REVISIT Autopsy Report - Location/Decompostion of Caylee's Clothes

[Theonly1]

Is there statements to the fact that Caylee had a T-shirt with the "Big Trouble Comes In Small Packages" wording on it on the last day she was seen...did GA actually attest to this? If so....boy.....

Someone needs to ask old Georgie that if he last saw Caylee with Casey in the car (as he supposedly is now claiming) then was Caylee wearing her shoes?

 

[Theonly1]

I just posted this on a the forenic autopsy thread but thought you might like to see it too:
Forbes et al . (2005 a, b, c) conducted an extensive series of experiments on the
physical and chemical factors promoting the formation of adipocere. They found
that adipocere would form in soil types ranging from sandy to clayey, provided that
the soils were kept moist, and also in sterile soil that was heated at 200 ° C for 12
hours to remove the normal soil microbial fl ora. ‘ Bodies ’ buried directly in the
ground tended to form adipocere more rapidly than those contained in a coffi n.
Interestingly, placing the ‘ body ’ in a plastic bag retarded the formation of adipocere
but if the ‘ body ’ was clothed and then placed in the plastic bag adipocere formation
was promoted. They suggested that this was owing to the clothing absorbing glycerol
and other decay products that would otherwise inhibit the pathways through
with adipocere is formed. Polyester clothing was deemed to be the most effective,
probably as a consequence of its ability to retain water and, compared to cotton
clothing, resistance to decay.
And also this snip:
The adipocere is admixed with the mummified remains of
muscles, fibrous tissues and nerves. The final product is of a larger bulk than the
original fat with the result that external wounds may become closed and the
pattern of clothing or ligatures may be imprinted on the body surface.

Does it say what the conclusion would be regarding adipocere if the body is placed in a plastic bag but then the plastic bag was punctured and opened by scavenging animals? I think that is the case here.

 

[scrabble]

This is so sad, I read part of the autopsy results and had to stop as it just is so so heartbreaking.

 

[ClockWatcher]

(OT - Hugs, Mac.)

It looks like this is as much info as we're going to have looking at the scientific evidence, and analyses and opinions of professionals based on that evidence.

I would like to hear the opinion of some forensic psychologists on this issue added to the physical scientific evidence. My instinct tells me that Caylee was clothed based on a few things.

One, I can't think of any reason this lazy girl would expend the effort to remove Caylee's clothes. Any effort KC expends has to have not just motivation, but strong motivation. I just can't think of a reason, and I've thought about this a lot.

Second, the 'theme' to this murder (KCs actions/MO) was wrapping and packaging - not exposure. We've got the duct tape wrapped around Caylee's mouth and skull, probable wrapping in a blanket, Caylee put in a plastic trash bag, Caylee put in *another* plastic trash bag, and then Caylee put in a laundry bag.

I personally don't think these actions were thought out by KC. I think all the wrapping and packaging she did was driven from within her. Based on that, it would be odd for KC to stop her driven wrapping and packaging 'mode', remove Caylee's clothes, and then go back to driven wrapping and packaging 'mode'.

Clothing on, particularly a shirt saying 'Packages', in this vein, just makes more sense to me.

Sorry to interject this if it's off topic. I think the psychological aspect is an important consideration in determining what happened to Caylee, and I just don't know where else to post it.

Isn't it ironic how that small package is now causing bigger trouble's than KC could ever imagine?

 

[scrabble]

God be with that precious little girl.

 

[Jolynna]

Someone needs to ask old Georgie that if he last saw Caylee with Casey in the car (as he supposedly is now claiming) then was Caylee wearing her shoes?

George said the last time he saw Caylee she was wearing white shoes and white sunglasses.

 

[LinasK]

If Caylee had been wearing the shirt, the shirt would have been dragged away with the torso/spinal column and found with the thoracic vertebrae not in the bag. I think the shirt was in the bag, not on the body. Same thing with the shorts. The dispersal reports show that the femurs and pelvis were dragged away while still attached to each other. If the shorts were on the body, they would have been found with the femurs and pelvis instead of in the bag. The flesh would have decomposed away long before the clothing would have rotted off.

Why KC disrobed Caylee is anyone's guess.

I'm thinking for staging purposes/ to deflect blame onto someone else, or to make it harder to locate her, i.e. Casey's comments about,"they haven't even found her clothes yet". Casey didn't have any regrets about killing Caylee beyond the heart sticker on the duct tape - which is one thing Casey has in common with the Ramsey's - who on the other hand did at least make an effort to re-dress and wrap JonBenet in a blanket...

 

[doobiedoo52]

If Caylee had been wearing the shirt, the shirt would have been dragged away with the torso/spinal column and found with the thoracic vertebrae not in the bag. I think the shirt was in the bag, not on the body. Same thing with the shorts. The dispersal reports show that the femurs and pelvis were dragged away while still attached to each other. If the shorts were on the body, they would have been found with the femurs and pelvis instead of in the bag. The flesh would have decomposed away long before the clothing would have rotted off.

Why KC disrobed Caylee is anyone's guess.

If there is a possibility of accidental drowning, then maybe Caylee herself stripped down to get in the pool---small children often wear those "little swimmers" somewhat like a pullup but waterproof. Maybe she stripped down to pullup like she did other times she was swimming? Just a thought.

 

[Lynni]

I'm thinking for staging purposes/ to deflect blame onto someone else, or to make it harder to locate her, i.e. Casey's comments about,"they haven't even found her clothes yet". Casey didn't have any regrets about killing Caylee beyond the heart sticker on the duct tape - which is one thing Casey has in common with the Ramsey's - who on the other hand did at least make an effort to re-dress and wrap JonBenet in a blanket...

