Position of arms

[Ivy]

If I recall correctly, LHP also said she thought the blanket and nightgown might have come from the dryer.

If the blanket was taken from the dryer and the nightgown was in there too, the nightgown probably stuck to the blanket by way of static cling--and dropped off the blanket when the blanket was given a little shake to straighten it out right before putting it on JonBenet's body.

 

[candy]

I've believed that the arms extended over the head came from Patsy taking off the wet red turtleneck and putting her in the white turtleneck she was found in.

 

[Seeker]

I've believed that the arms extended over the head came from Patsy taking off the wet red turtleneck and putting her in the white turtleneck she was found in.

She wasn't found in a white turtleneck. She was found in the same shirt she wore to the White's that night.
From the autopsy report, "decendent is clothed in a long sleeved white knit collarless shirt,"
The fact that she was found in the same exact shirt she wore to the White's for dinner supports the statement Patsy made about what she fell asleep in.

 

[FULTON]

TOTH.......... Did they above posters answer your question about FAVORITE?????

 

[lannie]

Originally posted by Seeker
She wasn't found in a white turtleneck. She was found in the same shirt she wore to the White's that night.
From the autopsy report, "decendent is clothed in a long sleeved white knit collarless shirt,"
The fact that she was found in the same exact shirt she wore to the White's for dinner supports the statement Patsy made about what she fell asleep in.

Reply from Lannie ,
Now that does make sense I can see Patsy dressing JB in the red turtleneck for the trip to Mi. She may of dressed her the night before as mothers do sometimes with children who are hard to awake & grumpy about getting up , most clothing of children do not show wrinkling even if they sleep in them .

 

[lannie]

And then she may of wet in bed & the red shirt had to be removed & the white shirt put back on & that is why her arms are over her head, because if dressed after dead she would of had her arms raised & Mortis set in befor they could be reset.

 

[Toth]

If I recall correctly, LHP also said she thought the blanket and nightgown might have come from the dryer.

Which dryer?
Is this the same dryer that is in the laundry area where a paring knife was found? An item not normally kept there and an item that can't be linked to any other knives in the Ramsey home?

Do you think that Patsy Ramey went out at two in the morning and bought both the foreign male dna and the paring knife at the same store?

 

[Imon128]

It has been stated that the basement dryer and washer were blanket/large items laundry. Please...don't throw me in dee briar patch and make me find it......sigh.

 

[Ivy]

The paring knife belonged to the Ramseys, Toth. It came from their kitchen. In JB case discussions, the knife is sometimes referred to as a potato knife or a kitchen knife. It was found on the laundry counter that was outside JonBenet's bedroom. When Burke opened the laundry cabinet for whatever reason, he probably found his Swiss Army knife, the one LHP had hidden from him there, and since he didn't need the stupid paring/potato/kitchen knife anymore, he left it on the laundry counter.

LHP said she thought the white blanket found on JonBenet might have come from the dryer that was inside the laundry cabinet outside JonBenet's room. It is the cabinet upon whose counter the paring/potato/kitchen knife was found.

Foreign DNA, Toth? What foreign DNA? Has it been established that the fingernail and panties DNA is not "noise" or the result of the DNA amplification process? If so, PLEASE PROVIDE A LEGITIMATE SOURCE DOCUMENTING THAT JUICY TIDBIT OF NEW INFORMATION.

 

[eliza]

I believe the arms were over her head and left that way when she died. I feel that by the time her parents found her she was already in rigor mortis, so the position of her arms had to be worked into the plan for the staging of the crime.

 

[Ivy]

eliza, I absolutely agree.

I think Burke was in a panic after he killed JonBenet (maybe in the train room) and pulled/dragged her body by the arms to hide it in the wine cellar. That's why her arms were over her head.

 

[eliza]

Exactly Ivy! Burke, unable to lift JBR would have to drag her to hide her body. The dragging of the body might explain more than than just the position of the arms over the head. I think it also could account for some of the scrapes and bruises found on her body. Her hair may have picked up bits of garland on the floor as she was being dragged, thus accounting for pieces of garland in her hair.

 

[Toth]

The paring knife belonged to the Ramseys, Toth. It came from their kitchen.

