fortytwo
What was the question?
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That's right.
We're in agreement concerning the process.
Still not sure about the circumstances of Ron's release.
Ron Cummings Arrested 2009.08.06 RE: Battery involving brother-in-law #3
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We're in agreement concerning the process.
Still not sure about the circumstances of Ron's release.
Hollys G-mom
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This is my opinion on what happened the night/day of the altercation.
1. Hank Jr/ Hank Sr/ Lisa C recieved a call from M saying that she didn't want to remain with Ron and to come and get her. She needed back-up (IMO)
That's why 3 people came together. I'll give you 2 senarios, you see which one makes more sense.
A. Daughter calls and says "Hey, I'm ready to leave R, will you come and get me? That would only take 1 person, a driver of a vehicle. No implied violence.
B. Daughter calls up crying and screaming/upset she needs help getting away from R. Come and get her right away. Implied threat of violence or actual violence. This senario would have 2 or more people arriving as to help fend off the "attack". It seems there was a perception of violence already occuring as well as threats of MORE violence should rescuers (other than LE) show up.
2.After M tells R that her family is on thier way there he starts to threaten her more, her family with bodily harm, possible threats with a fire arm. He may have made these threats before to M, M's family members, most certainly made threats about abductor and use of a fire arm. I've know a lot of people who have made these kinds of threats and for the most part people believe them or at least give them the benefit of the doubt, since one never truely knows what another might do. So...
3. M calls fam back to say "Do NOT COME! Don't come here, stay home, it's not worth getting you or me shot over. or beaten, or whatever else. In other words; I'm not really going to leave him, or if I do, I'll be back soon.
Fam decides they have had enough of this BS and they are going to go and collect M, if she wants to go back later, then they will deal with that then. For now, just get her out of harm's way. In this respect she is NOT lying. She DID tell her family NOT TO COME. However, if I recieved this call from my daughter I would certainly go anyway, most probably calling LE on the way over. But that is just me and I have no fear of LE. Others do and I've seen it over and over again. Refusal to involve LE because it's being a "rat" or drug use by one party or other, if not both, or upsetting the daughter/victim causing broken family ties in future. ect ect. ect. Just remember if you pi$$ off your son-in-law, it's pretty likey you won't get to enjoy a close relationship with your grandchild(ren), present or future. Possibly not ever get to see them at all.
4. Fam arrives to M insisting that she is NOT leaving R! She wants them to leave and NOT call LE on her behalf. They can not abide by R's & M's demands
on keeping silent. They try to cajole M into going with them. Pleading with her while threatening R if he tries to hurt her or stop them. She gets defensive over "her man" and starts to fight with fam members. R shoves Hank Jr. (This is the assault charge, he struck first. In the state of FL there are no such a thing as "fighting words". No matter what anyone says to you, or even screams at you, you are not allowed to hit them for ANY REASON!) Hank is ready to defend himself, he's been ready since the calls started that day.
5. GGS comes outside, gets involved in the scuffle. Notice she didn't call LE. Why not? If my grandson or son's in laws were at my house and remained after they had been asked by thier OWN family member to leave, I would threaten calling LE. If they still didn't leave, I would let them explain it all to the officer. Why didn't GGS do so? Hmmmm? Makes one wonder. I often wonder what people are up to when they are afraid to call LE to thier home even when warranted. GGS involves herself in the altercation by shoving people into the van without injury or incident to herself, yet M is struck more than once in this same fray.
Also how did M know who hit her if it happened in the fight? It could have been either participant of the fray. Fists move fast, if 2 or more people are throwing punches, any one of them could have accidentally hit M. Quite possible that all three could have struck her.(Personally, that's why I don't jump into fights for men. Let them take care of themselves.) My question is this, did she get hit in 1st altercation or 2nd? If the 2nd, was she inside the van or outside? I believe if it happened at all, it happened during the 1st fight.
6. When fam starts to leave, Hank Jr shouts to R something that makes him lose it. "Don't kill M like you did Haleigh" or "Better hope M doesn't disappear" or some other inflamitory remark. R runs out and starts attacking Hank Jr inside of the van. Once able to leave the scene, they head for the 1st phone available.
Also I would like to mention that it is very typical for a neck injury to present it's self days after the injury happens. I too had a whiplash in 1986. I felt perfectly fine for 3 days. On the morning of the 3rd day I felt literally paralized. I had to have help to romove myself from the bed. It tooks months (6-8) to recover and was no joke or laughing matter. Nor was it some scheme to get money since whiplash only nets about $10,000. at most. Usually the policy cap amount, with most of going to Drs and medical bills.
