"Reckless, irresponsible": Kansas teacher's "gay is same as murder" Facebook rant

[Nova]

It'd go like this: Christian parents would be outraged if they caught wind of it... especially where I live. They might take their kids out of school because of it, but many wouldn't care and just accept it. However, you can bet your supper that no one would tell him he couldn't say what he wanted to say about his religion. It would be protected to the millionth degree.

My purpose here is to point out why his remarks are not harmless. Whether he should be fired or otherwise disciplined is an issue between him, his principal and his school system.

I readily admit I don't know their rules or whether there is any action the school system can take.

 

[Nova]

To Soulmagent:

It ranks in God's eyes the same as murder, lying, stealing, or cheating.

Certainly lying and cheating are less severe; we don't usually punish them with death.

But the fact remains that ALL his comparison are to crimes against persons. Homosexuality is not such an offense. "One of these things is not like the others", as the children's books say.

Now either God is too stupid to make the distinction or some Christians are too stupid to read scripture with their critical faculties intact. Personally, I wouldn't want the latter teaching my grandchildren, but I realize that depending on district rules, there may be no recourse.

 

[Nova]

I realize that to many here, this is an academic issue. You find it amusing to play lawyer with the teacher's FB post, analyzing it literally to the point of disingenuousness and ignoring any suggestion that words may have contexts or consequences.

But to some of us, the equating of ourselves, our friends and our families to murderers is not just an abstract question of constitutional entitlement, it is an all too concrete matter of physical danger and even life and death.

I've been compared to a murderer for almost a half-century now, during which time I've never carried a weapon nor even raised my hand in anger. I'm sick of that $hit!

 

[Cappuccino]

I don't blame you for getting exasperated Nova. In another thread I'm reading about the most pathetic sentence, (30 days), being handed down to a man who harrassed his gay room mate to suicide, and in here rationalisations for a man comparing homosexuality to murder, lying, stealing, etc.

I realise the various issues involved in both threads are more complex than that, but the contrast is kinda sickening.

 

[Darly314]

A fool and his job are soon parted.

His equation of homosexuality and murder actively indicates that he would not be able to teach gay or lesbian students in a non-discriminatory manner. He has no place in public education.

Yes, we're free to state our opinion; but we're also liable for the beliefs we hold - especially those we express in public forums like Facebook.

Agreed. He should not share his warped beliefs with students.

 

[Nova]

Capp, I'll comment on the other thread over there. When I find it. Thanks for your comments here.

 

[nothingnew]

I'm wondering what would be the reaction of Christian fundamentalists if a teacher posted as his status something like "there is no god but Allah and Muhammed is his prophet".

Wonder if they'd be okay with him teaching their Christian kids in public school, if he said that publicly on his FB page, with students who could see it.

Seriously, if a parent cannot get off their phone or computer long enough to teach their OWN children some morals, values, how to read etc than I would be less inclined to listen to their moaning about *anything* a teacher is posting on some social website.

 

[sweetheart29]

I can try answer why it was compared to muder. Cause in the court system muder is just about as bad as you can get. But in God eyes a lier and a muder will be dealt with the same one is not wrose than the other. That is what I was raised to believe. I am not going to argue if it right or wrong. So being gay is not a crime that should be punished but (some belive it is a sin that will get punished by God for and that punish will the be the same that a muder will get. That punishment is hell if your not saved. Thats is what my church belives.

 

[SkewedView]

I realize that to many here, this is an academic issue. You find it amusing to play lawyer with the teacher's FB post, analyzing it literally to the point of disingenuousness and ignoring any suggestion that words may have contexts or consequences.

But to some of us, the equating of ourselves, our friends and our families to murderers is not just an abstract question of constitutional entitlement, it is an all too concrete matter of physical danger and even life and death.

I've been compared to a murderer for almost a half-century now, during which time I've never carried a weapon nor even raised my hand in anger. I'm sick of that $hit!

I find this whole thing to be quite the opposite of amusing. I do not like to see persecution of anyone, no matter how much I might dislike their views, or calls to violate the rights granted by the constitution in the name of vengeance for perceived slights or vague notions that someone's words 'might possibly' lead to some other person doing 'something'.

You make some very uncharacteristically mean-spirited accusations here, ones that rely on assumptions about the backgrounds, motives & dispositions of those who do not agree with you. How is that any different from what the Christian Fundamentalists are doing?

FYI, I am bi - I may be a married father, but that does not mean that I am straight. I am considered by the psych field & the public to be a 'sexual deviant' because I have an interest in D/s & because my wife & I have dabbled a bit with having an additional person in our bedroom. I am also the proud descendant of a people just as hated, feared & persecuted throughout history, all the way up to today - the Romani (gypsies, for those not familiar), and am all too familiar with how lethal words of hate can be, and what it is to have ones basic nature associated with criminality - after all, it's still a widely held belief in Europe that 'all gypsies are criminals, bad from birth'.

But I am also a firm believer in Justice, true Freedom for all, and moderation of emotional reactions via reason & ethics. The knee-jerk reactions to what this man posted are very disturbing to me, as this is just the type of behavior that has been used against the LGBT community (and many others) in the past. Cherry-picking words out of context to make someone look like a monster, claims with no proof about what his future actions may be...and now character assassination against any who defend the person's rights...it's like some have taken a page from the Fundamentalist Handbook.



