School District Considers Dropping Cursive

[Chewy]

Yes they are teaching technology way before 4th grade. Nearly every school in the DOE here has computers in the classroom for kindergarten onward.

Also penmanship is obsolete and will be by the time the kids get older. Pretty much everyone prints and only signs their signature. Everything else is print or type. In the future less and less people will be using script. If you wish to teach it to your child by all means do so. It isn't the schools job to teach every whim and interest to students but to give them the tools they need to succeed in their learning and in their lives.

A student who knows how to do research on a computer, how to cite sources, how to evaluate for legitimacy, how to create power point presentations and use graphic design in their life is learning a much more important tool than script. Computers are often used for additional strategies in logic and reasoning games etc etc. Computers and technology create and understanding of the global community of learners by having them communicate with other students around the world. It's a huge part of the learning process and one many of us didn't ever have at all in the classroom as a student.


Reminds me of this LOL


NO GRANDMA, LISTEN, DOUBLE CLICK THE CHROME ICON....

 

[belimom]

My take on it is this:
- my kids get plenty of computer time at home
- we have a wonderful keyboarding program for kids at home
- it's a great way to enhance fine motor skills and a brain connection (the brain disengages every time you lift your finger off the page, so writing a word is different to the brain in cursive that writing each letter in manuscript/print

In my kids' school, they don't teach manuscript/print after kindergarten; 1st-G+ uses cursive only. And I did fight it at first, but have since realized maybe it's a better way for most kids.

 

[TrackerSam]

Educators should be realistic and provide kids with tools that will be needed in the future. What's next teaching them how to type on manual typewriters?

Not teaching them anything would be my guess.

 

[Chewy]

My take on it is this:
- my kids get plenty of computer time at home
- we have a wonderful keyboarding program for kids at home
- it's a great way to enhance fine motor skills and a brain connection (the brain disengages every time you lift your finger off the page, so writing a word is different to the brain in cursive that writing each letter in manuscript/print

In my kids' school, they don't teach manuscript/print after kindergarten; 1st-G+ uses cursive only. And I did fight it at first, but have since realized maybe it's a better way for most kids.

Not every child has a computer at home. It is much easier for a parent to teach children cursive at home than it is to teach them about computers. And I'm sorry but most parents don't teach their kids anything on the computer at home. The kids just figure it out. I guess we'll agree to disagree but it is unfortunate to see parents completely ignore the reality of poor kids who may not have a computer at home.

 

[belimom]

Chewy, I'm not saying they shouldn't learn computer skills. I just think that they have plenty of time to learn computer skills, but with fine motor skills, there is a window of opportunity in the brain, much like learning language. I don't see the harm in teaching cursive up until 3rd or 4th grade. Yes, we can disagree... ... but I wanted to clarify that computer skills *should* be taught in school. However, they have many many years of learning the computer, while only a handful to learn good penmanship.

 

[TrackerSam]

I prefer teaching students correctly on technologies they will actually use in their lifetime. :waitasec:

So they should be given calculators instead of learning arithmetic? No need to teach English syntax - they won't be using it.
BTW, Can I get the make and model of your crystal ball? Just about everything will change due to technology so why teach anything? Take the easy way out.
And I would think that just printing your name would make identity theft alot easier.

 

[Chewy]

How does typing on a computer prevent you from learning syntax, semantics and grammar structure? That's ridiculous. I wrote a 50 page thesis on theology using the computer. You think I just typed in a bunch of words and the computer "did it for me."

LOL

Also I teach teachers for a living and the curriculum is always adapting to new technologies, it's called progress. Teaching an antiquated writing style (which is ALL IT IS it is in no way better than printing for all intents and purposes,) is a waste of time. What exact superiority does cursive have over print other than it being 'prettier'

Anyway I'll bow out of this discussion. It's pointless.

ETA I have already stated that all kids need to know their signature. Beyond that it's just a fancy style of writing.

 

[Angels_Not_Forgotten]

I'm 29. I'm very knowledgeable in technology (taught in school and self taught) and I was taught cursive in school. There's a lot more time in the day when parents teach their children what is and is not acceptable in school. Our attitudes have changed. There is time for both...just not when 20 kids talk back to the teacher and act up and face no sort of punishment for their acts to encourage them to do the right thing. Oh and leaving no child behind. JMO of course.

