Post verdict discussion of evidence

[otto]

Who is saying BC didn't lie? He's a lying liar that lies.

Are all the lies coming from the custody deposition? Anyone that has been through a nasty divorce and custody dispute knows that affidavits are flying in both directions disputing what are presented as truthful facts. Depositions, or Examinations for Discovery, are very invasive questioning periods where completely unrelated questions are asked. It can be a very unpleasant experience, and I doubt anyone decides to provide all the information that is asked. For example, Brad claims that he doesn't know his nephew's name. I don't believe this. I think he is well aware of his nephew's name, but has no intention of dragging a preschooler into his mess.

Another point to consider is that stress interferes with memory. If Brad was under stress, he would have naturally had difficulties keeping everything straight in his head.

 

[momto3kids]

2 questions:

Does anyone know what happened to Steve Hale who was the PI for the defense? Wonder if it was $$ or had gut feeling of BC guilt...

Has it ever been determined what or why BC emailed NC on July 14th? I feel if it would benefit BC the defense would have pushed to have it disclosed.

 

[ncsu95]

So it isn't one of the two towers that was seized during the search of the Cooper's home?

No. No wiped computers were seized.

 

[Maja]

Latest mug shot of BC: http://www.wral.com/news/local/note...570541,9563376,9557010,3203553&ref_id=9563365

 

[momto3kids]

Latest mug shot of BC: http://www.wral.com/news/local/note...570541,9563376,9557010,3203553&ref_id=9563365

Perhaps he just had his exam?:floorlaugh: He has a smirk for some reason.

 

[Danielle59]

Perhaps he just had his exam?:floorlaugh: He has a smirk for some reason.

I know you think he did it, but is it really a funny thing for a man to be in jail for the remainder of his life? I find it quite disturbing that people think this is a funny situation.

 

[otto]

I know you think he did it, but is it really a funny thing for a man to be in jail for the remainder of his life? I find it quite disturbing that people think this is a funny situation.

I find the concept of life without parole - no hope for any type of rehabilitation - to be very disturbing. It gives the impression that professionals lack the skills to work with criminals, to try to put them on the right path. I'm obviously not an advocate of the death penalty, and always have hope that most of those people that make tremendous mistakes in their lives can become better people at some point before they are dead. Certainly some people are hopeless, but I see them as a minority requiring psychiatric care due to severe psychological disturbance.

 

[calgary123]

I know you think he did it, but is it really a funny thing for a man to be in jail for the remainder of his life? I find it quite disturbing that people think this is a funny situation.

Think how much happiness you would have felt were he acquitted. I'm certain you would have cheered the verdict. Its a pretty normal reaction to cheer the bad guy getting what he deserves, or to cheer the unjustly accused good guy attaining freedom (Shawshank Redemption, one of my favorite movies.) Hollywood has made it into an industry. Her emoticon demonstrates satisfaction that he is getting what he deserves, and I understand that. There were lots of people from his home town who also cheered the verdict. Twelve jurors thought he deserved it, and any one of them could have prevented the verdict of guilty of first degree murder.

From my point of view, since I know him, I see a photograph like that and think, wow, he's not doing well. He looks awful. It doesn't make me happy but that's because I know him. It gives me a sense of sadness, but also a feeling of justice. He had alternatives, I'm sure he considered them, but he let his dark emotions take hold. It appears he even considered killing himself, but then chose another option, one which was even more selfish.

The appeal process is going to take years in a case like this. I've seen the thread talking about timelines to have the appeal heard according to the court's normal procedures, but in a case like this it takes much longer. Look how long it took to get to trial when compared to the norm.

The best Brad can hope for is that the appeal judges decide that the trial judge made technical errors significant enough to warrant a new trial. That is extremely rare. His best shot was at the trial level.

 

[otto]

Think how much happiness you would have felt were he acquitted. I'm certain you would have cheered the verdict. Its a pretty normal reaction to cheer the bad guy getting what he deserves, or to cheer the unjustly accused good guy attaining freedom.

<snipped fo emphasis>

I disagree with this. I think that Brad could well be guilty, but I don't think the case was solid. In fact, it appears, to some, that there were Judicial irregularities. I want to see transparency in the process, and I think that computer related rebuttal testimony should have been heard.

