Sauvie Island Timeline Info

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BeanE said:
Okay. I'm flummoxed. This map has Fred Meyer to NW Reeder Rd to 24 Hour Fitness. It shows 1 hour 38 minutes, and completely blows the timeline.

I'm going to need some help to figure this out.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...624603,-122.837448&spn=0.255951,0.676346&z=11
Click to expand...

Are we sure about the time that Andrea saw Terri at FM#2? Even she didn't remember - only that it was before 10 am, because she wanted to be at Borders (I think) by 10. So, in my mind, it's quite possible that there is a 2 hour gap between the last time that Terri was seen and her 11:39 arrival at the gym.
 
Kaine believes Terri went to the gym:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5656427&postcount=149"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Terri and the gym[/ame]
 
SacreBleu said:
Are we sure about the time that Andrea saw Terri at FM#2? Even she didn't remember - only that it was before 10 am, because she wanted to be at Borders (I think) by 10. So, in my mind, it's quite possible that there is a 2 hour gap between the last time that Terri was seen and her 11:39 arrival at the gym.
Click to expand...

LE seems to be confirming in the Aug 11 flier that Terri was at both FMs, IMO. I'm not sure we can open up the timeline on that end.

I need to noodle on this, on what LE could be thinking timeline-wise.
 
I believe they're thinking of an accomplice. I've tried numerous ways to place TH via the goggle maps on SI using the timeline and it just doesn't work. Unless the 1st FM is not verified and she went straight from the school to SI and stopped by that FM on her way back later and dug through the trash to get a 9:12 receipt, which of course if they have surveillance that wouldn't work either. Back to the drawing board as they say.
 
Sure hope there is info on her computer!! Before and after!
Like ICA was TH searching maps? how to break necks? etc.
O/T if we only knew how the MFH was to be exectuted and WHERE, SI?
 
BeanE said:
Trying to figure out a timeline incorporating Terri going to Sauvie Island to dispose of Kyron's body.

- According to the most recent information from LE, in the LE/DA flier from the press conference of August 11, LE appears to have Terri's timeline as follows:

8:15 to 8:45am - at Skyline Elementary school

9:00am - Fred Meyer supermarket, Cornelius Pass, 22075 NW Imbrie Rd, Hillsboro

10:00am - Fred Meyer supermarket, Walker Rd, 15995 SW Walker Rd, Beaverton

10:15 to 11:30am - (75 min/1hr 15 min) on or near Skyline Blvd between approx Springville Rd and Newberry Rd, including on or around Germantown Rd and/or Old Germantown Rd

http://www.mcso.us/public/newsroom/081110_PressConferenceFlier.pdf


- Per the two MSM news articles on Terri's timeline, and Terri's emails:

11:39am - 24-hour Fitness gym, 1265 NW Waterhouse Ave, Beaverton, OR 97006

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Sources detail Terri’s timeline day Kyron disappeared #2



- Per Google Maps, the drive time from the 2nd Fred Meyer on Walker Rd to the intersection of NW Sauvie Island Rd and NW Gillihan Rd, just on the other (island) side of the bridge to Sauvie Island, is 27 to 28 minutes (12.1 to 20.1 miles).


- Per Google Maps, the drive time from the same intersection on Sauvie Island to the 24 hour fitness gym in Beaverton is 26 to 27 minutes (11.3 to 19.3 miles).


- Assuming, therefore, the minimum drive times from Google Maps, with arrival on the bridge to Sauvie Island at (10:00am plus 27 minutes = ) 10:27am, and departure from the bridge to Sauvie Island at (11:39am - 26 minutes = ) 11:13am, that would give Terri approximately (10:27 to 11:13) 46 minutes to drive from just on the island side of the bridge to a location on Sauvie Island and dispose of Kyron's body.

- If the 11:39am time related to the gym is a check-in time, then a few minutes need to be subtracted from the 46 minutes for Terri to park, take the baby out of the car seat, walk into the gym, etc., leaving maybe 40 minutes or so for her to get from the referenced intersection to the disposal location, dispose of Kyron's body, then get back to the intersection.