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[belimom]

Just asked DH about this. He said he'd be lost if he couldn't write fast, such as cursive. He works at (a big federal bldg in DC) and is not allowed to take computers into certain meetings - for security reasons. He has to write fast with pen/paper and uses arrows for diagrams, notes in margins. Same thing at other federal agencies that he visits: you cannot carry computer equipment around from some locations to others in certain buildings. At this point in time, the fed gov't is not issuing laptops - only desktops (this obviously may change in the future). And you cannot bring personal laptops (security).

He's the biggest tech geek I know, but he can't believe anyone wouldn't still teach cursive.

Just wanted to add his two cents.

 

[CCmakes3]

I am a pediatric occupational therapist. Teaching handwriting has been my bread-and-butter for over 20 years but I have to agree with Chewy for the most part. I think cursive should be introduced to students (preferably in a unit toward the beginning of 3rd grade) but students should not be required to complete all of their work in cursive. It penalizes kids with fine motor and perceptual deficits who are otherwise intelligent kids. A child should be allowed to get their ideas down using whatever method is most efficient for them. I work with preschool through high school students (and teachers) and I can vouche for the fact that the curriculum is too jam-packed at all levels to make students struggle to get their thoughts on paper. I understand cursive is faster for some people, but not for all people.

 

[mysticrose]

These teachers would have time to continue to teach cursive if they did not have to put in loads of time basicly teaching our kids how to pass a test so they don't lose funding, you can accredit that to "No (every) child left behind". Both of my parents are recent retired school teachers so I am very aware of what happened when all of that went into play.
They quit teaching our kids and started testing ! Cursive is a part of our history, if you don't teach it how would someone be able to read so much of our historic document's?
It also helps develop fine motor skills.

I was livid when our district quit teaching cursive, they teach it a bit in 5th grade and then after that nothing. I have my kids practice theirs.

Here is a quick article describing the benefits of cursive:

http://parentingsquad.com/7-reasons-why-cursive-writing-should-still-be-taught-in-schools

 

[Chewy]

Why is it such a big deal for parents to teach it to their children?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Parents can take an active role in their child's education and teach at home their personal preferences.

Teachers have a limited time during the day to teach kids essential strategies including literacy, logic and reasoning and history.

Adding something that is unnecessary because it's "nice" is an unfair burden to put on already overworked teachers. Not to mention the limited budget that teachers have to work with in the first place.

Please... I'm so tired hearing about overworked teachers, who isn't working harder for their money these days? Limited budget? All a child needs is a pencil and a piece of paper to learn cursive.

I'd prefer if schools taught reading, writing, and math. Let parents do the rest.




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[belimom]

I am a pediatric occupational therapist. Teaching handwriting has been my bread-and-butter for over 20 years but I have to agree with Chewy for the most part. I think cursive should be introduced to students (preferably in a unit toward the beginning of 3rd grade) but students should not be required to complete all of their work in cursive. It penalizes kids with fine motor and perceptual deficits who are otherwise intelligent kids. A child should be allowed to get their ideas down using whatever method is most efficient for them. I work with preschool through high school students (and teachers) and I can vouche for the fact that the curriculum is too jam-packed at all levels to make students struggle to get their thoughts on paper. I understand cursive is faster for some people, but not for all people.

CC - I hear you. That was my argument when I went to a parent/teacher meeting and asked why the kids couldn't choose to write in print. (My brother that I mentioned before is 43 and still can't write in cursive well - he prints very fast, though!). Despite seeing the benefits of being taught cursive, I agree that it's not for everyone. DD has fine motor issues, and I wonder what 1st-grade will be like for her if she is required to write in cursive. I have been working through Handwriting Without Tears with her, and it has helped.

I'm a School Psychologist so I totally know what you're saying - it's not for all kids. I advocate for some kids to be allowed to keyboard as soon as they can b/c it's just too difficult otherwise. The writing would take so long itself that the content would be lost - and the content is much more important than the handwriting.

 

[lizzybeth]

I agree that "no child left behind" has caused teachers to have to teach students only what they'll be tested on.