1. Hank Jr/ Hank Sr/ Lisa C recieved a call from M saying that she didn't want to remain with Ron and to come and get her. She needed back-up (IMO)
That's why 3 people came together. I'll give you 2 senarios, you see which one makes more sense.
A. Daughter calls and says "Hey, I'm ready to leave R, will you come and get me? That would only take 1 person, a driver of a vehicle. No implied violence.
B. Daughter calls up crying and screaming/upset she needs help getting away from R. Come and get her right away. Implied threat of violence or actual violence. This senario would have 2 or more people arriving as to help fend off the "attack". It seems there was a perception of violence already occuring as well as threats of MORE violence should rescuers (other than LE) show up.
2.After M tells R that her family is on thier way there he starts to threaten her more, her family with bodily harm, possible threats with a fire arm. He may have made these threats before to M, M's family members, most certainly made threats about abductor and use of a fire arm. I've know a lot of people who have made these kinds of threats and for the most part people believe them or at least give them the benefit of the doubt, since one never truely knows what another might do. So...
3. M calls fam back to say "Do NOT COME! Don't come here, stay home, it's not worth getting you or me shot over. or beaten, or whatever else. In other words; I'm not really going to leave him, or if I do, I'll be back soon.
Fam decides they have had enough of this BS and they are going to go and collect M, if she wants to go back later, then they will deal with that then. For now, just get her out of harm's way. In this respect she is NOT lying. She DID tell her family NOT TO COME. However, if I recieved this call from my daughter I would certainly go anyway, most probably calling LE on the way over. But that is just me and I have no fear of LE. Others do and I've seen it over and over again. Refusal to involve LE because it's being a "rat" or drug use by one party or other, if not both, or upsetting the daughter/victim causing broken family ties in future. ect ect. ect. Just remember if you pi$$ off your son-in-law, it's pretty likey you won't get to enjoy a close relationship with your grandchild(ren), present or future. Possibly not ever get to see them at all.
4. Fam arrives to M insisting that she is NOT leaving R! She wants them to leave and NOT call LE on her behalf. They can not abide by R's & M's demands
on keeping silent. They try to cajole M into going with them. Pleading with her while threatening R if he tries to hurt her or stop them. She gets defensive over "her man" and starts to fight with fam members. R shoves Hank Jr. (This is the assault charge, he struck first. In the state of FL there are no such a thing as "fighting words". No matter what anyone says to you, or even screams at you, you are not allowed to hit them for ANY REASON!) Hank is ready to defend himself, he's been ready since the calls started that day.
5. GGS comes outside, gets involved in the scuffle. Notice she didn't call LE. Why not? If my grandson or son's in laws were at my house and remained after they had been asked by thier OWN family member to leave, I would threaten calling LE. If they still didn't leave, I would let them explain it all to the officer. Why didn't GGS do so? Hmmmm? Makes one wonder. I often wonder what people are up to when they are afraid to call LE to thier home even when warranted. GGS involves herself in the altercation by shoving people into the van without injury or incident to herself, yet M is struck more than once in this same fray.
Also how did M know who hit her if it happened in the fight? It could have been either participant of the fray. Fists move fast, if 2 or more people are throwing punches, any one of them could have accidentally hit M. Quite possible that all three could have struck her.(Personally, that's why I don't jump into fights for men. Let them take care of themselves.) My question is this, did she get hit in 1st altercation or 2nd? If the 2nd, was she inside the van or outside? I believe if it happened at all, it happened during the 1st fight.6. When fam starts to leave, Hank Jr shouts to R something that makes him lose it. "Don't kill M like you did Haleigh" or "Better hope M doesn't disappear" or some other inflamitory remark. R runs out and starts attacking Hank Jr inside of the van. Once able to leave the scene, they head for the 1st phone available.
Also I would like to mention that it is very typical for a neck injury to present it's self days after the injury happens. I too had a whiplash in 1986. I felt perfectly fine for 3 days. On the morning of the 3rd day I felt literally paralized. I had to have help to romove myself from the bed. It tooks months (6-8) to recover and was no joke or laughing matter. Nor was it some scheme to get money since whiplash only nets about $10,000. at most. Usually the policy cap amount, with most of going to Drs and medical bills.
Pondering Mind
here a ponder, there a ponder...everywhere a ponde
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Just curious...why do I keep seeing posts saying that the Croslins went to GGM's in the 'middle of the night'? I thought that it was only 11:45....is that wrong?tia
VolLady
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I'm not sure why all of a sudden this is a big deal. John Merchant is the Homicide Detective in PC and has been on the case all along.