Please explain how you know it came from their kitchen when neither of the Ramseys are able to identify it and even the housekeeper can not identify it and there are no similar, matched-set knives in the kitchen?

 

[Ivy]

Toth, LHP identified the paring knife as one used in the Ramsey household to peel potatoes... but of course, when John and Patsy were shown a photo of the knife, they denied owning it. That's not to say they weren't able to identify it. It means they refused to.

 

[Ivy]

Right, eliza. Dragging could account for some of the injuries found on JonBenet's body. The autopsy report states that there were abrasions on the lower left side of JonBenet's back and on the posterior of her lower left leg. These abrasions might be indicative of her body having been dragged.

I think you're right that the garland pieces found in her hair may have gotten there from her body being dragged. I'd never thought of that.

 

[Toth]

Toth, LHP identified the paring knife as one used in the Ramsey household to peel potatoes...

And John Ramsey laughed and said in his house, potatoes come from a box.

 

[Ivy]

Toth...John had a reason to lie. LHP didn't. What motive, what reason, would LHP possibly have had for lying about recognizing the knife as one used to peel potatoes in the Ramsey household?

 

[Toth]

Does Patsy Ramsey strike you as the type who peels potatoes?
Don't you think if the cops had other knives in the home that matched this one we have heard about that.
LHP thinks dollars before she answers any question.

 

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by Nehemiah
Something that seems really odd to me is the way that JB's arms were "tied" above her head. Think about how difficult that would be to accomplish with a child flailing about and her arms going every which way. If she were rendered unconscious first, then WHY even place her arms in that position?

I would think the most common and easiest position would have been to have tied them behind her back. Unless, of course, she had been slightly suspended in some way from her arms. I realize that due to livor mortis and such, that she was not actually hanging with her full body weight, but could she have been partially suspended against something, such as the headboard of her bed, or something else? In reading the autopsy report, it stated that the cord was slightly higher in the back of her neck.

From the autopsy report:

"The ligature furrow crosses the anterior midline of the neck just below the
laryngeal prominence, approximately at the level of the cricoid cartilage. It is almost completely horizontal with slight upward deviation from the horizontal towards the back of the neck. The
midline of the furrow mark on the
anterior neck is 8 inches below the top of the head. The midline of the furrow mark on the posterior neck is 6.75 inches below the top of the head."

This is one of those things that I don't have settled in my mind. Any comments?

Edited to make a correction.

It's not settled in my mind either...it brings back the fact that John Walsh stated on national tv that "she let him go down and cut her down...was allowed to go down and cut her down..."... ??? in his LKL interview 2003 regarding JonBenet and her dad...???what's that about/mean?:dontknow:

 

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by Imon128
I think it is, yes.

K-Mart; let's not forget/remember that the "break-in/...???" Patsy's K-Mart jewelry was stolen on same day as this ...???

Feb. 21, 2001 - The parents of murder victim JonBenét Ramsey say they have been victimized again - this time by an intruder who broke into their Atlanta home Tuesday.

John Ramsey told police he returned home shortly before noon from a trip to a Home Depot store and surprised the burglar, who claimed to be a workman.

When he tried to call 911, a scuffle broke out, Ramsey said.

"We fought for a while, and he eventually locked me in a room and left," Ramsey told Paula Woodward of 9News. "It wasn't that secure, but at that point, I decided the best thing I could do was let him get out of here, so I didn't try to resist anymore."

Ramsey, who suffered only superficial injuries, came out a few minutes later and called police.

He said the thief took his wallet, a computer, his wife Patsy's "Kmart jewelry" and some clothes. The intruder also may have taken some guns from the two-story, Mediterranean-style house, police said.

Patsy Ramsey was at a Bible study class, and the couple's teenage son, Burke, was in school at the time.

The break-in raised new security concerns, Ramsey said.

"It's a horrible invasion of your privacy and your feeling of safety. We certainly went through that with JonBenét. It certainly has resurfaced," he told Woodward.


... just FWIW...my husband of 18 years wouldn't know if my jewelry was K-Mart or Not...???...

how did John know Patsy's jewelry was K-MART?...really now/? .... I'm open-minded and all ears...please help me hear/understand!:dontknow: