Ransom wars: Episode V The IDI strikes back!

[voynich]

The rn, What's in there?
Only what you take with you.

Hmm, are you a tadpole --- or a monk? :crazy:

Hi voynich.

Very much enjoyed reading your rn comparative, as outlined.
Lots to consider. Lots of historical kidnappings, many commonalities, some rn more like formal letters. and share that type of structure.
and many of the rn seem absurd.

Thanks, and yes some RN's are like formal letters, which is why I find Cherokee's analysis to be unconvincing --- they fall apart when applied to other historical letters.

Was it Richard Heirens that wrote the note out of guilt to give the parents a sense of hope?

Considering his crimes, they say sociopaths don't feel guilt. Jeffrey Dahmer though did seem remorseful if you can believe it.


The BJM kidnapping was just horrific, Unimaginable at the time, I saw the movie long ago.
Not the first of it's kind.

Yes, but she's still alive. I guess I regard horrific as being tortured and murdered.

Come to read that "June Robles, 6, abducted in Tucson, AZ, Apr. 25, 1934. Missing for 19 days after ransom note sent to parents. Found alive in iron cage buried in the desert. No arrests made."
http://www.history.com/encyclopedia.do?articleId=226762


awesome list.

The Mattson kidnapping, also has a general comparative with respect to the ransom note. "Initially, it appeared to be rambling and incoherent, but a closer analysis showed the ransom note to be well written and succinct." The rn was generic?
http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&file_id=8028


"The price is 28,000 10000 in fives and 10s 18000 50 & 100s. Old bills pleasd no new ones. Put ad in Seattle Times personal colum read Mable -- What's your new address Tim. Put this ad Times no other paper. If no answer from you within week price gos up double and doubl that each week after. Dont fail & I wont't. The boy is safe. Tim" (The Seattle Star).

story is fascinating, he made an attempt on another family.

The son was found murdered and dead for some time.
So if your child is kidnapped, and the RN states s/he is "safe" "alive" "please give us money we will return safely" well I'd say that is not very good odds,



lindberg baby.
gut=good
german, ESL.

Thanks for reading. Yep.

Ames if you're interested, read this
[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindbergh_kidnapping[/ame]

 

[Tadpole12]

voynich,
here's another good link re historical kidnappings, Kidnap Art
http://www.patterson-smith.com/kidnapArt.htm

 

[voynich]

voynich,
here's another good link re historical kidnappings, Kidnap Art
http://www.patterson-smith.com/kidnapArt.htm

Interesting link.

 

[BBB167893]

Not at all. Bring it up whenever you wish. The DNA has nothing to do with the RN.

Not just that, but as for this idea that it innocently got there that night--that's just it. We can't be sure it WAS from that night. DNA can't be dated. It's not like a tree where you can saw it in half and count the rings. Indeed, given the degenerated state it was in, I'd say it WASN'T from that night.

 

[BBB167893]

I remained astonished by both IDI and RDI here @ ws at very little reference to
Forensic linguistics By Gerald R. McMenamin, Dongdoo Choi

http://www.webbsleuths.com/cgi-bin/dcf/dcboard.cgi?az=printer_format&om=611&forum=DCForumID101

New legal requirements for forensic science evidence requires the expert
witness to provide a basis for an opinion that is quantifiable, McMenamin said.
The database can serve that role, he said, by providing a basis to identify a
specific author by writing style, similar to DNA tests that rely on chemistry,
although the social sciences or human behavior are less predictable, he said.

Probability of identifying a specific author improves when a document contains a
combination of unusual factors that were extremely rare in the database,
McMenamin said. He cited one example, where only one letter writer from the
sample of 1,200 used 001 to signify the year 2001. That, combined with other
unusual usage of grammar, punctuation or sentence structure make it easier to
pinpoint a specific author, he said.

McMenamin is a recognized scholar in stylistics and an internationally known
forensic linguist. He regularly serves as a consultant in criminal and civil cases,
including the high-profile Unabomber and JonBenet Ramsey cases.



http://linguistlist.org/people/personal/get-personal-page2.cfm?PersonID=13841


Name: Gerald R. McMenamin
Institution: California State University, Fresno
Email: click here to access email
Linguistic Field(s): Sociolinguistics
Text/Corpus Linguistics
Forensic Linguistics
Subject Language(s): Spanish
Postal Address: 21143 E Weldon Ave.
Tivy Valley
Sanger, CA
USA 93657
Phone: 559-787-9752
Fax: 559-787-9653
Selected Publications: Forensic Stylistics, Elsevier 1993
Forensic Linguistics, CRC Press, 2002
Announced on LINGUIST - Perspectives in Linguistics
Reviewed on LINGUIST - Perspectives in Linguistics
Courses Taught:

Sociolinguistics
Stylistics

Well, first of all, voynich, if you're using THAT site for information, you're in a lot of trouble. And I speak from personal experience on that.

