Pope's speech ignites worldwide controversy/ Islam insulted

[BillyGoatGruff]

A stupid over-reaction on the part of these Moslems. I don't think they even listened to what the Pope was saying, and I actually do believe that going back into the 6th Century Moslems liveds and conquered by the sword.

Hey, I'm not too proud of the Scandanavian Vikings pillaging and plundering in their early days of exploration, but I accept the fact that is what my ancestors did. If Moslems were out to rather conquer lands than pillage and plunder, and they did it by the sword, why don't their people now accept that?

I'll tell you why: The Scandanavians stopped their barbarian activities as they became civilized. The Moslems never did obviously. They have factions alive today that live and want to rule by the sword. They never really became civilized. Yes, they could figure out how to create phenominal architectural feats, but never really became civilized. Even to this day they live at some of the lowest standards there are on earth.



Scandi

The vikings didn't pillage out of religious zeal, either. It was entirely driven by being locked into a rather inhospitable physical enviroment a good portion of the year that made going out and getting fresher provisions extremely attractive. Not to mention all the gold and nice nick-nacks and wives they could carry.

 

[angelwngs]

The vikings didn't pillage out of religious zeal, either. It was entirely driven by being locked into a rather inhospitable physical enviroment a good portion of the year that made going out and getting fresher provisions extremely attractive. Not to mention all the gold and nice nick-nacks and wives they could carry.

Yep, my family genealogical connection to the Vikings made researching my family history sort of yucky........Especially since I had already found a branch much closer to my own that included a handful of murders, bootleggers and one distant female cousin who was arrested for dancing nekkid in the street while drunk. True History is rarely very pretty!

 

[southcitymom]

I have to agree with posters who have questioned what the Pope was trying to accomplish from his position of enormous political and spiritual power. How the call from this position can be anything but a call for peace and understanding, I do not know.

In the hands of humans, Christianity and Islam have a history steeped in blood and violence. But both traditions have much to learn from each other as we struggle together towards truth and, ultimately, brotherly love and peace.

Even with its erudite theologic language, this speech's skeleton reads: "What we think is right (reasonable) and what you think is wrong (irrational)!" This type of message is first seen in humans around the age of kindergarten. But it won't win you any friends on the playground and it won't win you any friends around the world.

One poster mentioned that what the Pope said is complicated. I don't buy that, but if that's the case, I would posit the argument that the Pope has a responsibility not to further complicate a terrible situation. I would go so far as to say he is called upon to build bridges of peace at ever corner.

The truth does not obfuscate and neither should the Pope.

I am an optimist at heart, though, so perhaps this will open up a dialogue that could eventually bear fruit.

Let there be peace on Earth.

 

[Dark Knight]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14848884/I don't know how well Christians would respond to an equivalent statement about Jesus, perhaps from the Jews? Or from the Muslims? Or Hindus? From a prominient spiritual leader that really does lead a huge number of religious people - and not some extremist, but someone fairly mainstream. I think if this was said, Christians would be protesting and demanding an apology. Yeah - the Pope didn't say he agreed with what he quoted, but neither did he say he disagreed at all - which leaves the Muslims with only the fact that out of the centuries, he chose that quote to bring forward - I know how I'd interpret something like that myself!

And - I'm not seeing much in the line of violent protests here - strange considering the bit with the comic was such a big deal - but I think they learned something there.

They burned some Christian churches, even non Catholic ones, in response.

 

[capps]

Quote by angelwngs:
" ...and one distant female cousin who was arrested for dancing nekkid in the street while drunk."

Well,all I can say to that is: Girls Just Wanna Have Fun (sung to the tune of Cindi Lauper's song).

 

[Details]

They burned some Christian churches, even non Catholic ones, in response.

I've heard about one - but that's why I've said it was not much - given worldwide coverage, many, many muslims in the world, many, many catholics and christians in the world - to have just that little bit of violent protest is a vast improvement - and every religion has their hotheads and idiots who use any excuse to go nuts.

 

[BarnGoddess]

They are not exactly helping to prove him wrong when they respond with violence, as they have in a few instances already.

I'd rather quote DK:

Italian nun murdered............