I would not rejoice if Brad were acquitted. I would have viewed it as a flaw in the evidence and a permanent question of whether he was guilty. The cell phone was argued to be "spoilation of evidence". That, on behalf of police, is a big problem. Tainted evidence should not be ignored in a murder trial. In fact, tainted evidence should be viewed as reasonable doubt. We don't know about the computer, because rebuttal testimony was considered prejucial (due to the witness not being on the list). Something seems fishy, that's all.

 

[otto]

Think how much happiness you would have felt were he acquitted. I'm certain you would have cheered the verdict. Its a pretty normal reaction to cheer the bad guy getting what he deserves, or to cheer the unjustly accused good guy attaining freedom (Shawshank Redemption, one of my favorite movies.) Hollywood has made it into an industry. Her emoticon demonstrates satisfaction that he is getting what he deserves, and I understand that. There were lots of people from his home town who also cheered the verdict. Twelve jurors thought he deserved it, and any one of them could have prevented the verdict of guilty of first degree murder.

From my point of view, since I know him, I see a photograph like that and think, wow, he's not doing well. He looks awful. It doesn't make me happy but that's because I know him. It gives me a sense of sadness, but also a feeling of justice. He had alternatives, I'm sure he considered them, but he let his dark emotions take hold. It appears he even considered killing himself, but then chose another option, one which was even more selfish.

The appeal process is going to take years in a case like this. I've seen the thread talking about timelines to have the appeal heard according to the court's normal procedures, but in a case like this it takes much longer. Look how long it took to get to trial when compared to the norm.

The best Brad can hope for is that the appeal judges decide that the trial judge made technical errors significant enough to warrant a new trial. That is extremely rare. His best shot was at the trial level.

Do you think he should make an application to be transferred to a Canadian penitentiary? He could teach computer skills to inmates in a Canadian prison. It's rare for someone to have life in prison in Canada, so there's more structure around rehabilitation - like teaching computer skills in prison. If that were possible, Brad would have to choose between prison in Ontario near his children, or prison in Alberta near his parents and brother. Since an appeal will be a couple of years (from what I'm reading here) and is very uncertain, shouldn't he appeal for transfer - sooner than later?

 

[calgary123]

double post

 

[calgary123]

Do you think he should make an application to be transferred to a Canadian penitentiary? He could teach computer skills to inmates in a Canadian prison. It's rare for someone to have life in prison in Canada, so there's more structure around rehabilitation - like teaching computer skills in prison. If that were possible, Brad would have to choose between prison in Ontario near his children, or prison in Alberta near his parents and brother. Since an appeal will be a couple of years (from what I'm reading here) and is very uncertain, shouldn't he appeal for transfer - sooner than later?

In one of the earlier trial day threads (I can't remember which, I think it was the same day the google search evidence was put in, or the day after) I commented that he is likely to try for a transfer. In Canada, a "life" sentence is 25 years and then you are eligible for parole. If he serves good time, he'd be out in 25 years for sure, and there is what is called the "faint hope" clause where you can apply to court to get parole in less than 25 years. He will have to wait until the appeal process is complete, and then he will have to convince both the NC government and the Canadian government to allow the transfer.

My understanding is that jails in the US are harsher than Canada, but I have no information to back that statement up.

 

[otto]

In one of the earlier trial day threads (I can't remember which, I think it was the same day the google search evidence was put in, or the day after) I commented that he is likely to try for a transfer. In Canada, a "life" sentence is 25 years and then you are eligible for parole. If he serves good time, he'd be out in 25 years for sure, and there is what is called the "faint hope" clause where you can apply to court to get parole in less than 25 years. He will have to wait until the appeal process is complete, and then he will have to convince both the NC government and the Canadian government to allow the transfer.

My understanding is that jails in the US are harsher than Canada, but I have no information to back that statement up.

US jails are harsher partially because the criminal justice system seems to deal with criminals as throw away people. The death penalty relies on the belief that some people should simply be euthanized, that they will never have value. The Canadian justice system caps sentences at 25 years (except for long term offender status) and offers structured rehabilitation (some prisoners refuse). Former Colonel Russell Williams, who is most certainly a serial killer, was not sentenced to prison until he is dead. I think there is hope for rehabilitation with him, but that will be decided after he has served 25 years. Particularly dangerous criminals are given long term offender status (Bernardo, Olsen, etc), but Brad doesn't fall into that category. If Brad were transferred, would he be subjected to Canadian laws, or would the "prison until you're dead" sentence have to be enforced in Canada?

