RDI Theories & Discussion ONLY!

[otg]

So it had been a while since I listened to PR 911 call. I was searching on youtube and came upon one. IT was looped and supposedly she is heard saying "they're going to arrest me." Anyone else rememebr this? TIA

I heard this in one video I watched/listened to and I thought it was BR that had said it. More like "Are they going to arrest me?"

Interesting. I'll have to listen to it again. Is it against the rules to link that here?

Landonsmom, it is not against the rules to post a Youtube link.

Some people have reported to hear either PR or BR saying the phrase, "They're gonna arrest me." From where it is alleged to have occurred in the recording, I isolated it and put up a video showing where it supposedly happens. The problem is (if I understood correctly where it supposedly occurs) that it is in the same location that BR's voice can be heard before it is cut off. I think this demonstrates what we've talked about before: pareidolia or folie à deux. If you listen to it thinking ahead of time that it says one thing, your mind hears that when you listen to it.

Below is the Youtube video showing where it is supposed to occur:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rLhjhM0HBE

 

[Tawny]

Thanks otg!

It's one of those up-for-debate things definitely.

Personally, I hear the inflection at the end as though it's a question, and it sounds young, IMO.

 

[otg]

Thanks otg!

It's one of those up-for-debate things definitely.

Personally, I hear the inflection at the end as though it's a question, and it sounds young, IMO.

I agree with you on all points, Tawny. One of our posters, who has more experience than I do with recordings, has been working on technically analyzing the recording for about a month now (This is no one's full time-job -- even including anyone at BPD, unfortunately). Hopefully, when he comes up with something worth posting, he'll update us with what he's found on the 911 thread.

 

[Tawny]

I look forward to that!

 

[txsvicki]

All I hear is the 911 person saying Patsy? Several times.

 

[redheadedgal]

So it had been a while since I listened to PR 911 call. I was searching on youtube and came upon one. IT was looped and supposedly she is heard saying "they're going to arrest me." Anyone else rememebr this? TIA

I heard this in one video I watched/listened to and I thought it was BR that had said it. More like "Are they going to arrest me?"

Landonsmom, it is not against the rules to post a Youtube link.

Some people have reported to hear either PR or BR saying the phrase, "They're gonna arrest me." From where it is alleged to have occurred in the recording, I isolated it and put up a video showing where it supposedly happens. The problem is (if I understood correctly where it supposedly occurs) that it is in the same location that BR's voice can be heard before it is cut off. I think this demonstrates what we've talked about before: pareidolia or folie à deux. If you listen to it thinking ahead of time that it says one thing, your mind hears that when you listen to it.

Below is the Youtube video showing where it is supposed to occur:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rLhjhM0HBE

how have i never read about this before???!!! :tantrum:

i hear the same thing tawny does... young voice w/ inflection/question...

 

[Chelly]

I agree with you on all points, Tawny. One of our posters, who has more experience than I do with recordings, has been working on technically analyzing the recording for about a month now (This is no one's full time-job -- even including anyone at BPD, unfortunately). Hopefully, when he comes up with something worth posting, he'll update us with what he's found on the 911 thread.

No 911 recording analysis, I guess?

 

[mcfearless]

Forgive me if this has been discussed, but I am rereading Steve Thomas's book and he mentions that john was calm, then was unaccounted for for an hour, and then was agitated and upset. IIRC JB was found shortly thereafter, by john.

This is making me wonder: could some of the staging have taken place during that hour? do you think JB's body was stashed somewhere else (possibly in the basement, just not staged as it was) and John realized that if she was found like that they would know it wasn't a kidnapping? That could explain the weird panties and clothing because it was what was available to him (we know the underwear were from the basement, IIRC), and could also explain how he found her so fast, could it not have?

MOO, of course. But I'm curious about what others think.

 

[Venom]

Forgive me if this has been discussed, but I am rereading Steve Thomas's book and he mentions that john was calm, then was unaccounted for for an hour, and then was agitated and upset. IIRC JB was found shortly thereafter, by john.