But I will add yours:

Details

I've heard about one - but that's why I've said it was not much - given worldwide coverage, many, many muslims in the world, many, many catholics and christians in the world - to have just that little bit of violent protest is a vast improvement - and every religion has their hotheads and idiots who use any excuse to go nuts.

I heard on Fox and both MSNBC this morning that several churches in Jerusalem were attacked and burned.

IMHO, the pope must have spoken the truth. He quoted a 14th century text. It was explained that this was general dinner table conversation in the 1300's just as we talk amongst ourselves today. He has absolutely no reason to apologize for his quotes that I do for this post.

I would believe that his lack of a full apology is appropriate. I think that in relation to the violent reaction to his words certainly prove out this ancient text quoted. It was totally uncalled for by the Muslims murdering a nun and burning churches.

No, I am not Catholic........and the reaction of Muslims with violence certainly showed me that a meaningful dialogue is the last things on their minds. I believe they have no tolerance for any other religion other than Islam. So, ladies if you wish to be walking the streets in a black burkas (sp?) in 95 degree heat, then side with the poor Muslims and let me wear my tank top and cutoffs when I'm outside feeding my stock of horses, cattle, chickens and hogs.

If you didn't see the reaction for what Islam truly stands for today by those who would see your freedom to worship the way you want to be infringed, then you are wearing blinders.

I heard a comment from a caller on a radio show yesterday. He said he pulled up the Koran on the internet and searched for the word "love". He found only five references and they all referred to the love of Allah.

Let's all google and see if we can find one for the love of others.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

If They can't handle the truth then possibly they should reighn in the zealots and re-evaluate their belief system.
I am not Catholic but what the Pope said was the truth.
More Muslims kill Muslims then us "infidels" do.
The Koran does promote violence .......

I completely agree with you. Sometimes, the truth hurts.
And what do those Muslims do when they hear stuff they don't like? The wreak havoc. Violence.
Just goes to show that what the Pope said is true.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

BBG- (& everyone else) my thoughts EXACTLY. if they spent as much energy doing something constructive, and not being offended about every little thing (hey, the truth hurts) then maybe they'd get somewhere.. maybe even evolve into this century. i just love how they get all inflamed like a hornet's nest at every little thing.. someone says "hey you guys sure are violent" and they react in anger by-- hmm, guess what? getting violent. do ya think they can see the irony, even just a little bit??

and to the 'good muslims'-- don't give me your "islam is the religion of peace".. yeah,, you've got a real good track record of that, huh? what i can't figure out is why on earth would you even want to involve yourself in something that is associated with so much fanaticism, extremism, mass psychosis, hatred, suicidal acts, and violence against human civilization? not to mention utter hypocrisy?? why even be a part of that at all.......???

here in modern, ultra-PC america.. we have 'diversity' shoved down our throats at every turn. but i'm not buying it. how would people feel about 'diversity' when one day all your churches start getting converted into mosques? or muslims start taking over your city govt.?
it's easy to be PC when you're the one who's still in control.

sorry, but i will NOT be accepting any kind of religion that treats women the way they do (and where the women accept it) and hates western society as much as they do. i agree 100% that in many ways we are decadent and have many problems. but you don't go around blowing up things and flying airplanes into buildings because of it! how is THAT not the ultimate decadence???

I echo your sentiments!!

I am siding with the Pope on this one. I've had about enough of the terrorism and holy wars. That's what started all this crap eons ago!
Man of the "holy wars" occur: in the middle east. They originated there years and years ago. Where Jesus began.
It was all about one God versus another.
I am quite sure that the God I believe in doesn't condone tying a bomb to oneself and blowing up innocent people on the street.

 

[Details]

When extremist christian groups bomb abortion clinics and shoot doctors and their families - then it's just a few bad apples. But when it's a Muslim - then it's what Muslims in general believe? There's millions or billions of them - if Islam was as bad as it's being stated, if this is what all... or most.... or even a reasonable few Muslims believe, it wouldn't be a few churches (and the nun appears to be something completely different), we'd see a huge amount of destruction. If it were even 1% who are as bad as is being suggested, that'd be what - a few million people attacking?

