Ransom wars: Episode V The IDI strikes back!

[BBB167893]

Maybe you should.

Maybe I should at that.

Its obvious that PR forgetting how to spell words, deliberately misspelling words, or JBR moving the DNA around by herself are just random RDI rationalizations for IDI-favoring pheonomenon.

The fact that these are just random rationalizations wouldn't be so obvious if there were even an iota of evidence to support the ideas. For example, if PR spelled the same word two different ways in ANY of her exemplars, then that would be an iota.

Just remember, there was only ONE person who changed their handwriting after the crime.

The same foreign male DNA found on an item JBR wasn't wearing at the time she was murdered would be another iota.

My memory's not fully clear on this, but I keep thinking that Henry Lee said he found something like that.

You don't really keep asking yourself that question, do you? Really? Did you start asking yourself that question before or after you read about the 'advise' misspelling?

Maybe not that EXACT question, but I have always asked myself "just how clearly would I be thinking in that spot?" so basically, yes.

The Sith are extinct -- master ki adi mundi

That's what you think. (BTW, don't change the subject.)

btw have you had a stwar wars-jonbenet murder myster on any forum? anyone else?

I don't think I get what you mean.

i might start bringing in quinlan vos (my fav)

Very well. I'll match him with Count Dooku.

[quote-Holdontoyourhat]No it didn't. First, the DNA test was performed. Then, based on the results, the R's received a letter from the DA.[/quote]

Oh, give me a break, HOTYH! Haven't you read a word I've said? Moreover, haven't you read the statements of people who were there? I'd be more than happy to go over it with you! I'm sure Tricia and rashomon will, as well, if they ever come around this way.

 

[Ames]

<< Respectfully snipped>>

Just remember, there was only ONE person who changed their handwriting after the crime.

And the same person that changed their handwriting ALSO started typing some of their correspondences. Sounds just a "wee bit" suspicious to me, what about you, SD?

 

[DeeDee249]

We have discussed before some ways the DNA could have been transferred innocently. But I'll repeat them here.

The touch DNA came from skin cells. JB was known not to be a great hand-washer. If she'd touched anything that day like a doorknob or someone's hand, a toy, spoon, etc. -skin cells from someone else could transfer to her own hand and gotten on the waistband of her panties and longjohns. (that is where it was found- NOT on the legs where someone pulling clothes on or off a dead or sleeping child would grab).

Both parents admitted undressing/dressing JB that night. (not to mention the staging-redressing). They were at a party- presumably they touched bathroom door knobs, etc. as well as shaking hands with people. If the skin cells were on one of them, they could have transferred to JB that way.

One thing about DNA- and it's been said before- it can not be dated or aged. It cannot be proved when it was left or how old the donor was. With the exception of semen, menstrual blood or other fluids that indicate the person was over the age of puberty and before the age of menopause. Even then- that is a pretty wide scope.
The "unknown male" DNA donor could have been a child at the party or one of the R kids friends who were said (by the Rs themselves) to have visited the R house that day. If JB didn't wash her hands, the DNA would stay there until she did.
I have never seen where any of the male then-CHILDREN at the Ramsey or White house were tested against this DNA. Of course, the kids are grown now but the DNA hasn't changed. The RST always ominously refers to "Unknown Male DNA". They never mention the fact that it could belong to CHILD.

 

[JMO8778]

And the same person that changed their handwriting ALSO started typing some of their correspondences.

and some IDI's act like it's difficult, if not impossible, for Patsy to misspell a word on purpose.but of course it wasn't calculus or some difficult equation,and seeing Patsy was a journalism major,it's just downright silly to think she would not have known how to spell such a simple word.esp. a word associated with journalism,for example,something commonly heard, like 'and the President was advised to...'.

 

[Ames]

We have discussed before some ways the DNA could have been transferred innocently. But I'll repeat them here.

The touch DNA came from skin cells. JB was known not to be a great hand-washer. If she'd touched anything that day like a doorknob or someone's hand, a toy, spoon, etc. -skin cells from someone else could transfer to her own hand and gotten on the waistband of her panties and longjohns. (that is where it was found- NOT on the legs where someone pulling clothes on or off a dead or sleeping child would grab).

Both parents admitted undressing/dressing JB that night. (not to mention the staging-redressing). They were at a party- presumably they touched bathroom door knobs, etc. as well as shaking hands with people. If the skin cells were on one of them, they could have transferred to JB that way.

One thing about DNA- and it's been said before- it can not be dated or aged. It cannot be proved when it was left or how old the donor was. With the exception of semen, menstrual blood or other fluids that indicate the person was over the age of puberty and before the age of menopause. Even then- that is a pretty wide scope.
The "unknown male" DNA donor could have been a child at the party or one of the R kids friends who were said (by the Rs themselves) to have visited the R house that day. If JB didn't wash her hands, the DNA would stay there until she did.
I have never seen where any of the male then-CHILDREN at the Ramsey or White house were tested against this DNA. Of course, the kids are grown now but the DNA hasn't changed. The RST always ominously refers to "Unknown Male DNA". They never mention the fact that it could belong to CHILD.

