Possible NEW Suspects In JonBenet Ramsey Case?

[Roy23]

Lots of good posts by all. Thanks. Lots to think about.

Roy - Until recently Mitchell was held in a mental hospital, convicted of no crime, and no legal basis to compel a DNA draw. I can also tell you I have specific reason to think he has NOT been considered a suspect in the case until now and he has NOT been cleared by DNA.

AK,

I am fine with you proving me wrong here. I thought he was the perfect suspect for this. It is no coincidence that the crimes he committed also had the parents of prime suspects. I know some FBI thought he was someone to look at and they have ways of getting DNA without you knowing about it. But like I said, I hope you get your confirmation. I just guess a coke bottle or something else has already been tested. I do not know this as fact though.

It would be gross negligence had they not tested Wanda and the nutcase prior to this legally or not.

 

[twinkiesmom]

A big problem with the Mitchell theory is Mitchell and Barzee have a pattern of heading to warmer areas during winter months. Boulder in December does not appear to be a good fit with their nomadic lifestyle.

 

[AKWILKS]

Ted Kaczynski was convicted in 1998, and he has still not had a DNA draw. That is why the FBI is seeking a court order to get his DNA in the Tylenol case, based on information given to them by me and Doug Oswell.

Mrs. McKnight testified that when she asked Mitchell and Barzee in 1995 where they were going, they said "Colorado".

 

[Patience]

A big problem with the Mitchell theory is Mitchell and Barzee have a pattern of heading to warmer areas during winter months. Boulder in December does not appear to be a good fit with their nomadic lifestyle.

But, if they were there earlier and worked in the area or in the home then they might have gotten info on their personal lives, and went back on a holiday to take Jonbenet. It is possible imho. I don't think we can rule them out until their DNA is ruled out.

 

[Barry]

I don't see any way to lose here. It's worth getting the draw, regardless of involvement in the JonBenet case. It could help solve other unsolved abductions or assaults that involved Mitchell and Barzee.

 

[AKWILKS]

Patience, and everyone, consider this. Mrs. McKnight testified under oath that Mitchell-Barzee said they were going to "Colorado". I have no reason to doubt her and I believe it to be true.

Mitchell and Barzee went to Colorado in late 1995, and may have been there in Winter of 1996.

Why then in their journal, do Mitchell - Barzee never mention going to Colorado?

Why lie about it?

In a journal in which every other person is identified by a first and last name, why do they make the improbable claim that a "homeless blackman named Phil" gave them $300 to go to Alaska? Their apparent alibi for Christmas 1996 is a homeless man named "Phil" just gave them $300 and they went to Alaska.

Sorry, I don't buy it!

And I find it odd that they deny going to Colorado and offer this nonsense in exchange.

 

[UKGuy]

Does anyone really believe that CODIS didnt check Mitchell and Barzees dna against that found on JonBenet? Sorry but there are so many holes in this theory which make it very implausible for me.

joeskidbeck,

Not me, its my understanding that suspects and those with convictions are routinely compared.

Also by default their family members are also included since they share 50% , 25% of their genes etc, so particular markers will pop up.


.

 

[AKWILKS]

After his capture, Mitchell spent several years in a mental hospital, being judged incompetent to stand trial. Just within the past month has he been convicted of a crime and sentenced to prison. Until now, there was no legal basis to compel a DNA draw on him.

At some point in the next few weeks/months, he should have a DNA draw done. However, the current backlog stands at 300,000 DNA profiles taken from convicts and waiting to be entered into CODIS. By routine procedure, if and when the Mitchell DNA is taken, it will go to the back of this line, meaning it might not be entered into CODIS for several years.

The reason I am doing this research is to see if there are valid reasons to consider Mitchell a suspect in the JonBenet case, and if so, can I get the police to do a DNA comparison right now, instead of years from now. I have started the process and so far, I am satisfied with the way things are going.

 

[madeleine]

even if I personally don't see a connection between the two cases (so far) I find your theory interesting,it's something new and I am glad you're doing something about it.it's not like the Boulder officials are doing anything anyway....who knows,maybe someday an outsider will do something to change the status of this case.

 

[Chris_Texas]

I am firmly in the RDI camp.

However, you do tentatively place this known pedo, a guy who perpetrated a home invasion to carry out his crime, in the STATE of Colorado. While there is no reason not to test his DNA, there is also no reason to jump to any conclusions.

In most cases of this kind, the perpetrator is usually someone in (or a close friend of) the family. In this particular case we have a lot more than statistics to back up the RDI conviction many of us hold. We have fibers, DNA, a unique ransom note (for many reasons), weapons constructed in the home, an obviously and unusually staged body, mis-sized clothing, a family in full obstruction mode, and I could go on.

But let me play devil's advocate...

Obviously, an intruder who had access to the Ransey home, unattended and over a multi-hour period, could well answer a lot of those questions. He would have seen pictures of JB, he would have had all the time he wanted to write as many ranson notes and construct as many murder devides as he desired, he could easily have gone through their trash, he could even have been in the home while the Ramsey's discussed his bonus.