This is making me wonder: could some of the staging have taken place during that hour? do you think JB's body was stashed somewhere else (possibly in the basement, just not staged as it was) and John realized that if she was found like that they would know it wasn't a kidnapping? That could explain the weird panties and clothing because it was what was available to him (we know the underwear were from the basement, IIRC), and could also explain how he found her so fast, could it not have?

MOO, of course. But I'm curious about what others think.

Good points. It is possible, but how would PR's fibers get into the knot of the ligature? Would he really think that he could do it without risking someone coming and looking for him?

 

[mcfearless]

Good points. It is possible, but how would PR's fibers get into the knot of the ligature? Would he really think that he could do it without risking someone coming and looking for him?

I think she was already bound when he moved her because I think that the bindings were related to how she died, so I'm toying with the possibility that she was just moved from one place to the other, though I'm not sure how much that would affect the integrity of her bindings...maybe depending on where she was stashed in relation to the room where she was found, when I get home I'm going to have to check all of the info I have on my computer wrt to house layout/basement layout and see if it would be possible.

I do think he felt somewhat untouchable in the situation, and that he may not have been afraid of someone coming looking for him because they'd already checked the basement. So I think it's possible that he would have felt confident he could do it.


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[Nom de plume]

I think she was already bound when he moved her because I think that the bindings were related to how she died, so I'm toying with the possibility that she was just moved from one place to the other, though I'm not sure how much that would affect the integrity of her bindings...maybe depending on where she was stashed in relation to the room where she was found, when I get home I'm going to have to check all of the info I have on my computer wrt to house layout/basement layout and see if it would be possible.

I do think he felt somewhat untouchable in the situation, and that he may not have been afraid of someone coming looking for him because they'd already checked the basement. So I think it's possible that he would have felt confident he could do it.


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Yes, I think it's not only possible, but probable that he moved her. FW never saw her when he looked in the WC earlier, and IMO, that white blanket should have shown up even without the lights on. Rigor & livor would have been set by then so there wouldn't be any evidence of her being moved. Personally, I just don't believe she was in there when FW looked, but that's JMO.

I don't think he did the ligature or any of that during his "absence", but he could have done some other things, like adding the blanket, doll, etc.

 

[dazeerae]

Yes, I think it's not only possible, but probable that he moved her. FW never saw her when he looked in the WC earlier, and IMO, that white blanket should have shown up even without the lights on. Rigor & livor would have been set by then so there wouldn't be any evidence of her being moved. Personally, I just don't believe she was in there when FW looked, but that's JMO.

I don't think he did the ligature or any of that during his "absence", but he could have done some other things, like adding the blanket, doll, etc.

Do you think she was in the basement in another room? Were there any rooms not searched in the basement? It seems very possible he was staging in that hour, but I don't have a theory as to what JR was doing.

 

[Nom de plume]

Do you think she was in the basement in another room? Were there any rooms not searched in the basement? It seems very possible he was staging in that hour, but I don't have a theory as to what JR was doing.

The crawl space wasn't searched that I'm aware of. There were also a couple of large closets IIRC.

If I were the killer, and didn't want her found, I'd have hidden her in the crawl space until I could dispose of her. OR until I decided that for whatever reason, I couldn't dispose of her, and would have to "find" her.

Anywhere else in the basement would have already been searched, and far too obvious. The WC was the logical place to "relocate" her since the light switch was so hard to find and there were no windows for outside light.

:dunno:

 

[DeeDee249]

Yes, I think it's not only possible, but probable that he moved her. FW never saw her when he looked in the WC earlier, and IMO, that white blanket should have shown up even without the lights on. Rigor & livor would have been set by then so there wouldn't be any evidence of her being moved. Personally, I just don't believe she was in there when FW looked, but that's JMO.

I don't think he did the ligature or any of that during his "absence", but he could have done some other things, like adding the blanket, doll, etc.