I'm not wild about their religion - nor, more particularly, the traditions in that part of the world that are added in to the religion (as happens in most religions at some point or other). And there's plenty of idiots there, and the terrorist organizations using the name of Islam for things that most Muslims do not believe in. But putting them all in the same bin does nothing but harm the moderate Muslims, and make the lies of the extremists seem true.

And - I still don't hear what people would say if a Muslim leader of equal stature as the pope were to make an equivalent speech - I doubt we'd be looking for what the subtext and subtle points were - we'd hear "Jesus was evil and inhuman" from the mouth of an opposing religion, and 'Christian' extremists (have you heard about what some mosques here have had to deal with?) would likely enough destroy some mosques - after all, that is the Pope's stated theme - that we are all guilty of these stupid crimes, in all religions.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

I've heard about one - but that's why I've said it was not much - given worldwide coverage, many, many muslims in the world, many, many catholics and christians in the world - to have just that little bit of violent protest is a vast improvement - and every religion has their hotheads and idiots who use any excuse to go nuts.

I respect your opinion; however, even one violent act is too much. And who knows what else will happen in the next few days.

 

[Details]

I completely agree with you. Sometimes, the truth hurts.
And what do those Muslims do when they hear stuff they don't like? The wreak havoc. Violence.
Just goes to show that what the Pope said is true.

The same could be said for absolutely every single religion with more than a handful of followers on the planet, throughout all of history.

 

[Details]

I respect your opinion; however, even one violent act is too much. And who knows what else will happen in the next few days.

Too much for what? I'm wondering because you can see the precise same types of violent acts from any religious group - including Christians, including Catholics, etc. So - what is it too much for, because whatever that is, that label applies to us all.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

When extremist christian groups bomb abortion clinics and shoot doctors and their families - then it's just a few bad apples. But when it's a Muslim - then it's what Muslims in general believe? There's millions or billions of them - if Islam was as bad as it's being stated, if this is what all... or most.... or even a reasonable few Muslims believe, it wouldn't be a few churches (and the nun appears to be something completely different), we'd see a huge amount of destruction. If it were even 1% who are as bad as is being suggested, that'd be what - a few million people attacking?

I'm not wild about their religion - nor, more particularly, the traditions in that part of the world that are added in to the religion (as happens in most religions at some point or other). And there's plenty of idiots there, and the terrorist organizations using the name of Islam for things that most Muslims do not believe in. But putting them all in the same bin does nothing but harm the moderate Muslims, and make the lies of the extremists seem true.

And - I still don't hear what people would say if a Muslim leader of equal stature as the pope were to make an equivalent speech - I doubt we'd be looking for what the subtext and subtle points were - we'd hear "Jesus was evil and inhuman" from the mouth of an opposing religion, and 'Christian' extremists (have you heard about what some mosques here have had to deal with?) would likely enough destroy some mosques - after all, that is the Pope's stated theme - that we are all guilty of these stupid crimes, in all religions.

Muslim leaders say crap about Jesus ALL the time. Especially terrorists.

The Muslims' response to the Pope's words by killing a nun proves what the Pope said is true. Why kill a nun because you don't like what someone said about your religion?? She didn't do anything wrong!!!

Their angry and violent voices may only be a "fraction" of the Muslim groups, as you so imply; however, I don't see the then "majority" of Muslims demanding that their people stop their violence, or punishing them, or exiling them! Other Muslims could make a difference, if they are so "good" and in the "majority". But no, they are scared of their own people or they must agree for they never do anything to make these violent responses STOP happening.

Therefore, I have developed the belief that their God is not a God but a devil; for only the devil condones killing.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

Too much for what? I'm wondering because you can see the precise same types of violent acts from any religious group - including Christians, including Catholics, etc. So - what is it too much for, because whatever that is, that label applies to us all.

So you think that it's ok to kill an innocent nun?
That one act alone is too much.

We can go on and on about what you say Catholics and Christians have done and what Muslims have done. I bet my list would be 10 times longer than yours.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

The same could be said for absolutely every single religion with more than a handful of followers on the planet, throughout all of history.

Is that an opinion, or fact? If it is fact, please qualify with some exerpts...
we're talking about Muslims here. They are responsible for millions of deaths.

You could try to compare apples to oranges all night long, it doesn't make them the same fruit ever.