He might even have been in the kitchen when JB snuck down for a pineapple snack. Or, it being christmas, he might well have worn a santa hat or outfit, snuck into JB's room as Santa and invited her downstairs for her special present. We can construct all kinds of scenarios, particularly if you begin with the intruder spending hours in the Ramsey home. Once you allow that ANYTHING is possible.

But in this case that is almost certainly not what happened.

 

[Agatha_C]

Welcome Back my friend!! I have missed you greatly!!:woohoo::great:

And to you as well my friend!

 

[Agatha_C]

I am firmly in the RDI camp.

However, you do tentatively place this known pedo, a guy who perpetrated a home invasion to carry out his crime, in the STATE of Colorado. While there is no reason not to test his DNA, there is also no reason to jump to any conclusions.

In most cases of this kind, the perpetrator is usually someone in (or a close friend of) the family. In this particular case we have a lot more than statistics to back up the RDI conviction many of us hold. We have fibers, DNA, a unique ransom note (for many reasons), weapons constructed in the home, an obviously and unusually staged body, mis-sized clothing, a family in full obstruction mode, and I could go on.

But let me play devil's advocate...

Obviously, an intruder who had access to the Ransey home, unattended and over a multi-hour period, could well answer a lot of those questions. He would have seen pictures of JB, he would have had all the time he wanted to write as many ranson notes and construct as many murder devides as he desired, he could easily have gone through their trash, he could even have been in the home while the Ramsey's discussed his bonus.

He might even have been in the kitchen when JB snuck down for a pineapple snack. Or, it being christmas, he might well have worn a santa hat or outfit, snuck into JB's room as Santa and invited her downstairs for her special present. We can construct all kinds of scenarios, particularly if you begin with the intruder spending hours in the Ramsey home. Once you allow that ANYTHING is possible.

But in this case that is almost certainly not what happened.

Chris,

This was an excellent post in response to a very well thought out theory of AK's. You are both a credit to this forum, though I am biased by the RDI...lol.. Again, an excellent post.... :great:

 

[AKWILKS]

Chris Texas - Interesting points. Are you aware that in regards to the 9/14/97 attempted abduction of JonBenet's dance school class mate, the 14 year old "Amy", police think the intruder did come inside the house while everyone was away, and waited until they came back, activated the alarm and went to bed before assaulting "Amy"? This suspect was 5' 7" tall, apparently about the size of Mitchell.

Also, this is the article that appeared in the local paper just days before the JonBenet aborted kidnapping/murder. It mentions a "billion dollars" in sales. It references the prior Southern location of the company (Georgia), as no doubt papers in the house would, thus leading someone with only this knowledge to advise John Ramsey to use his "southern common sense", when in fact he is from Michigan.

Elizabeth Smart said that Mitchell would go to libraries prior to attempted kidnappings, he said to look at "maps". Might he also have looked at newspapers, at the library or elsewhere, to identify potential targets? Or is the newspaper article just a coincidence?

If John and/or Patsy Ramsey threw in the $118,000 bonus as the ransom demand to make it look like an angry current or ex employee did it, why would they throw in the "southern common sense" comment, since certainly current or former employees would know that John was not from the South, did not have a Southern accent and in fact was from Michigan?

http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1996/12/21-1.html

 

[Chris_Texas]

Chris Texas - Interesting points. Are you aware that in regards to the 9/14/97 attempted abduction of JonBenet's dance school class mate, the 14 year old "Amy", police think the intruder did come inside the house while everyone was away, and waited until they came back, activated the alarm and went to bed before assaulting "Amy"? This suspect was 5' 7" tall, apparently about the size of Mitchell.

I was aware of this. However, if we are gonna throw out theories and try to tie these crimes together based upon this, is it not equally likely that John Ramsey, multi-millionaire, a man who demonstrated that he would spend ANY amount of money to obstruct justice in this case...

HIRED the perp in this follow up crime?

Not saying he did this. Not even suggesting it. I am saying that so long as we are playing "is it possibe" games then this would make the grade. After all, the perp here did NOT actually injure the girl (beyong the psychological trauma, not trying to minimize that here). He actually behaved in the way one might suspect that a hired "sex offender" would act. He touched her, perhaps licked her (though saliva was not found) and generally scared the holy crap out of her before fleeing.

What a fantastic piece of exculpatory evidence for the defense to have! And it's not like Mr Ramsey could not have afforded it.

Also, this is the article that appeared in the local paper just days before the JonBenet aborted kidnapping/murder. It mentions a "billion dollars" in sales. It references the prior Southern location of the company (Georgia), as no doubt papers in the house would, thus leading someone with only this knowledge to advise John Ramsey to use his "southern common sense", when in fact he is from Michigan.

Apparently the "good southern sense" line was an inside joke among members of the family. THEY used to say that about John if I recall correctly. This is often used by RDI as further evidence that it was a family member that wrote the note.