- Because of the information herein, and my assumptions regarding how long it would take to dispose of a body, I believe the timeframe in italics above is the most likely point in time Terri could have gone to Sauvie Island for this purpose.
Click to expand...

FWIW...The second FM's time is a bit late according to the woman who testified in front of the GJ concerning her conversation with TH at FM. This woman said that SHE was at a bookstore by the time it opened at 10:00, so the latest the conversation at FM could have occurred was probably 9:45...TH was probably out and driving in her car before 10:00 A.M.
 
Okay, still noodlin' here. Terri arrived at Gym @ 11:39 and it's said she worked out for an hour. So she left Gym at approximately 12:40. The trip from the gym to SI R&R roads is 54 minutes, and back to sheltered nook rd is another 34 minutes. That's a total of l hour and 28 minutes. She said she got home around 1:00 and was posting on FB at 1:21, correct? How do we know that she got home at 1:00, can you post on FB from a laptop on Sauvie Island? Kaine did not get home until what time, sometime after 2:00, correct? So if TH left the gym at 12:40 and drove to where they're searching at SI she would have arrived there at approx. 1:30, did whatever, and she would be home by 2:05. And the gym timeline says "about an hour" so it could have maybe been even less than that. Anyway, this is the only time frame I can fit the SI locations into her day. Did I do the math right?

As you can see I know nothing about laptops or posting on FB. LOL

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...29037&sspn=0.041805,0.110378&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=13
 
The info on how long she was at the gym, and when she got home, varies. I've been noodling on that time period as a candidate for Sauvie too. Not done noodling yet though lol.

Look at both the 'Gym' section and the 'Back Home' section to get all the times.


BeanE said:
Updated August 25 2010

Combined info from the Two Timeline Articles and Terri's Emails

Grocery Shopping

First Article: According to multiple sources, Terri Moulton Horman says she left Skyline School at 8:45 in the morning without Kyron the day he disappeared and that between 8:45 a.m. and 10:10 a.m. she ran errands at local grocery stores and can prove it.

Terri's emails: I left the school at 9 and he was seen with a man “chaperone” and 2 girls after I left. I have a receipt showing I was checked out at Fred Meyer 7 miles away at 9:12am. I went to another FM looking for meds for Kitty they didn’t have at the first FM.


Driving on Rural Roads

First Article: Between 10:10 in the morning and 11:39, Terri said she drove her daughter K around on rural roads in the family’s white truck because K had an earache. She said she was trying to soothe the toddler with the motion of the vehicle.

Second Article: She told investigators that she drove K around a series of rural roads for an hour, saying she was trying to calm her down because she didn't feel well.

Terri's emails: Then I was trying to get Kitty to sleep in the truck for a few minutes, but no go, so off to the gym at 11:20.


Gym

First Article: At 11:39 a.m., Terri checked in at a 24-hour Fitness in Beaverton on Waterhouse Avenue and worked out for about an hour until 12:40 p.m.

Second Article: She went to the gym for about 45 minutes that morning and arrived home about 1 p.m. to post pictures from the science fair on her Facebook page.

Terri's emails: Then I was trying to get Kitty to sleep in the truck for a few minutes, but no go, so off to the gym at 11:20. Out at 12:20.


Back Home

First Article: By 1:21, Terri said she'd traveled home - a distance of nearly 11 miles - and was posting photos on Facebook she'd taken that morning of Kyron standing with his science project and of his friend, K, standing with his.

Second Article: She went to the gym for about 45 minutes that morning and arrived home about 1 p.m. to post pictures from the science fair on her Facebook page.

Terri's emails: Home at 12:45.


First article: http://www.katu.com/news/local/99151549.html

Second article: http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Horman-kyron-missing-gaps-portland-kiara-99181214.html

Terri's emails: View Single Post - Kyron Horman Case Review #1: Thread #1: LE Press Conference & Release: June 5 2010
Click to expand...
 
