Post verdict discussion of evidence

[gritguy]

How do you and others continue to be suspicious of JA? She was a concerned friend who had the guts to call the police. What lies did she tell? None. She also has no motive for being involved.

There is a line of thinking that if the CPD did not only fail to close down any reasonable alternative suspect but in fact any possible scenario, then the conclusion is that BC was railroaded.

So, for example, the other guy is the child's father, and he murders NC from the back of a van driven by two hispanics. Meanwhile, JA decides to initiate, on the spot (or perhaps with prior planning with "the other guy") a scheme to frame BC because she was angry NC had perhaps talked to her husband, BA. Using her powers of persuasion, she controlled all flow of information to the police. The conspiracy was furthered when CPD agreed to destroy critical evidence that would have exonerated BC, and the FBI agreed to either plant or overlook the planting of evidence of a fairly vague nature that would incriminate BC. This was to support the town council's plan that the town is only safe if the murderer is a spouse, not just that the murderer is caught (ignoring that leaving the real murderer on the loose could lead to another murder thereby destroying the town's image).

Take a moment, and then stay with me Agent Mulder. BC's ex-lover supported the alibi of the other guy who may have murdered NC, even though she had a fondness for BC and continued to support him after the murder - or did she?? The conspiracy continued when modestly paid DA's agreed to prosecute the framed innocent BC to support Cary's plan to keep a high-income neighborhood safe-seeming by the genius plan of leaving a murderer on the loose. Quite naturally, the judge was in on this.

Also, the child custody judge was in on it, and also the divorce attorney who very unfairly asked BC about his actions the night/morning of the murder knowing full well that might cause him to lie, which is very unfair. BC's ex-fiance, whose name he could not remember, was in on it. Cisco was in on it, coming up with late breaking "evidence."

This extremely reasonable scenario that was never debunked will require a United Nations panel to resolve, involving as the conspiracy does common citizens, a murderer, local law enforcement, federal law enforcement, a judge, and several DA's. And until that UN panel finally generates an unbiased report, we simply must live with the fact that an innocent man was railroaded with no hope of prevailing against a multi-level conspiracy of the very worst sort. JFK, MLK, Princess Diana, BC, all victims of highly organized conspiracies.

You can laugh at my theory if you want, but until law enforcement proves that did not happen, it is only logical to believe BC is innocent. :sigh:

 

[Madeleine74]

Beam me up, Scotty. That's a conspiracy not even the aliens (you know, the little green men variety) could match. But yes, everything you wrote is something one person or another has alleged throughout the case, although generally not happening all at the same time. Or did it...?????

 

[unc70]

If I remember correctly, like the phone, it was 9-10 months later and too late to trace the google search to the user. Let me see if I can find the exact details though.

My point is that if the police had found the search evidence that early, they should have secured from Google the confirming log records while they were still available.

 

[Madeleine74]

The FBI in Quantico found those files on BC computer. The FBI would not then go to Google to get their records, though the local jurisdiction certainly could have tried.

 

[macd]

My point is that if the police had found the search evidence that early, they should have secured from Google the confirming log records while they were still available.

Open question for those who see reasonable doubt in the case as presented:
Had Google corroborated that the search was from the laptop at the reported time, would that remove your reasonable doubt?

 

[ncsu95]

The FBI in Quantico found those files on BC computer. The FBI would not then go to Google to get their records, though the local jurisdiction certainly could have tried.

I thought the detective in Durham found those files.

 

[ncsu95]

Open question for those who see reasonable doubt in the case as presented:
Had Google corroborated that the search was from the laptop at the reported time, would that remove your reasonable doubt?

It would have removed all doubt for me.

 

[Madeleine74]

Those secure web searches/logins on BC's laptop on 7/11, both before and after the Google search removed any doubt for me. Those all had invalid timestamps too. He did work on Cisco files/servers from that laptop on 7/11 (invalid timestamps on those too), he logged into his citibank account (https), he logged in to his Hilton Honors site (https), all around the same time (within 30 min or so) of that Google search. Combined with the log file from CSCO showing exactly when his computer timed out and he then logged back in with his password and Ctrl-Alt-Del, there is no doubt for me that his Google search was valid. He also searched a weather site that day, as he had on previous occasions, by first entering his zip code: 27518. And he previously used Google maps in the same way. The consistency of his computer usage on 7/11 to prior usage (June was used as one example) for those weather and Google searches, provides proof.

All his activity on 7/10 - 7/12 had invalid timestamps. Invalid timestamps on some files went back to June. Even the work he did and the web searches and citibank logins the defense never claimed were anything but valid and done by BC.