But moreover, to me, it just doesn't seem like it goes anywhere. You have two linguistic analyses: one official, one not.

 

[BBB167893]

Right, I do believe that JR dicated parts of the RN to Patsy, and then Patsy threw in her two cents, when she should have just left it alone. Maybe THEN it would have been more believable.

:clap:

IMO...at that particular time, he didn't think that they would get away with it. SO, IMO...he wasn't trying to deflect attention away from Patsy. He is the one that grabbed the note pad and handed it to officers in the first place. I believe that he thought that it was over with at that point...and so he was just focusing on trying to deflect attention away from HIMSELF. At that point and time...he was probably thinking..."The heck with Patsy, I need to save my own behind now". Either that...or he was thinking at that time....that he would try to pin it on LHP, the housekeeper, or some other woman, like PW (Priscilla White). He threw both of them under the bus so fast...with friends like the Ramseys...who needs enemies. Go back and read John's interview...and see how many ways he tries to make PW suspicious looking. It is RIDICULOUS!!!

Treachery is the way of the Sith. I'm surprised our Master Jedi doesn't know that.

 

[BBB167893]

I definitely think there should be a court order mandating those phone records, linwood notwithstanding. If they contain calls incriminating for the R's I definitely want to know about this.

I do wonder from a legal standpoint -- given client-attorney privilege if R's phone records show they contacted Linwood around 1am, whether this could be released. I can't imagine an innocent scenario, short of the intruder using their phone, if the R's called that night.

Pardon me, but Lin Wood was not involved in this case until 2000. So they couldn't have called him. You're confusing him with the defense attorneys. Wood is not a defense atty; he's a litigation atty. And apparently, the defense attys didn't like him.

 

[BBB167893]

So why not turn PR in?

I'd like to put in my 2 cents. For the same reason CEOs employ hatchet men: to have clean consciences when they throw someone to the wolves. This way he can still be the knight in shining armor.

Did PR think JR was probably thinking..."The heck with Patsy, I need to save my own behind now He threw both of them under the bus ".

I doubt it. I honestly don't think PR ever allowed herself to realize what kind of man JR was (is). To put it another way, denial's not just a river in Egypt.

If so, why didn't PR turn on JR to save her own behind?

The same reason many women don't dump abusive husbands or boyfriends, would be my guess.

How would you rule out an alternative explanation -- that while the RN says SFF, JR, who knew nothing of the RN prior to 6am, did not believe SFF, and based on its information such as bonus, sincerely and honestly and innocently believed it was an inside job?

Many RDI's think that the RN contains warnings of contacting LE resulting in JB death as a way to explain their JB's death -- we contacted LE and friends, and look! she's dead.

You just nailed it. With me, at least.

We warn you for making anyding public or for notify the Police
Do you think the parents of this RN, if it is indeed a real RN and not a fake, notified the police? And if they did, would this be used to backwards rationalize their child's death, on the grounds they violated this warning?

The police is ONE thing, the neighborhood coffee-klatch is something else altogether!

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Not just that, but as for this idea that it innocently got there that night--that's just it. We can't be sure it WAS from that night. DNA can't be dated. It's not like a tree where you can saw it in half and count the rings. Indeed, given the degenerated state it was in, I'd say it WASN'T from that night.

We can be sure. There is extremely high confidence that the DNA was deposited that night.

Matching DNA in three (3) places on two (2) separate articles of clothing JBR was wearing that night. In one of the places, it was mixed with bleeding from that night. Therefore, it is exponentially more likely to be from that night. That is the WHOLE POINT behind the DA's revelation that the R's were not involved in the murder of their daughter.

If the DNA was there, in the way the news has reported it, then the conclusion is a rational one, not political.

Since 2008, it is considered to be highly likely that JBR was assaulted by an unknown male intruder who owns the DNA.

 

[BBB167893]

We can be sure. There is extremely high confidence that the DNA was deposited that night.

It would help if that "extremely high confidence" wasn't already fully ingrained by then. Remember when I recommended you to read what Mike Kane had to say on the case? (You never told me how that went, BTW.) Well, one of them was quite important.

Matching DNA in three (3) places on two (2) separate articles of clothing JBR was wearing that night. In one of the places, it was mixed with bleeding from that night. Therefore, it is exponentially more likely to be from that night.

According to Wood, yes.

That is the WHOLE POINT behind the DA's revelation that the R's were not involved in the murder of their daughter.

Yeah, I know what the point is.

If the DNA was there, in the way the news has reported it, then the conclusion is a rational one, not political.

Only someone not aware of the political machinations would say that. Even Craig Silverman wouldn't take it at face-value.

Since 2008, it is considered to be highly likely that JBR was assaulted by an unknown male intruder who owns the DNA.

We'll see. I find it helps to take a holistic view of the case.