Exactly!! Touch DNA is so sensitive...that if I shook your hand and then I picked up a knife and killed someone with it, then YOUR touch DNA would also be on the handle. Just because the longjohns had some sort of Unknown Male DNA...it doesn't mean that it was left that night. We don't know WHO left it or WHEN...or if it was transference.

I posted a story here about a lady in England, that was the main suspect in about ten murders, because they found her DNA at everyone of the crimescenes. WELL...it turned out, that the lady worked in a cotton bud factory. The same factory that made the swabs and Q-tips used by police to collect evidence with. It turns out, the woman was completely innocent. So...it can..and does happen. This also proves that a worker in the panty factory, where JB's size 12 Bloomies were made, could have deposited their "TOUCH DNA" somehow. Let's not forget, that these panties had never been washed. SOOOO...the sensitive "Touch DNA" from the panties could have easily been transferred to the longjohn waist band. It says alot to me...that only the longjohn WAIST BAND had the "touch dna"...and what part of the longjohns would actually come in contact with the panties the most, and the easiest.....the waistband, of course. Not to mention the fact that they were three sizes to big for her. (She wore a size 6, and children's panties come in sizes 2,4,6,8,10, 12 and 14...all even numbers). SO, if you put on tight longjohns over a pair of panties that are three sizes too big, the panties are going to bunch up around the waist area. THE EXACT location of the long john waistband....where the "Touch DNA" was found.

To prove how big the size 12 Bloomies would have been on JB, click on this link..and go to post #5.

[ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7128"](Girls 12-14) "Bloomies" Modeled On A Six-Year-Old The Same Size As JonBenet - Forums For Justice[/ame]


Jayelles, over a FFJ made a model of her daughter. She was...at the time...the same age, height and weight as JB was when she died. Then Jayelles put a size 6 pair of Bloomies..the EXACT style and make of the ones that JB was wearing when she died...on the model. She then placed a size 12 on the model. Look at the picture, and then imagine what would happen to those panties, if tight longjohns were placed over the top of them. (They would completely bunch up around the waist...where the waistband of the longjohns would have touched. Touch DNA could have been placed on the longjohns, through transference from the panties. And the "touch dna" found on the panties...COULD have possibly have came from a panty factory worker. OR...as you (DeeDee) stated, from JB's own hands).

 

[Ames]

and some IDI's act like it's difficult, if not impossible, for Patsy to misspell a word on purpose.but of course it wasn't calculus or some difficult equation,and seeing Patsy was a journalism major,it's just downright silly to think she would not have known how to spell such a simple word.esp. a word associated with journalism,for example,something commonly heard, like 'and the President was advised to...'.

Not only that....Patsy was a Journalism Major...AND the word advise is a FOURTH GRADE SPELLING WORD. I know that because I read it on the internet...all you have to do is Google it. There is NO WAY that a Journalism major isn't going to know how to spell a 4th grade spelling word...unless of course....she MEANT to. She knew exactly what she was doing when she put that Z in the word. IMO..she knew that she deliberately misspelled some words in the RN, so she was going to spell those words correctly in the sample. On the other hand, she knew that she had spelled the word advise correctly in the RN, so she picks that one to misspell in her sample. She thought that the handwriting experts would say...."Well, look here. Patsy could NOT have written that RN, because she spelled words correctly that the RN author misspelled, and she misspelled the word advise (advize) and the RN author spelled it correctly, so she COULDN'T have written that RN". Sadly, alot of IDI's believe this. The woman wasn't stupid...she knew what she was doing.

I also have to add...if it truly was a SFF, then IMO...THEY would have spelled the word advise...with a Z...ADVIZE. Because they are foreign, and they don't know any better. They would just spell it out the way that it sounded.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I also have to add...if it truly was a SFF, then IMO...THEY would have spelled the word advise...with a Z...ADVIZE. Because they are foreign, and they don't know any better. They would just spell it out the way that it sounded.

Maybe PR, under all that pressure, got mixed up and forgot she was writing her exemplars instead of the RN? She wanted to make it look like a SFF wrote her exemplars too?

 

[Ravyn]

Maybe PR, under all that pressure, got mixed up and forgot she was writing her exemplars instead of the RN? She wanted to make it look like a SFF wrote her exemplars too?

Now I'm trying to follow but I just got lost..Plz explain this post..