 

[macd]

As I understand it, the main anomaly that JW highlighted was that the "creation time" was identical to the "last access time" for every single one of the 41 map images.
Am I remembering this correctly? link to jrb post

I just did a google on "microsoft vista last access" and found that Microsoft removed updating the "last access" timestamp as a performance enhancement to Vista. It would be normal and expected for those timestamps to be identical.
link to technet blog

 

[BeBeBru]

Not sure why people are saying BC didn't lie, when his own attorneys said he did. Even Kurtz in opening statements admitted his client lied during his deposition. A proven liar. Called a liar even by his defense attorneys. Not disputed.

The same reason that no one is mentioning how the clique lied, time after time after time.......They were all drinking wine from the testimony from their own mouth......How could of CPD get it right from a bunch of people who were always
in an altered state of mind......I could say much more...... I don't think Brad's admited lie counts......it's only when one lies and never backs down from it even when confronted with evidence of a lie.......let me mention a few.......ducks,
necklace, all detergent..... I think Brad is innocent and I will work in any way to help the injustice that has prevailed. ~jmho~

 

[BeBeBru]

Who is saying BC didn't lie? He's a lying liar that lies.

I have be looking for the right verbage to describe the clique, CPD, Prosc,
and you have just provided it for me.....they are all lying liars that lie. ~jmho~

 

[jrb0124]

There is a line of thinking that if the CPD did not only fail to close down any reasonable alternative suspect but in fact any possible scenario, then the conclusion is that BC was railroaded.
.
.
.
And until that UN panel finally generates an unbiased report, we simply must live with the fact that an innocent man was railroaded with no hope of prevailing against a multi-level conspiracy of the very worst sort. JFK, MLK, Princess Diana, BC, all victims of highly organized conspiracies.

You can laugh at my theory if you want, but until law enforcement proves that did not happen, it is only logical to believe BC is innocent. :sigh:

Its a common post here to ridicule anyone questioning the investigation and State's case by implying that those not convinced of BC's guilt must subscribe to some 'conspiracy' theory involving the FBI, CPD, DA, Cisco, JP, JA, AS etc... instead of responding to valid points raised and still unanswered.

Here are a few, but there are many more:


1) Why didn't they track down the van seen in the cul de sac near the dump site? Whether those individuals were involved or not, perhaps they may have info helpful to the investigation? If they worked for the builder - shouldn't have been too hard right?
No, they were not tracked down, no effort there.

2) Why didn't they test the wire and cig butts (while there was still DNA not 2 years later) at the dump site? Why wouldn't they unless the reason is that those tests could only yield exculpatory evidence.

3) Why didn't they track down the woman who RZ did exchange hellos with if it wasn't NC? With all the roadbloacks, flyers, publicity...how hard would it be to track down this woman? You'd think maybe she would have even come forward? You would think they would have wanted to track her down to answer RZ's testimony right? Would have negated that entirely instead of spending 3 witnesses trying to do it on rebuttal.


Here are what many of the BDI posters will claim as 'conspiracies':

*Suggestion that a LEO could purposely destroy, hide or tamper with exculpatory evidence. Conspiracy! well, not really since quite a few are sitting in jail for just that.

*Suggestion that a SA would risk their career and reputation by engaging in misconduct. Conspiracy! well, not really since it happened locally not too long ago.

*Suggestion that someone other than a woman's husband can have a motive to murder her regardless and independent of of any unrest in her marriage. Conspiracy!

*Suggestion that police investigations may initially focus on the wrong suspect given a certain mix of circumstances. Conspiracy!


Sit back and think about it...those starred items above indicate a more grounded perception. Additionally, its plausible and by no means a stretch of reality, that they can/did all happen concurrently.

This is not an idealistic and sacred regard of LE and the State that so many cling to at all costs. I understand the psychology behind that mindset; to each his/her own, but when you ridicule those who challenge that sacred regard it might be you who is out in left field.

 

[Bottle Cap]

jrb0124, I did that one time - posted a theory mashup someone referred to as disingenious. My point in posting it was that there are theories coming out of left field, and every BII person uses bits and pieces of all of them as if there is some giant comprehensive, cohesive alternate theory that can be laid out there. If you make a point regarding one conspiracy theory that doesn't hold water, 5 more pop up in its place instead of a logical answer. If you say JA's whereabouts are accounted for, you immediately get something about a cellphone. If you say something about a router, you get duck lies. I asked for a comprehensive alternate theory in place of all this stuff, because I really really would be interested in hearing one that doesn't make me roll my eyes. I was told that wouldn't happen here, not out in the open. Which makes me then wonder, what's wrong with it? Is it that far fetched?