 

[JMO8778]

you can only put so much lipstick on the pig (a.k.a. the fake 'ransom note').truth is,it's just another note,like there have been in other cases,written to direct LE off track and away from someone close to the victim;in this case..her mother.
John did as he was told in the note by Patsy,that is,not to get smart and grow a brain (because she had something on him and boy was it good!!).And yes,he knew from the inside family joke (his southern common sense !) that she had said it and she meant it.
MOO!

 

[DeeDee249]

We can't be sure about the DNA. Having a high level of confidence is not the same as being sure. And anyone studying this case has a right to have a "pretty good idea" about anything they want to. Even you.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Maybe you can't be sure. I personally didn't need the DNA evidence to believe IDI, remember? Lets just say that IDI has been corroborated by the evidence, yet again.

PR misspelled 'advise' in her exemplars, in both right and left hand samples, and RDI's excuse no. 23 "she misspelled deliberately" they pulled out of their hat after only seconds of consideration. You can file that excuse with 'the DNA found smeared all over the underwear JBR was wearing at the time was degraded' or something like that.

 

[DeeDee249]

Got just the place to file it, too.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Only someone not aware of the political machinations would say that. Even Craig Silverman wouldn't take it at face-value.

Political 'machinations' are not relevant, if the conclusion is sound. IOW it doesn't matter who thinks what as long as the facts are correct and the conclusion is drawn from the facts.

Fact is, DNA was found in three locations on two pieces of underwear JBR was wearing the night she was murdered. Some of the DNA was mixed with blood. That means the DNA was deposited there that night. Thats very compelling evidence that an intruder killed JBR.

What is RDI's explanation for this DNA? How did it get to these places innocently?

Further, what was RDI's explanation for PR spelling 'advize' on both her right and left hand exemplars, while the RN author spelled 'advise'? Also bussiness vs business?

 

[BBB167893]

Political 'machinations' are not relevant, if the conclusion is sound.

I realize that. What I'm trying to say is that if you have someone who has already made up their mind, their conclusions have to be scrutinized. Remember when I asked you if you'd read what Mike Kane had to say? Well, one of the more important things was that, by the time he came on the case, the DA's office was already welded to the IDI theory. Think about it, man.

IOW it doesn't matter who thinks what as long as the facts are correct and the conclusion is drawn from the facts.

Problem is, the conclusion came first.

Fact is, DNA was found in three locations on two pieces of underwear JBR was wearing the night she was murdered. Some of the DNA was mixed with blood. That means the DNA was deposited there that night.

Not necessarily. It just means the DNA was when the blood hit it. That's not an "RDI story," either. Henry Lee said the same thing.

Thats very compelling evidence that an intruder killed JBR.

Mm. I have some compelling evidence of my own.

What is RDI's explanation for this DNA? How did it get to these places innocently?

Well, I don't know what "RDI's" explanation is. I keep trying to tell you we're not monolithic. As for myself, personally, I keep coming back to the question "Did JB put it there herself?"

Further, what was RDI's explanation for PR spelling 'advize' on both her right and left hand exemplars, while the RN author spelled 'advise'? Also bussiness vs business?

Again, we're not monolithic. As for myself, I don't really think about it that much. But since you've forced me into a corner, I'll indulge you. I realize my methods may not seem scientific, but they've always done well by me. And I try (difficult, as I admit) to put myself there as it was happening. And I keep asking myself, "how good would my spelling be in a mess like that?"

 

[JMO8778]

Further, what was RDI's explanation for PR spelling 'advize' on both her right and left hand exemplars, while the RN author spelled 'advise'? Also bussiness vs business?

same way Patsy knew how to spell her name as Patsy Ramsey and not Patzy Ramzey.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Again, we're not monolithic. As for myself, I don't really think about it that much. But since you've forced me into a corner, I'll indulge you. I realize my methods may not seem scientific, but they've always done well by me. And I try (difficult, as I admit) to put myself there as it was happening. And I keep asking myself, "how good would my spelling be in a mess like that?"

Maybe you should.

Its obvious that PR forgetting how to spell words, deliberately misspelling words, or JBR moving the DNA around by herself are just random RDI rationalizations for IDI-favoring pheonomenon.

The fact that these are just random rationalizations wouldn't be so obvious if there were even an iota of evidence to support the ideas. For example, if PR spelled the same word two different ways in ANY of her exemplars, then that would be an iota.

The same foreign male DNA found on an item JBR wasn't wearing at the time she was murdered would be another iota.

And I keep asking myself, "how good would my spelling be in a mess like that?"

You don't really keep asking yourself that question, do you? Really? Did you start asking yourself that question before or after you read about the 'advise' misspelling?

 

[voynich]

:clap:



Treachery is the way of the Sith. I'm surprised our Master Jedi doesn't know that.

The Sith are extinct -- master kai al mundo

btw have you had a stwar wars-jonbenet murder myster on any forum? anyone else?

i might start bringing in quinlan vos (my fav)

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Problem is, the conclusion came first.

No it didn't. First, the DNA test was performed. Then, based on the results, the R's received a letter from the DA.