Here's what I'm hung up on, Billylee. If she stops to post the pics on FB and also I think she emailed both Desiree and the teacher during this timeframe, then it extends the time before she could get back home.

We also need to know from a local if you can access Wifi on Sauvie Island or between Sauvie and Sheltered Nook.

Kaine and Desiree and the reporter talked a bit about whether this was from home or from her phone or what in the 25 minute audio interview. I'll have to go back and listen again to what they said. I'm not really up for it today though.

ETA:


BeanE said:
25 minute audio interview of Desiree and Kaine with the Oregonian:

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/terri_hormans_emails_to_kyron.html
Click to expand...
 
Glitch in my genie.....I lost my post. Anyway, I'll try again.

12:40, we can assume is a time that is verified by the gym, given it's specificity. So she leaves the gym, drives to SI with Kyron and the baby, gym bag, computer, assortment of other things. Drives out to SI, to the far end of the island, and either after, or before 1:21 does something to Kyron, and at 1:21, has the wherewithal to post pictures of a child she's done (or will do) something with. She then must drive 35 minutes to get back to her house, which means she would have no more than approx. 5 minutes after posting, in order to get home before 2, like her husband did. By 2 or so when Kaine arrives home, Terri must calm herself down, bring all that stuff into the house, make sure baby K is happliy playing on the floor so that when her dad comes home, he doesn't notice one thing amiss, everything was a normal day, and he spends an hour and a half working, never noticing anything at all.

I don't know how long it takes to get from the gym to the far reaches of the island (ETA, I just saw from BeanE it's about 54 minutes one direction), but I'll assume it's at least 40 minutes. I don't see where a window of .... minutes really .... is possible.
 
Okay. So, we have an undisputed 1-1/2 hours (10:10 per Terri's email - 11:39 per the gym) available. Clearly, not enough time for Terri to have made the trip from FM#2 to NW Reeder & Rentenaar and back to the gym in Beaverton. Maybe she didn't. Maybe her phone did. If there was a pass-off of Kyron, maybe the phone was passed off, too. Plenty of time after the gym to meet-up with someone to get her phone back. So, the definitive question, of course, is: were any calls made from her phone between 9:00 am and 1:00 pm and, if so, who made them? If no calls were made, or if it cannot be proven that Terri made them, then a whole kettle of other questions can be asked. All of this assumes that the reason for the SI search is the cell pings and only the cell pings. MOO, of course.

Or, there was certainly time for a pass-off at the SI bridge.
 
SacreBleu said:
Okay. So, we have an undisputed 1-1/2 hours (10:10 per Terri's email - 11:39 per the gym) available. Clearly, not enough time for Terri to have made the trip from FM#2 to NW Reeder & Rentenaar and back to the gym in Beaverton. Maybe she didn't. Maybe her phone did. If there was a pass-off of Kyron, maybe the phone was passed off, too. Plenty of time after the gym to meet-up with someone to get her phone back. So, the definitive question, of course, is: were any calls made from her phone between 9:00 am and 1:00 pm and, if so, who made them? If no calls were made, or if it cannot be proven that Terri made them, then a whole kettle of other questions can be asked. All of this assumes that the reason for the SI search is the cell pings and only the cell pings. MOO, of course.

Or, there was certainly time for a pass-off at the SI bridge.
Click to expand...

I think you guys are onto something. I will say I have also heard the theory that they are looking for *phones* not *bones* but that really doesn't seem like they'd put dogs out on that, nor do I know of what exactly they would gain by the phones, except maybe the contacts.

Now, to the hand-off theory fitting in the time frame: This whole business about BP (TP's dad) having a houseboat there on SI, Mill Road, is it? That is very very coincidental to me that TP's grandma lives next door to TH and KH and Kyron, and the son (BP) just happens to live on a houseboat on SI where the searchers first focused.

Now, I'm not saying BP is involved, I am saying that someone who would have known them and the area in and around that houseboat on SI may have gone there to dispose or, or hand off, Kyron. They may have even wanted to 'set up' someone as responsible (say BP) with connections to Kyron in case the body was discovered.