Those of us who are still here who believe BC is guilty are now suspected of being on the inside circle. I'm certainly not, I'm in Raleigh and I haven't even been here all that long. What I AM interested in is an appeal for BC - I want to see if it happens. If it does I'll welcome it. I think it will squash, once and for all, all the gossip and melodrama.

I have to say, the sheer enmity in the posts regarding friends and neighbors does make me wonder if it's not the other way around with regard to who's an insider and who isn't. Okay, maybe not in the inner circle, maybe just outside of it and looking in, quite familiar with it.

 

[gritguy]

Jrb,

I have specifically stated that my posts were toward the line of thinking that bc is lily white and anything he did untoward must be explained away at any cost to logic or common sense.

That does not pertain to the line of thinking that the state made a poor case or cpd investigated poorly. In fact, I personally have those opinions. Therefore, suggestions of evidence he is innocent are interesting as well as spoliation of evidence. The ideas that he was the victim of a vast conspiracy (sorry some do allege it) or he never did anything reproachful just lack in logic and common sense, IMO.

 

[unc70]

Those secure web searches/logins on BC's laptop on 7/11, both before and after the Google search removed any doubt for me. Those all had invalid timestamps too. He did work on Cisco files/servers from that laptop on 7/11 (invalid timestamps on those too), he logged into his citibank account (https), he logged in to his Hilton Honors site (https), all around the same time (within 30 min or so) of that Google search. Combined with the log file from CSCO showing exactly when his computer timed out and he then logged back in with his password and Ctrl-Alt-Del, there is no doubt for me that his Google search was valid. He also searched a weather site that day, as he had on previous occasions, by first entering his zip code: 27518. And he previously used Google maps in the same way. The consistency of his computer usage on 7/11 to prior usage (June was used as one example) for those weather and Google searches, provides proof.

All his activity on 7/10 - 7/12 had invalid timestamps. Invalid timestamps on some files went back to June. Even the work he did and the web searches and citibank logins the defense never claimed were anything but valid and done by BC.

Since you heard this testimony that we have not:

Which weather site?

Did the registry entries match the TIF?

Are the index.dat files in the History directories consistent with the one in the TIF?

If he searched for these items in late June, why were the cached values under Content_IE5 not reused for the cursors (from index.dat in TIF as .cur, in the cache content as .bmp)j? If the TIF was being cleaned such that would preclude such reuse, it would likely have been cleaned after July 11. Were they recycled?

Yes, search records from Google would have avoided most of these questions.

 

[jilly]

Well I'm definitely a BDI and I come here to read now and then. It's called weaning.

 

[Madeleine74]

UNC, I don't know the answers to those questions.

Hi Jilly! JLY is right around the corner. I know you follow that one closely.

 

[jumpstreet]

I'm fascinated by that case. I remember the house being boarded up still in the late 80s. I loved Fatal Vision (both the book and movie). Here is a great site for that case:

http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/

Note: The site has everything from the case. Be careful if you go searching around on it. It has crime scene photos and autopsy photos as well. It's heartbreaking.

Thanks for the link. During the BC case, when they were presenting some of the evidence collected from the residence and some not collected (ie, shop-vac, pulling up the hardwoods in the foyer for more detailed forensic collection, etc), I wondered about the JM case.

I recalled too that that the JM house was sealed for many years, and even I believe LE went back after some years (with more technology), and found some additional evidence. I also recall (vaguely) that the jury (at least one of them) got to tour the premises.

I wondered about why sometimes places are sealed (for long time (years in JM example)), and other times released very quickly (in BC case maybe it was less than 1 week?). Why not seal it until a conviction is achieved?

There's probably a good reason (and related rules), but I wasn't sure what they were.

In the JM case it was definitely the crime scene, but I guess in the BC case the home was only the alleged crime scene.
Maybe in BC case that wasn't practical/constitutional, since they couldn't yet arrest him, and if they weren't going to arrest him, it would have been unreasonable (unconstitutional maybe?) to ask someone not even named as POI to move out indefinitely until the puzzle was fully solved.

 

[Madeleine74]

Jeffrey MacDonald domicile in Ft. Bragg was owned by the US Govt for military personnel housing. As such, they controlled it's use and could keep it unoccupied for as long as they wanted during the investigation. Their investigation, btw, occurred over a long period of time, with the civilian court finally indicting.

Different situation with BC house, privately owned, sealed only for a limited time during search warrant execution.

Apples / Oranges

 

[DB in FV]

The computer that was wiped was donated in April.

So it isn't one of the two towers that was seized during the search of the Cooper's home?