I agree. Of course, as far as rigor goes, she could have been very carefully moved, but if she was manipulated in any forceful way (such as removed from a closet or something that would have broken rigor, we would know. Once "broken" in a joint, rigor mortis will not re-form. She was in full rigor when brought up and when first seen and pronounced dead by the coroner.
I can see her further back in the wine cellar, which was L-shaped. If that was the case, FW may not have seen her or the white blanket when he looked in. He would have had to STEP inside and look to the left down into the longer part of the "L" shape to see her with only the ambient light from the area just outside the wine cellar. Later, JR could have moved her, possibly just by pulling the blanket with her body wrapped in it, along the floor.

 

[Nom de plume]

I agree. Of course, as far as rigor goes, she could have been very carefully moved, but if she was manipulated in any forceful way (such as removed from a closet or something that would have broken rigor, we would know. Once "broken" in a joint, rigor mortis will not re-form. She was in full rigor when brought up and when first seen and pronounced dead by the coroner.
I can see her further back in the wine cellar, which was L-shaped. If that was the case, FW may not have seen her or the white blanket when he looked in. He would have had to STEP inside and look to the left down into the longer part of the "L" shape to see her with only the ambient light from the area just outside the wine cellar. Later, JR could have moved her, possibly just by pulling the blanket with her body wrapped in it, along the floor.

I understand that DeeDee but I don't see why rigor would have necessarily been broken. It all depends on where she was and how she was moved, if she was moved at all.

 

[DeeDee249]

I understand that DeeDee but I don't see why rigor would have necessarily been broken. It all depends on where she was and how she was moved, if she was moved at all.

Yes- that is what I was saying. She may not have been moved at all- although I agree with you that FW should have been able to see the white blanket even in the ambient light from the area outside the WC. I believe the police even did a test for that and found a light-colored blanker could be seen. Rigor would not have been broken by gentle handling. But someone previously suggested her having been in a suitcase, etc and rigor would definitely have been broken if she had been folded or unfolded in any way. Yes, it does depend on where she was (if anywhere) and how she was moved.

 

[Tawny]

I wonder if LA and/or others had mentioned the use of dogs to find JBR, still thinking poss kidnapping, and that's when he realized wherever she was hidden, she'd be found, so HE had to move her and "find" her.

 

[Venom]

I see what you mean now. I though you meant staging her with dressing her.
Yes, it is possible that she was "slid" along. I think FW would have seen her earlier if she was there.

 

[ZBob]

I just listened to the James Kolar interview from December 2013 with Generation Why. It is very interesting and in hearing his words you really get a sense for how he is objectively looking at the evidence and various situations. It is worth a listen.

At the end they are discussing the Grand Jury indictments and he makes a comment that although I recall reading about it before, it struck me as having some real weight. The comment being that the GJ voted to indict the parents. As part of the GJ process, Lou Smit, who was probably one of the strongest supporters of an intruder theory presented his case to them. He sued for the right to present, won, and then presented. Yet, after hearing his impassioned case about IDI, the GJ still voted to indict the parents. I think that says something given the evidentiary facts that the GJ saw that we don't have visibility too and certainly makes a statement that they did not buy his theories.

 

[mcfearless]

I wonder if LA and/or others had mentioned the use of dogs to find JBR, still thinking poss kidnapping, and that's when he realized wherever she was hidden, she'd be found, so HE had to move her and "find" her.

According to ST there was a K9 unit on standby, so I think it's wholly possible that LA or someone else who was there mentioned the dogs, and he became anxious and went to move her so that he and not the dogs would be the one to find her. I think that based on how the case was being handled otherwise he felt (correctly, obviously) that if he was the one to find her he could get away with it.

Is it impossible that he could have at least partially redressed her (ie, the underwear)? I'm sort of developing a theory about the giant underwear and her real underwear but it hinges on whether it was possible for her to have been redressed partially.