I still don't think DDS is involved. I could be wrong, am all the time, but I'm not wrapping my brain around the fact that DDS would risk life in prison and/or ever participate in harming a child and go out there for a hand-off.

We all know the phrase 'their MO' (modus operandi) and TH's MO is to hire out (MHF plot) killing someone - from the brief track record we have. So, that speaks to a hand-off of Kyron, at some point, opening up her time frame to a hand-off spot and her driving around like a crazy woman waiting to hear that the deed had been done via her 'pinging' phone or yet another phone she had with her that day.
 
Maybe the operative words are Terri said and Terri told.
If what Terri said and Terri told aren't true for some reason, and if the anonymous "multiple sources" got their timeline info from Terri or from people who got their timeline info from someone who got it from Terri the timeline might turn out to be something else altogether.

Which times have been confirmed by LE or an independent witness? There is AL's sighting some time between 9:30 and 10 am. Then there are the LE flyers asking for sightings of her at certain times in certain places but was that because they think she was there or because they think she wasn't there? Then there is Kaine saying he got home and saw Terri.
 
BeanE said:
Here's what I'm hung up on, Billylee. If she stops to post the pics on FB and also I think she emailed both Desiree and the teacher during this timeframe, then it extends the time before she could get back home.

We also need to know from a local if you can access Wifi on Sauvie Island or between Sauvie and Sheltered Nook.

Kaine and Desiree and the reporter talked a bit about whether this was from home or from her phone or what in the 25 minute audio interview. I'll have to go back and listen again to what they said. I'm not really up for it today though.

ETA:
Click to expand...

If there was an accomplice someone might have been posting on FB and emailed on her behalf or done some of the driving for her.
 
I'm not ready to throw in the towel and call accomplice yet. I want to find out about Wifi on Sauvie, and play with the timeline some more.

Also would like to hear from some more locals as to the accuracy of drive times on Google for this area, or any other input or perspective they may be able to offer.

An accomplice or a different perp are the easy answers. I'm not convinced yet that's what LE has in mind.
 
BeanE said:
From one of our locals, loves2bmom:
Click to expand...

Which could also account for why they are so focused on SI, because maybe the other 'pings' they got weren't pings at all but a laptop or smartphone post on FB. But that only gives her until 2 PM when KH gets home - so 11:50 to 2 PM is time enough to get out there, meaning horrifically that Kyron could have been in her truck all that time? Or she put him somewhere and got him later. I can't even imagine at this point. I'm still thinking it was a hand off and RS is involved or another male. I guess I just hope/pray there aren't 2 psycho women out here in Portland that would do such a thing - so she acted alone or with a guy.
 
Terri leaves gym @ approx. 12:20. It takes 51 minutes to get to the area on NW Reeder where the wifi is. She'd arrive there at approx. 1:10 p.m. She does whatever with Kyron. She sits in the truck and posts his picture from her laptop to her FB 1:20. She leaves SI right after that. It's 33 minutes back to her house. That makes it 1:55. Kaine gets home at 2:05.

I suppose this is all possible, but it sure doesn't leave much time to spare. Even if she was speeding (which she apparently has a habit of) you'd probably only cut 10 minutes max off this timeline. We're only talking about 10 minutes to do whatever, possibly 20 and in broad daylight. I don't know, but I guess if it were a handoff, it wouldn't take long, but if LE thought that, why would they be out searching for Kyron on SI now?

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...27,-122.819595&spn=0.183874,0.441513&t=h&z=11

I just don't see any other holes in her timeline when she had time to be on SI.
 
On Saturday the searchers, directed by the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office, combed the east side of the island – working through the pouring rain to look for clues.

snip

Our crews noticed searchers focusing on small bodies of water on Sauvie Island, going over the same areas several times with different teams. Many of the ponds were adjacent to gravel roads, not main roads on the island.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/104675229.html
 
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