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Not only that....Patsy was a Journalism Major...AND the word advise is a FOURTH GRADE SPELLING WORD. I know that because I read it on the internet...all you have to do is Google it. There is NO WAY that a Journalism major isn't going to know how to spell a 4th grade spelling word...unless of course....she MEANT to. She knew exactly what she was doing when she put that Z in the word. IMO..she knew that she deliberately misspelled some words in the RN, so she was going to spell those words correctly in the sample. On the other hand, she knew that she had spelled the word advise correctly in the RN, so she picks that one to misspell in her sample. She thought that the handwriting experts would say...."Well, look here. Patsy could NOT have written that RN, because she spelled words correctly that the RN author misspelled, and she misspelled the word advise (advize) and the RN author spelled it correctly, so she COULDN'T have written that RN". Sadly, alot of IDI's believe this. The woman wasn't stupid...she knew what she was doing.

I also have to add...if it truly was a SFF, then IMO...THEY would have spelled the word advise...with a Z...ADVIZE. Because they are foreign, and they don't know any better. They would just spell it out the way that it sounded.

Handwriting experts hired by BPD compared PR's handwriting to that of the RN and came up with a negative match. Repeat, negative. In contrast to the other handwritten RN author LaMarca, who had a positive match.

I don't think they were that interested in spelling.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Now I'm trying to follow but I just got lost..Plz explain this post..

OK here goes.

Patsy Ramsey misspelled the word 'advise' in both her left and right hand exemplars. She spelled it with a 'z'. The RN author spelled the word correctly.

The RN author misspelled the word 'business'. Spelled it with four s's. Patsy Ramsey spelled it correctly in both her right and left hand exemplars.

IDI believes that the RN author and Patsy Ramsey are two different people and therefore naturally have two different spelling abilities.

RDI believes that the two misspellings are caused by inconsistent spelling under pressure and/or deliberate misspelling to throw off investigators.

 

[Ames]

OK here goes.

Patsy Ramsey misspelled the word 'advise' in both her left and right hand exemplars. She spelled it with a 'z'. The RN author spelled the word correctly.

The RN author misspelled the word 'business'. Spelled it with four s's. Patsy Ramsey spelled it correctly in both her right and left hand exemplars.

IDI believes that the RN author and Patsy Ramsey are two different people and therefore naturally have two different spelling abilities.

RDI believes that the two misspellings are caused by inconsistent spelling under pressure and/or deliberate misspelling to throw off investigators.

And IDI simply FORGET that Patsy was a Journalism MAJOR, and believe that she couldn't spell a FOURTH grade spelling word. Advise...is a 4th grade spelling word. Sorry...a Journalism major not knowing how to spell a fourth grade spelling word...just doesn't compute.

 

[Ames]

Handwriting experts hired by BPD compared PR's handwriting to that of the RN and came up with a negative match. Repeat, negative. In contrast to the other handwritten RN author LaMarca, who had a positive match.

I don't think they were that interested in spelling.

Any negative matches...IMO..was due to the fact that the Sharpie pen BLED, making it difficult to analyze. Several handwriting experts have already commented about this. That would be like trying to analyze something that was written in magic marker....a Sharpie and a Magic Marker are the same thing. They obviously just wanted to give her the benefit of a doubt. They couldn't be 100 percent sure, since the ink bled...so they decided to say that she didn't write it. IMO How many of these "experts" were hired by the BPD?

 

[BBB167893]

And the same person that changed their handwriting ALSO started typing some of their correspondences. Sounds just a "wee bit" suspicious to me, what about you, SD?

I didn't bring it up for my health!

Maybe PR, under all that pressure, got mixed up and forgot she was writing her exemplars instead of the RN?

You may be more right than you know. Don't forget a few things: one, that pressure you speak of is no joke. Just imagine it's you in a police station sweating it out. Heck, a few weeks ago, I had to go to the police station to report an attempt at fraud. I knew I hadn't done anything and I was still nervous. Two, who knows what condition she was in? By that I mean maybe she was under the influence of something.

Any negative matches...IMO..was due to the fact that the Sharpie pen BLED, making it difficult to analyze. Several handwriting experts have already commented about this.

I can think of one right off the top of my head!

That would be like trying to analyze something that was written in magic marker....a Sharpie and a Magic Marker are the same thing. They obviously just wanted to give her the benefit of a doubt. They couldn't be 100 percent sure, since the ink bled...so they decided to say that she didn't write it.

Actually, they DIDN'T say she didn't write it. They said they couldn't say she did with courtroom certainty. BIG difference!

 

[Ames]

<<snipped>>

Actually, they DIDN'T say she didn't write it. They said they couldn't say she did with courtroom certainty. BIG difference!

I do remember reading and hearing about that NOW...the part about COURTROOM CERTAINTY. THANK YOU for clarifying. That is what I get for giving Holdon the benefit of a doubt, and thinking that he actually knew what he was talking about.