I missed the entire week of testimony where the computer search came out.

 

[otto]

calgary123, I finally had a chance to read the affidavit of the girlfriend from 1999 where Brad did not provide the correct last name (like he did with his parent's middle names, the full name of his nephew, and others). I think that Brad did not want to involve others in his mess, so he avoided (as much as possble) providing detailed information about people not connected with the murder of his wife. After all, a girlfriend from 1998 and a trial in 2011? I can understand why he wouldn't provide a correct name. The girlfriend did come forward and say that after she moved in with Brad in 1998, he was verbally abusive, and that when they split he disappeared for three days and then had moved into another apartment in the building. Someone told her that he was going into her apartment while she was out, so she broke his/her lease and moved away. Brad continued living in the building.

Nancy and Brad were both dating until Brad was offered a position in North Carolina. That was the same year that the rich Canadian guy Brett divorced his wife. Brad and Nancy chose to have a civil wedding so she could move to N.C. with Brad. It seems that when they first arrived they could only afford one car and a modest living, and Nancy was more interested in a guy in Florida. In no time they were double mortgaged to the eyeballs, driving preschoolers around in a Mercedes, buying $300 jeans or $150 dresses for children and complaining because preschooler manicures and pedicures were suddenly (after serving divorce papers) unaffordable. Nancy was back in touch with that rich Canadian guy after serving divorce papers, as well as the guy she had a one night stand with on Halloween.

Was he abusive?

 

[otto]

The big question about the renewed frequent contact between JP and Nancy; so intimate that it required meeting in person, is the consequences of their one night stand. Child support of one child is about 2/3 two children. That is, two children from two fathers is more lucrative than two children from one father. With handsome child support arrangements, even a single mother can be attractive to men looking for a roof over their head or with an expensive lifestyle.

I wonder why JP has never bothered to figure it out ... or has he slept with so many women that he'd rather not know.

 

[otto]

Did he pursue her after she moved away from the apt bldg where he lived before she moved in with him, and wasn't the relationship break at the same time as the death in her family, not before or after? They broke up after a year, he was verbally abusive, he moved out of hthe apt, she broke his lease and moved away and he kept living in the bldg? Was he stalking her or trying to get her out of his apartment?

 

[iucpa]

Open question for those who see reasonable doubt in the case as presented:
Had Google corroborated that the search was from the laptop at the reported time, would that remove your reasonable doubt?

Question for the BDI: if you see concrete evidence the google search was planted, would you believe he is innocent?

 

[BrownRice]

Do you think he should make an application to be transferred to a Canadian penitentiary? He could teach computer skills to inmates in a Canadian prison. It's rare for someone to have life in prison in Canada, so there's more structure around rehabilitation - like teaching computer skills in prison. If that were possible, Brad would have to choose between prison in Ontario near his children, or prison in Alberta near his parents and brother. Since an appeal will be a couple of years (from what I'm reading here) and is very uncertain, shouldn't he appeal for transfer - sooner than later?

I would think it's a moot point to be transferred to Ontario. NC's family would have hell freeze over before bringing the kids to prison, imo.

I have no problem with a life sentence for someone convicted of killing a spouse. This type of punishment isn't for rehab - it's to never see the light of day again from the outside of a prison cell. If it was a conviction of something less than murder (non-violent), then I'm all for rehab. Not murder or rape though.

 

[gritguy]

Question for the BDI: if you see concrete evidence the google search was planted, would you believe he is innocent?

It would not tell me he is innocent (even a guilty person can be framed), but it would indicate to me the quality of the verdict would be compromised.

 

[jumpstreet]

... respectfully snipped ...
Its a pretty normal reaction to cheer the bad guy getting what he deserves, or to cheer the unjustly accused good guy attaining freedom (Shawshank Redemption, one of my favorite movies.) Hollywood has made it into an industry.
... respectfully snipped..

Yeah, it's a great movie. Earlier on this thread (right after first mugshot was released), I posted a photo of Tim Robbins (Andy Dufresne), and suggested maybe he could be asked to play BC in the movie version of this case.