 

[Details]

Muslim leaders say crap about Jesus ALL the time. Especially terrorists.

The Muslims' response to the Pope's words by killing a nun proves what the Pope said is true. Why kill a nun because you don't like what someone said about your religion?? She didn't do anything wrong!!!

Their angry and violent voices may only be a "fraction" of the Muslim groups, as you so imply; however, I don't see the then "majority" of Muslims demanding that their people stop their violence, or punishing them, or exiling them! Other Muslims could make a difference, if they are so "good" and in the "majority". But no, they are scared of their own people or they must agree for they never do anything to make these violent responses STOP happening.

Therefore, I have developed the belief that their God is not a God but a devil; for only the devil condones killing.

You should look harder. 'Muslim' terrorists say crap - but do you see a serious, mainstream, Muslim leader - not an extremist, not a terrorist - an equivalent to the pope saying such things? The terrorist plan to bomb several London planes was broken because a Muslim spoke up about what he saw and reported people he suspected might be terrorists. And they do speak out saying the terrorists are not true muslims, that their message of jihad is BS, etc.

Two individuals killed the nun - and we don't know why - she was in a place were lots of people get killed - that's why the nun had a bodyguard. Could be two idiots who heard that segment of the Pope's address, and decided to send a message back - or could be they had other reasons - but whatever it is - it's two individuals - how do you blame all Muslims for what so few do? But you don't praise all Muslims for their actions to prevent terrorism and hunt them down (and they do more than we do in that line, for obvious reasons).

 

[Details]

So you think that it's ok to kill an innocent nun?
That one act alone is too much.

We can go on and on about what you say Catholics and Christians have done and what Muslims have done. I bet my list would be 10 times longer than yours.

I thought one was too much - now you want to compare lists of atrocities and measure which is the heavier load?

 

[Details]

Is that an opinion, or fact? If it is fact, please qualify with some exerpts...
we're talking about Muslims here. They are responsible for millions of deaths.

You could try to compare apples to oranges all night long, it doesn't make them the same fruit ever.

Likewise for christians. For an initial start - read the pope's speech - that was actually pretty much supposed to be his point - as clumsily as it was made in that one section.

Forceful conversion of Indians in the new world, the crusades, those books backed with human skin, bombing abortion clinics, the inquisition, and let's not miss Serbia.

What's your list for muslims? And you really think it's a zero sum game - the side with even a little fewer atrocities wins? In that case, we might want to both convert to Buddism. Of course, that only applies if we also both believe that all followers of a religion are responsible for any interpretation of that religion, anything done in the name of that religion, even if it is by some extremist, terrorist nutjob.

 

[BarnGoddess]

You should look harder. 'Muslim' terrorists say crap - but do you see a serious, mainstream, Muslim leader - not an extremist, not a terrorist - an equivalent to the pope saying such things? The terrorist plan to bomb several London planes was broken because a Muslim spoke up about what he saw and reported people he suspected might be terrorists. And they do speak out saying the terrorists are not true muslims, that their message of jihad is BS, etc.

Two individuals killed the nun - and we don't know why - she was in a place were lots of people get killed - that's why the nun had a bodyguard. Could be two idiots who heard that segment of the Pope's address, and decided to send a message back - or could be they had other reasons - but whatever it is - it's two individuals - how do you blame all Muslims for what so few do? But you don't praise all Muslims for their actions to prevent terrorism and hunt them down (and they do more than we do in that line, for obvious reasons).

Two individuals? How many individuals kidnapped those Israeli soldiers? One, two? They did it in the name of Allah!!!!!!!!! The moderate Muslims are NOT speaking out in MASS protesting the extremists. The president of Iran has called for our destruction, the denial of the Holocaust, etc. The sprirtual leader, the Iman, has not repudiated his comments. Is that not what you would consider a MAJOR Islamic leader(s)? Hamas controls Palestne. Not extremist? Who speaks out? Al Quaida calling for YOU to convert or else.

I'm not ready to convert. Either willingly or with a knife to my throat. If you want to convert, then do so. I have no tolerance of anyone telling me how to worship.

FYI: I also abhor the Christian extremists who murder abortion doctors and bomb clinics for exactly the same reason. When they are caught, I would willingly administer the death penalty myself.