"Lt. Greenwood did clear up a question as to who was now in charge fo the investigation into Haleigh's disappearance. Greenwood told me that when the investigation first began, Detective John Merchant, who handles the department's murder investigations, and Detective Peggy Cone, who primarily deals with missing persons, worked together leading the case. He said that Merchant was more visible because he was seen in the media transporting people for questioning.
http://www.thesky973.com/pages/4781619.php?
Gracenote
We know that all things work together for good for
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This is my opinion on what happened the night/day of the altercation.
1. Hank Jr/ Hank Sr/ Lisa C recieved a call from M saying that she didn't want to remain with Ron and to come and get her. She needed back-up (IMO)
That's why 3 people came together. I'll give you 2 senarios, you see which one makes more sense.
A. Daughter calls and says "Hey, I'm ready to leave R, will you come and get me? That would only take 1 person, a driver of a vehicle. No implied violence.
B. Daughter calls up crying and screaming/upset she needs help getting away from R. Come and get her right away. Implied threat of violence or actual violence. This senario would have 2 or more people arriving as to help fend off the "attack". It seems there was a perception of violence already occuring as well as threats of MORE violence should rescuers (other than LE) show up.
2.After M tells R that her family is on thier way there he starts to threaten her more, her family with bodily harm, possible threats with a fire arm. He may have made these threats before to M, M's family members, most certainly made threats about abductor and use of a fire arm. I've know a lot of people who have made these kinds of threats and for the most part people believe them or at least give them the benefit of the doubt, since one never truely knows what another might do. So...
3. M calls fam back to say "Do NOT COME! Don't come here, stay home, it's not worth getting you or me shot over. or beaten, or whatever else. In other words; I'm not really going to leave him, or if I do, I'll be back soon.
Fam decides they have had enough of this BS and they are going to go and collect M, if she wants to go back later, then they will deal with that then. For now, just get her out of harm's way. In this respect she is NOT lying. She DID tell her family NOT TO COME. However, if I recieved this call from my daughter I would certainly go anyway, most probably calling LE on the way over. But that is just me and I have no fear of LE. Others do and I've seen it over and over again. Refusal to involve LE because it's being a "rat" or drug use by one party or other, if not both, or upsetting the daughter/victim causing broken family ties in future. ect ect. ect. Just remember if you pi$$ off your son-in-law, it's pretty likey you won't get to enjoy a close relationship with your grandchild(ren), present or future. Possibly not ever get to see them at all.
4. Fam arrives to M insisting that she is NOT leaving R! She wants them to leave and NOT call LE on her behalf. They can not abide by R's & M's demands
on keeping silent. They try to cajole M into going with them. Pleading with her while threatening R if he tries to hurt her or stop them. She gets defensive over "her man" and starts to fight with fam members. R shoves Hank Jr. (This is the assault charge, he struck first. In the state of FL there are no such a thing as "fighting words". No matter what anyone says to you, or even screams at you, you are not allowed to hit them for ANY REASON!) Hank is ready to defend himself, he's been ready since the calls started that day.
5. GGS comes outside, gets involved in the scuffle. Notice she didn't call LE. Why not? If my grandson or son's in laws were at my house and remained after they had been asked by thier OWN family member to leave, I would threaten calling LE. If they still didn't leave, I would let them explain it all to the officer. Why didn't GGS do so? Hmmmm? Makes one wonder. I often wonder what people are up to when they are afraid to call LE to thier home even when warranted. GGS involves herself in the altercation by shoving people into the van without injury or incident to herself, yet M is struck more than once in this same fray.
6. When fam starts to leave, Hank Jr shouts to R something that makes him lose it. "Don't kill M like you did Haleigh" or "Better hope M doesn't disappear" or some other inflamitory remark. R runs out and starts attacking Hank Jr inside of the van. Once able to leave the scene, they head for the 1st phone available.
Also I would like to mention that it is very typical for a neck injury to present it's self days after the injury happens. I too had a whiplash in 1986. I felt perfectly fine for 3 days. On the morning of the 3rd day I felt literally paralized. I had to have help to romove myself from the bed. It tooks months (6-8) to recover and was no joke or laughing matter. Nor was it some scheme to get money since whiplash only nets about $10,000. at most. Usually the policy cap amount, with most of going to Drs and medical bills.
Very well said.
The bolded part is what I assumed as well. I figured that he had to have said something to make Ron charge him that way.
Finally, I had a whiplash that made itself known the day after my wreck. That sucker hurt!