The news article does offer another possible explanation.

Elizabeth Smart said that Mitchell would go to libraries prior to attempted kidnappings, he said to look at "maps". Might he also have looked at newspapers, at the library or elsewhere, to identify potential targets? Or is the newspaper article just a coincidence?

I am open to the idea that Mitchell might have graduated from killing to sex slavery AND shifted his ideal victim up in age. I am also willing to consider that this guy did both crimes. I see no reason why his DNA should not be checked. Quietly though. Lord knows the it is going to be hard enough (if not impossible) to get justice for JB without offering the Ramseys more potential scapegoats.

If John and/or Patsy Ramsey threw in the $118,000 bonus as the ransom demand to make it look like an angry current or ex employee did it, why would they throw in the "southern common sense" comment, since certainly current or former employees would know that John was not from the South, did not have a Southern accent and in fact was from Michigan?

http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1996/12/21-1.html

I tried to address this above. I believe the theory is that Patsy was so worked up that she slipped that (and a bunch of other) cutesy crap in there without really thinking it all the way through. Or perhaps not.

Unlike some, my personal "theory" is that John was not there while Patsy wrote the note. I believe he was downstairs dressing JB - thus explaining both the wrong sized undies and the absolutely crazy note. In other words, I think they were both doing a job that the other would have done better. Had Patsy dressed JB the clothes would have been correct; had John written the note it would have been short and businesslike.

(NOTE: all of the above is THEORY, OPINION, and/or SPECULATION. It should not be taken as fact.)

 

[DeeDee249]

Welcome Back my friend!! I have missed you greatly!!:woohoo::great:

Ditto!

 

[Tadpole12]

RE: Cold Hits

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/for...ions/fsc/july2009/undermicroscope/table1.htm/

Table 1: Statistics of Cold Hits and Success Rates Based on NDIS Data from CODIS
(Extracted from the Web Site http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/codis/clickmap.htm, as of January 16, 2009)





​

 

[Tadpole12]

CODIS STR Population Data:
http://projects.nfstc.org/workshops...ion/12_CODIS STR Loci Data from 41 Sample.pdf


Population Data on the 13 CODIS Core Short Tandum Repeat Loci
http://projects.nfstc.org/workshops...opulation Data on the Thirteen CODIS Core.pdf

 

[BBB167893]

You are asking me to explain the unexplainable. I can't.

You just nailed the entire problem, AKWILKS!

Can you explain why Patsy Ramsey, who seemingly loved her daughter and had no prior history of violence or abuse, bashed her child's skull in, and then tied a rope around her neck? Can you explain why John Ramsey, with no prior history of child abuse, molested and killed his daughter?

I can try!

Could an intruder have duct taped the mouth of JonBenet to silence her, and unintentionally suffocated her?

Highly unlikely. The duct tape piece was very small, of no real use on a live victim.

 

[BBB167893]

AK,

I can see that you have put a lot of time and thought into your theory and I respect that even if I dont agree and I dont.

Just because we haven't heard about prior molestation or abuse does not mean it wasnt happening or had never happened. Family secrets, are not new. Many, many cases of abuse are never reported. Every single abused child I have taken into my home has a mother that claims to love them.

Diane Downs had never been reported for abuse and yet she was able to shoot all three of her children, killing one and handicapping the other two. Susan Smith also had no prior abuse charges or suspicions, in fact it was reported that she had been a good and loving mother. Just because we havent heard about their family secrets does not mean that there werent any, we just simply dont know.

Unlike ES, Jonbenet was garotted and the binding on her hands was so loose that a six year old child could have escaped if she had wanted too. Ask yourself this, why werent her feet bound? JB was raped with her own mother paintbrush not an intruder/kidnappers penis. JB's body was washed after the crime and not before.

Its quite possible that JB death was an accident and not an act of premeditated murder leaving this RDI to wonder what secrets did the Rs need to hide by staging the kidnapping. Sexual abuse would be my answer. Or mabe, just maybe a mentally unstable mother.

Welcome back, Agatha. I was getting worried!

I agree with everything, btw.

 

[BBB167893]

Chris Texas - Interesting points. Are you aware that in regards to the 9/14/97 attempted abduction of JonBenet's dance school class mate, the 14 year old "Amy", police think the intruder did come inside the house while everyone was away, and waited until they came back, activated the alarm and went to bed before assaulting "Amy"? This suspect was 5' 7" tall, apparently about the size of Mitchell.

Pardon my butting in, what which police would these be? So far, the only person I know who puts any stock in this is a private investigator known for being unscrupulous. Indeed, I've often wondered if "Amy" made up the whole story to cover for a "boyfriend" or such like.

If John and/or Patsy Ramsey threw in the $118,000 bonus as the ransom demand to make it look like an angry current or ex employee did it, why would they throw in the "southern common sense" comment, since certainly current or former employees would know that John was not from the South, did not have a Southern accent and in fact was from Michigan?

Same reason, basically. That's assuming that the writer was thinking that clearly!