I wonder if it's possible if she planted clothes somewhere-maybe near JB Park or Sawgrass Apts-in order for it to look like ZFG really took her. She can't come out and say where these clothes were. Supposedly she wouldn't know.

So she takes Caylee's clothes off to make it look like she was wearing clothes that ZFG discarded. But it doesn't make sense why she'd put the ones she was really wearing in the bag. :waitasec:

I, like so many others, can't imagine why she'd take her clothes off.

 

[Devon]

If there is a possibility of accidental drowning, then maybe Caylee herself stripped down to get in the pool---small children often wear those "little swimmers" somewhat like a pullup but waterproof. Maybe she stripped down to pullup like she did other times she was swimming? Just a thought.

I've had the same thought myself. After reading the latest reports I think she may still have been wearing the shirt but not the shorts. A shirt is often a tricky little number for a toddler to manoeuvre out of, but shorts are easy!

 

[ButForFortune]

A thought just struck me while reading this thread. It has been almost an entire year that all of us have been dissecting this case, trying to make sense of Caylee's death and determine what happened. Then I realized if this was, in fact, an accidental drowning and KC had just admitted to the accident we wouldn't have ever even heard of KC or any of the Anthonys. The Anthonys could have begun the process of healing.

It would mean that KC took a drowning tragedy (which happens all too often to families) and for her selfish reasons made it 1,000 times worse.

 

[Macushla]

After considering all the posts I have read here, the little research I tried to do on what might have occurred after Caylee died, I have come to the conclusion that she was wearing a shirt when she was placed in the woods. I am not sure about shorts, but I am pretty confident she was wearing a shirt. As a poster suggested, Perhaps Caylee had removed her shorts at some point and that was also part of what set Casey off, I don't know. While it is useless to apply logic to how Casey might have been thinking, I don't believe she was trying to stage anything.

thank you all again for your contributions to this discussion. I can come up with only one reason for Casey removing Caylee's clothes - if she spilled choloform on them and didn't want them found because of that. As I am still unsure about the whole choloform debate, I can't make myself believe that is a possibility. So I am left with the thought that because there would be no reason to undress her, Casey didn't and the clothes that were found were what little Caylee was wearing when she was killed. Since there did not seem to be more items of clothing found, this seems to be the most logical occurrance. But as I said, logic can not be used when speculating on what Casey might or might not have done.

We will probably never know, but at least Caylee was found and will have a 'voice' in seeing that justice will be done for what was done to her.

 

[SATA]

esc5298:

Why KC disrobed Caylee is anyone's guess.

Let´s hope she was asleep when she was killed. That would also explain the tangled hair, as I´ve read someone theorize (sorry someone, I´m too lazy to go back and check who you are).

I really, REALLY want to think she was asleep. If that would have been the case, she would have either been killed during the night between June 15 and 16. And that would mean that GA lies about seeing Caylee and KC on the 16. I hate to think that he might be.
Or she could have been killed during an afternoon nap.

KC might have wrapped her dead child in the Winnie the Pooh blanket. That is "normal" behaviour for parents who kill their kids.

Does anyone know where exactly the blanket was found? I should do the reading myself, I know (and I will), but it is arduous since English is not my mother tounge.

 

[Lynni]

Did they ever find the backpack she had on when GA last saw her?

I'm sorry if this has been asked, I can't seem to remember it...

 

[wonders]

I wonder if it's possible if she planted clothes somewhere-maybe near JB Park or Sawgrass Apts-in order for it to look like ZFG really took her. She can't come out and say where these clothes were. Supposedly she wouldn't know.

So she takes Caylee's clothes off to make it look like she was wearing clothes that ZFG discarded. But it doesn't make sense why she'd put the ones she was really wearing in the bag. :waitasec:

I, like so many others, can't imagine why she'd take her clothes off.

KC did say they hadn't found Caylee's clothes yet. Is it me or does this speak volumes?

 

[SATA]

wonders:
KC did say they hadn't found Caylee's clothes yet. Is it me or does this speak volumes?

It is not just you. It is a very odd thing to say when your child is missing. I just wish I quite understood WHAT she means by that.:waitasec:

 

[Lynni]

It is not just you. It is a very odd thing to say when your child is missing. I just wish I quite understood WHAT she means by that.:waitasec:

Yeah, why would you think a missing child would be separated from her clothes??? It's very strange.

Turns out, she was in a way. :waitasec: I don't get it.

 

[scandi]

I'm thinking for staging purposes/ to deflect blame onto someone else, or to make it harder to locate her, i.e. Casey's comments about,"they haven't even found her clothes yet". Casey didn't have any regrets about killing Caylee beyond the heart sticker on the duct tape - which is one thing Casey has in common with the Ramsey's - who on the other hand did at least make an effort to re-dress and wrap JonBenet in a blanket...

Hi Linask,, In the autopsy report it mentioned a shroud. Do you know what that was?

 

[MissJames]

KC did say they hadn't found Caylee's clothes yet. Is it me or does this speak volumes?

Has it been verified that KC actually said that? Who reported it to begin with? Was it LP?

 

[panthera]

Is there statements to the fact that Caylee had a T-shirt with the "Big Trouble Comes In Small Packages" wording on it on the last day she was seen...did GA actually attest to this? If so....boy.....

Hi! GA's description did not include that, only that she had on a pink shirt, blue denim skirt, white tennis shoes ~ essentially nothing that was found with her remains. I would think if he had actually seen this particular shirt his description would've been even more detailed than it was. MOO