Shaymus at The Rock
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According to a press release from the sheriff's office, three members of the Croslin family showed up about 11:30 p.m. at the double wide mobile home in Welaka where Cummings, his wife and his grandmother, Annette Sykes, live.
http://www.wftv.com/news/20301331/detail.html
MADJGNLAW
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Annette Sykes said Tommy Croslin, his father and mother came to her mobile home in Welaka at 10:45 p.m. During the fight, Croslin went into the van and Ronald swung at him in the vehicle, Sykes said.
Croslin and his parents left and deputies arrived at Sykes' later in the night and made the arrest.
http://www.jacksonville.com/news/met...ing_brother_in
Shaymus at The Rock
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Oh no, dueling links
JKI remembered 10:45 as well, but then I found the 11:30 report. Sigh - nothing simple about this case. But in any event, IMO, neither time are "middle of the night". (And I'm a little old retired person - usually asleep before 10:30.)
elle1919
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I guess what some people consider the middle of the night isn't actually middle of the night to others. I can't understand anyone getting hung up on that one detail when there is much more confusing stuff....lol(imo). My family is a family of six, early to bed and very early to rise you might say. If someone pulled in my driveway after 10:00 pm and certainly after 11:00, I would 100% consider it the middle of the night. We can assume that at least 1 person considered it the middle of the night....GGS stated very clearly that she was in bed when she heard the disturbance outside.
I will even go so far as to say that if someone pulled in my driveway after 9 pm....that is the middle of the night to me. Evening does still begin at 6pm doesn't it? If I had an unexpected visitor at say 2 am....that would be early morning to me....lol. But thats just me.
Shaymus at The Rock
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BBM
Looking to see where the poster is "hung-up" ? Seems like he/she asked a quick and simple question and then moved on.
Indiana at Heart
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Indiana at Heart
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raeann
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It was 10:45 according to reports....Not even local tv news time yet on many of the east coast stations. Not late at all for some, and I am "guessing" that at that time of the evening, people were still sitting outside at some of the neighbors homes and we may soon hear about some witnesses to this event. JMO
elle1919
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Pardon me.....maybe "hung up" was not the right words.....people are however questioning whether or not the period after ....let's say....10 pm would be the middle of the night. I said I considered middle of the night to be a proper phrase to use because I for one would consider that to be the middle of the night. Perhaps you and other posters might still be up sitting outside but I would not. Perhaps the person quoted as saying middle of the night...Misty was it? Maybe she felt like it was middle of the night. To each his or her own.
elle1919
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I just posted that 10:45 is the middle of the night to me.....lol. How can you state that it is not the middle of the night no matter how you look at it...? Are you saying my opinion doesn't count?
debs
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Well, hyperbole doesn't really matter, since the Croslin's say they arrived at GGMS house at 10:45, the LE report states that the incident happened about 11:30, and PCSO shows Ronald was booked at around 1 a.m.
No need to bother with "middle of the night" or "late night" or anything like that. It wasn't morning, it was after dinner, most folks would be watching the news or late night talk shows, and otherwise it's a weird hour for an impromptu family visit unless the family had been called to come. That Misty states she specifically told them NOT to come doesn't answer the question of whether she in fact asked them to PRIOR to asking them not to.......I'm going with that, anyway. It makes sense and isn't self-serving for anyone. I surely don't think the Croslin's would have wanted to go over for a beatdown like Hank2 got.
No need to bother with "middle of the night" or "late night" or anything like that. It wasn't morning, it was after dinner, most folks would be watching the news or late night talk shows, and otherwise it's a weird hour for an impromptu family visit unless the family had been called to come. That Misty states she specifically told them NOT to come doesn't answer the question of whether she in fact asked them to PRIOR to asking them not to.......I'm going with that, anyway. It makes sense and isn't self-serving for anyone. I surely don't think the Croslin's would have wanted to go over for a beatdown like Hank2 got.
Indiana at Heart
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Middle of the night to me is 1 to 3 am but thats just me JMO
Also I have a niece that stops by after 11 pm when she gets off work couple nights a week. So we all have different options of middle of the night.
raeann
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Lol.....me too... I don't think I have gone to bed before 11 p.m. since I was 11! Even then, I had chores and activities and piano practice and I was often still doing HOMEWORK at 11:00 in the "evening"! By the time Ron was booked, I would agree with the middle of the night terminology. However, I think that spin was started by posters, not any of the witnesses or participants. At one point someone reported that Ron and Misty were still sitting outdoors smoking on the porch, although I can't link to where they got that information.