 

[BBB167893]

I do remember reading and hearing about that NOW...the part about COURTROOM CERTAINTY. THANK YOU for clarifying. That is what I get for giving Holdon the benefit of a doubt, and thinking that he actually knew what he was talking about.

My pleasure.

 

[JMO8778]

Not only that....Patsy was a Journalism Major...AND the word advise is a FOURTH GRADE SPELLING WORD. I know that because I read it on the internet...all you have to do is Google it. There is NO WAY that a Journalism major isn't going to know how to spell a 4th grade spelling word...unless of course....she MEANT to. She knew exactly what she was doing when she put that Z in the word. IMO..she knew that she deliberately misspelled some words in the RN, so she was going to spell those words correctly in the sample. On the other hand, she knew that she had spelled the word advise correctly in the RN, so she picks that one to misspell in her sample. She thought that the handwriting experts would say...."Well, look here. Patsy could NOT have written that RN, because she spelled words correctly that the RN author misspelled, and she misspelled the word advise (advize) and the RN author spelled it correctly, so she COULDN'T have written that RN". Sadly, alot of IDI's believe this. The woman wasn't stupid...she knew what she was doing.

I also have to add...if it truly was a SFF, then IMO...THEY would have spelled the word advise...with a Z...ADVIZE. Because they are foreign, and they don't know any better. They would just spell it out the way that it sounded.

indeed,and they probably would have made other mistakes too,such as 'we has your daughter',and so on.the note just wasn't the way a foreigner would talk or write.ESL or not!! (that one doesn't even walk with crutches!).nor would they have cared or not about whether JB had a 'proper burial' or that John was 'rested',or that the money was in a brown ppr bag and other such ridiculous details that are so womanly and motherly.I'm surprised she didn't tell him to wear a heavy coat and pack a lunch!!!

Something that is very telling in the note,IMO, is this part:
Don't try to grow a brain John. You are not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult. Don't underestimate us John. Use that good southern common sense of yours.
It is up to you now John!
----------------------------------------------------------------

..don't think that 'killing will be difficult'???? kill what??? the author had already stated
'your daughter' five times previous to that line.so why not again include 'YOUR DAUGHTER' after that,since she was supposedly the target,and the one the note was written about?? It doesn't make any sense.It's a glaring omission,IMO.

So to analyze those lines,here's what I think:

Don't try to grow a brain John.(don't get wise,don't even THINK of turning her in!) You are not the only fat cat around (IOW-she was just as big as he was,because she had something on him!) so don't think that killing (you...taking YOU down!!) will be difficult. Don't underestimate us John.(literally,she and John!)
Use that good southern common sense of yours.(inside family joke,as we all know).
It is up to you now John!(it's all in your hands now,you can pull his off,you simply MUST!!)

 

[voynich]

----------------------------------------------------------------

..don't think that 'killing will be difficult'???? kill what??? the author had already stated
'your daughter' five times previous to that line.so why not again include 'YOUR DAUGHTER' after that,since she was supposedly the target,and the one the note was written about?? It doesn't make any sense.It's a glaring omission,IMO.

So to analyze those lines,here's what I think:

[/COLOR] Don't try to grow a brain John.(don't get wise,don't even THINK of turning her in!) You are not the only fat cat around (IOW-she was just as big as he was,because she had something on him!) so don't think that killing (you...taking YOU down!!) will be difficult. Don't underestimate us John.(literally,she and John!)
Use that good southern common sense of yours.(inside family joke,as we all know).
It is up to you now John!(it's all in your hands now,you can pull his off,you simply MUST!!)


[/QUOTE]

I agree the threat implies that John = fat cat, and "killing will be difficult" means "killing john won't be difficult" I'm not entirely convinced that R wrote this. an intruder could be threatening John with such words.

 

[JMO8778]

complete with an inside family joke? I just don't see that as being an intruder.(with Patsy's handwriting to boot).and advising someone to be rested, and including such minor details as brown bags,attache cases and proper burials is extremely feminine.
who else besides the parents would be worried about a proper burial?same one who wrapped JB up in the blanket,in such a parental way.intruders don't care.

 

[BBB167893]

complete with an inside family joke? I just don't see that as being an intruder.(with Patsy's handwriting to boot).and advising someone to be rested, and including such minor details as brown bags,attache cases and proper burials is extremely feminine.
who else besides the parents would be worried about a proper burial?same one who wrapped JB up in the blanket,in such a parental way.intruders don't care.

Yeah, I mean an intruder could have written that, but not when you look at the big picture.

 

[JMO8778]

Yeah, I mean an intruder could have written that, but not when you look at the big picture.

I agree,and esp.when you combine the note with the chronic abuse found on the body...the fact that Patsy wrote the note and she had something on John and he'd better keep his mouth shut or else (not try to grow a brain or she'd take him down,too)...comes glaringly through.and who else would throw in the inside family joke?? ..nobody but Patsy.