I'm saddened by the direction this discussion has taken, and will now withdraw myself from it.

All JMO

 

[Charlie09]

Yeah, I think fundamentalism of any stripe is akin to belief in Santa Claus.

But that's not the issue in this thread, as I have said again and again and again.

You are deliberately diverting attention from this teacher's obnoxious equation of consensual activity to violence because you know full well there is no defense for his views.

There is absolutely defense of his views. Freedom of Religion, and Freedom of Speech -
What goes on in ANY one's bedroom, does not trump the constitutional rights of speech and religion, no matter how much bullying goes on in these type of threads.

 

[Charlie09]

Agreed. He should not share his warped beliefs with students.

Is it known as a fact that he has student's on his facebook page?

 

[Nova]

I can try answer why it was compared to muder. Cause in the court system muder is just about as bad as you can get. But in God eyes a lier and a muder will be dealt with the same one is not wrose than the other. That is what I was raised to believe. I am not going to argue if it right or wrong. So being gay is not a crime that should be punished but (some belive it is a sin that will get punished by God for and that punish will the be the same that a muder will get. That punishment is hell if your not saved. Thats is what my church belives.

I understand the literal truth of what you say, sweetheart29, but let's don't be naive. The teacher in question had an infinite number of sins from which to choose. He went for "murder" first.

 

[Charlie09]

To Soulmagent:



Certainly lying and cheating are less severe; we don't usually punish them with death.

But the fact remains that ALL his comparison are to crimes against persons. Homosexuality is not such an offense. "One of these things is not like the others", as the children's books say.

Now either God is too stupid to make the distinction or some Christians are too stupid to read scripture with their critical faculties intact. Personally, I wouldn't want the latter teaching my grandchildren, but I realize that depending on district rules, there may be no recourse.

Is the thought process that if you insult enough - we respond and those responses can be alerted on, or are you really trying to be as insulting as possible in hopes those who disagree with you are bullied into not responding at all?

 

[Nova]

There is absolutely defense of his views. Freedom of Religion, and Freedom of Speech -
What goes on in ANY one's bedroom, does not trump the constitutional rights of speech and religion, no matter how much bullying goes on in these type of threads.

And you and others continue to sidestep the real issue here: there are limits to freedom of speech. Comparing private sexual behavior to murder implies that one may be punished like the other and crosses a line into inciting violence, even if unintentionally.

You may not have noticed but it's rare that I don't come down on the side of freedom of speech.

But comparing people with whom you disagree to murderers is something else.

How odd that I am now being accused of equal or greater intolerance. I have NOT compared Christians to murderers, even though historically speaking, the Christian body count is pretty damn high!

 

[Cappuccino]

There is absolutely defense of his views. Freedom of Religion, and Freedom of Speech -
What goes on in ANY one's bedroom, does not trump the constitutional rights of speech and religion, no matter how much bullying goes on in these type of threads.

BBM.

No, that is not a defense of his views - it is a defense of his right to hold and express them. It doesn't defend the views expressed at all. Its not bullying for people to criticise those views, we're merely exercising the same right to freedom of speech that you are defending when its exercised by those who agree with you.

 

[Charlie09]

I realize that to many here, this is an academic issue. You find it amusing to play lawyer with the teacher's FB post, analyzing it literally to the point of disingenuousness and ignoring any suggestion that words may have contexts or consequences.

But to some of us, the equating of ourselves, our friends and our families to murderers is not just an abstract question of constitutional entitlement, it is an all too concrete matter of physical danger and even life and death.

I've been compared to a murderer for almost a half-century now, during which time I've never carried a weapon nor even raised my hand in anger. I'm sick of that $hit!

Behavior also has consequences - which is what this man was pointing out.

 

[Nova]

Is the thought process that if you insult enough - we respond and those responses can be alerted on, or are you really trying to be as insulting as possible in hopes those who disagree with you are bullied into not responding at all?

I'm not trying to be insulting, I'm just stating fact and logical conclusions.

Calling me a "bully" doesn't intimidate me. It's just more right-wing whining.

And I don't care whether you like it, it's a FACT that nobody follows all the prohibitions of either Testament. So anybody who claims homosexuality is a sin because the Bible says so is cherry-picking to suit his own prejudices.

 

[Charlie09]

BBM.

No, that is not a defense of his views - it is a defense of his right to hold and express them. It doesn't defend the views expressed at all. Its not bullying for people to criticise those views, we're merely exercising the same right to freedom of speech that you are defending when its exercised by those who agree with you.

Nope, posters are saying he should lose his job and calling him all sorts of vile things - because they disagree with his religious viewpoints.

 

[Nova]

Behavior also has consequences - which is what this man was pointing out.

If that were true, he would resign. Speech and posting on SM are also "behavior."

 

[Cappuccino]

Nope, posters are saying he should lose his job and calling him all sorts of vile things - because they disagree with his religious viewpoints.

That doesn't make his view point valid, or even above criticism. I haven't called for him to lose his job, I haven't called him anything vile. I haven't called him anything at all - apart from plain wrong.