he must be the person ... because you will find at least five more persons with a taste in watching in the next five houses down the road.
 
Is the following scenario within the realm of possibility? MP drives away from encounter with GC. He phones SG and says to her, "Shannan, I gotta beat feet, like now! The cops are coming! Cut across the swamp and I'll pick you up on the other side."
Not saying that happened. Just thinking if possibilities exist that would not defy the theory of relativity.

Wouldn't that show on the phone records? But then, who knows how many cell phones those people have today. And given, that neither SG nor MP were too familiar with the area, they may wouldn't have expected this to be such a mess of brambles and underbrush and swamp. So it's at least neither from they physical side nor from the behavioral side impossible.
 
Okay,

I am really confused now. I am told.....

MP could not have abducted SG, as he did not have a motive (SG was worth more alive than dead) and MP did not have the time.

So the idea is to look back at the JB, the drifter, and anybody else in the house.

So I ask
What was their motives? What opportunity would the men in the JB's house have with MP sitting out front of the JB's house? Since they invited MP into the house they had nothing to hide (unless MP was involved in some way)

Once SG left JB's house these men lost control of her, why would they let her leave if they wanted to do her harm?

As weak as some say MP is a POI, I cannot see JB and his housemates as prime suspects.

BTW Peter you speak of nobody seeing MP's vehicle ( black in color at night), remember that nobody saw or heard SG, after BB's call, either on the streets or in the marsh. Could they have disappeared together?

MOO

You didn't read the posts, you read only the names. The discussion is about what those many may have said that triggered SG's paranoid outbreak.

And on the other subject: There is a mass and size difference between SG and an SUV. And it wasn't night anymore. As pointed out almost two years ago: Sunrise in New York was 5:28 with twilight beginning about 5:10. I think, a black SUV in the light of an early morning is quite visible.
 
Would a call be registered is the called phone is off or out of power? Because we know MP went back with AK a few days later, not sure when exactly.

It's a good question. I don't know. Also, if SG is on the phone w/911 and she gets an "incoming" (call waiting?) from MP, how does the phone records reflect that?
Now that we are thinking about it, wouldn't it be extremely suspicious that MP NEVER called her again? Do "missed calls" show up somewhere?
 
It's a good question. I don't know. Also, if SG is on the phone w/911 and she gets an "incoming" (call waiting?) from MP, how does the phone records reflect that?
Now that we are thinking about it, wouldn't it be extremely suspicious that MP NEVER called her again? Do "missed calls" show up somewhere?

I avoid cell phones where I can. All the time microwave radiating into the human brain doesn't appear too healthy to me. So, anyone with more expertise in cell phones ready to jump in?
Because what you say, Gerontion, makes sense. This is a break in expected behavioral pattern and in my experience, those have always a reason. Or did AK try to call her and kept MP in the loop? They went back together and had as well contact with MG, right?
 
Is the following scenario within the realm of possibility? MP drives away from encounter with GC. He phones SG and says to her, "Shannan, I gotta beat feet, like now! The cops are coming! Cut across the swamp and I'll pick you up on the other side."
Not saying that happened. Just thinking if possibilities exist that would not defy the theory of relativity.

I've had the same thought but I don't think that was possible because SG phone records don't state that they talked after that.
 
It's a good question. I don't know. Also, if SG is on the phone w/911 and she gets an "incoming" (call waiting?) from MP, how does the phone records reflect that?
Now that we are thinking about it, wouldn't it be extremely suspicious that MP NEVER called her again? Do "missed calls" show up somewhere?

That is a very good question. My guess is that yes they can track them. I have had phone records before that show incoming and out calls. Along with missed calls.
 
That is a very good question. My guess is that yes they can track them. I have had phone records before that show incoming and out calls. Along with missed calls.

Okay, so it is a break in expected behavioral pattern. Even if his interest in SG was more financial, he would have tried to call her if he expected her to be hiding somewhere, unless ...

- he tried, but on another way or another cell phone (which would explain why he was suddenly in contact with MG and AK

- he expected her to be save and just needing a few days of cooling down.

- he expected, there was no sense in calling her because he supected her to be either dead or in a place he couldn't reach her. Which would mean, he saw or realized something he never spoke about or he bought the first version of CPH's story.

While that doesn't mean involvement in a murder, the third one is the interesting part, I think.
 
Not only do the "phone records" indicate that MP didn't have the common courtesy to check in with the fleeing/missing Shannan, but they also indicate that neither did her mother or boy friend. Wouldn't this tend to make the "phone records" suspect?
 
I'm surprised no one has asked that question before. THAT IS THE QUESTION OF THE YEAR. Why did the calls stop after the 911 call?
I’m gonna throw out some scenarios, feel free to shoot em on down so we can narrow it down to plausible:

1. Possible calls made to SG while she was on the phone with 911 do not register.
2. MP called her on a "burn/work" phone, if she had one to begin with.
3. MP hightailed it out of dodge and never called her back for whatever reason.
4. He found her, thus no need to make a call.
5. LE and MG have only released a partial transcript of the records.
6. Phone company does not track missed (unanswered) calls. Did she have Voicemail?
7. Power turned off to the phone.

That’s all my schedule can allow for now....feel free to elaborate.
 
Not only do the "phone records" indicate that MP didn't have the common courtesy to check in with the fleeing/missing Shannan, but they also indicate that neither did her mother or boy friend. Wouldn't this tend to make the "phone records" suspect?

Well, it doesn't seem, MG had too much contact before SG died. Lets face it, if MG would have put that much effort in SG before the girl died, things would may have come different. So chances are, MG was only aware of her daughter missing after SK called her, who must have realized, SG didn't come home and got also a call from MP, I assume. Because somehow, they had to come together. So in the center of the telephone chain, I see AK because he would be the connection between MP and MG.
 
I'm surprised no one has asked that question before. THAT IS THE QUESTION OF THE YEAR. Why did the calls stop after the 911 call?
I’m gonna throw out some scenarios, feel free to shoot em on down so we can narrow it down to plausible:

1. Possible calls made to SG while she was on the phone with 911 do not register.
2. MP called her on a "burn/work" phone, if she had one to begin with.
3. MP hightailed it out of dodge and never called her back for whatever reason.
4. He found her, thus no need to make a call.
5. LE and MG have only released a partial transcript of the records.
6. Phone company does not track missed (unanswered) calls. Did she have Voicemail?
7. Power turned off to the phone.

That’s all my schedule can allow for now....feel free to elaborate.

Often, wroking girls have two phones, one for business, one private. So if any calls from MG and maybe AK came in, they would on the other phone, the private one?
MP on the other hand was business. So he hightailed out of OB, laid low and maybe let AK do the calls? I still can't come over the thing that AK and MP showed up together at OB later.
 
Sorry, I can't remember. Was a cell-phone among the items of SG discovered in the marsh (skinny jeans, pocketbook, lipstick, etc)? And if so, is it the very one that the "phone records" relate to?
 
And also, as a matter of protocal, wouldn't 911 have called her back after she ended the call? Did they at least have the phone # she was calling from? The "phone records" don't indicate that they did call her back.
 
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