I also agree that once cursive has been taught (and it doesn't have to take up too much time in the classroom) then the student should be allowed to either print or write in cursive. My son has a beautiful print but reading his cursive gives me a headache. Don't most students once they reach middle school have to turn in papers that are printed from a computer? My kids are grown so I'm not really sure what's required now.

With spell check, grammar check and all the other things that software has to offer why is that still part of the curriculum?

Haha, I remember when my parents didn't agree with kids being allowed to use calculators in school. I feel like I sound like them now. I've always been more on the creative side so I guess I just hate to see an art like cursive taken away from schools.

ETA how many parents actually help their kids with homework? It's sad but today most parents have to work full time. When they get home from work it's all about feeding your child, spending a little quality time with them and then getting them ready for bed and school the next day. I hope that within those six hours that they're in school they can find some time to teach cursive. I guess I'm just an old fuddy duddy.

 

[keeponsearching]

I agree, the student should be allowed to choose the writing style. I had a hard time just writing neat. But I still think cursive should be taught, as a subject and thats that. I wasn't meant to write with a pencil, or use a vcr player. Sometimes I think I was born in the wrong year lol. I am much better at typing. And I have some patience with a dvd player

 

[Chewy]

Please... I'm so tired hearing about overworked teachers, who isn't working harder for their money these days? Limited budget? All a child needs is a pencil and a piece of paper to learn cursive.

I'd prefer if schools taught reading, writing, and math. Let parents do the rest.




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You're still not explaining the benefits of writing "pretty" as opposed to just writing.

And limited budgets refers to the teachers ability to teach and the time frames. Teachers are overworked simply because there are more and more students crammed into the classrooms.

It has nothing to do with the materials needed. It has to do with giving students one on one attention as they learn new skill sets.

So do the math. If you have 30 students in the classroom and you are working with them on a fine motor skill such as penmanship, how are you going to evaluate for progress and support the student as they learn this skill?

Even if you work with each child for only TWO MINUTES that's an HOUR of the day dedicated to cursive. Cursive which amounts to writing "pretty."

Total waste of time IMO.


Teaching isn't about showing students information, it's about working collaboratively with the student to engage self directed learning and ownership. The goal of the teacher is not to "teach" but to "facilitate learning" and this requires time for assessing progress and providing strategies for improvement.

 

[Linda7NJ]

You're still not explaining the benefits of writing "pretty" as opposed to just writing.

And limited budgets refers to the teachers needed to teach and the time frames. Teachers are overworked simply because there are more and more students crammed into the classrooms.

It has nothing to do with the materials needed. It has to do with giving students one on one attention as they learn new skill sets.

So do the math. If you have 30 students in the classroom and you are working with them on a fine motor skill such as penmanship, how are you going to evaluate for progress and support the student as they learn this skill?

Even if you work with each child for only TWO MINUTES that's an HOUR of the day dedicated to cursive. Cursive which amounts to writing "pretty."

Total waste of time IMO.

I admit that my experience with the public school system is limited to my own education and about nine years as a foster parent with children in public school and the two months my own child spent there.

It's been my experience that teachers are rarely, if ever, giving children one on one help of any kind. Far too often material wasn't even presented in class, it was sent home for parents to teach and help the child complete an assignment.

Students that were able to keep up, worked on their own. The ones severely lagging behind we're given tutoring help after school or special ed services or had the requirements greatly reduced. The gifted students were bored silly. Far too much time was spent on non academic things like watching Disney movies, assemblies, etc...

I once read somewhere that a typical public school day when broken down equates to an hour and fifteen minutes of actual learning. How flipping scary is that?

Cursive isn't just about writing pretty. It is about fine minor skills coordination, stimulating the creative parts of the brain. I'll write more in a few ....lil emergency here


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[Chewy]

I admit that my experience with the public school system is limited to my own education and about nine years as a foster parent with children in public school and the two months my own child spent there.

It's been my experience that teachers are rarely, if ever, giving children one on one help of any kind. Far too often material wasn't even presented in class, it was sent home for parents to teach and help the child complete an assignment.

Students that were able to keep up, worked on their own. The ones severely lagging behind we're given tutoring help after school or special ed services or had the requirements greatly reduced. The gifted students were bored silly. Far too much time was spent on non academic things like watching Disney movies, assemblies, etc...

I once read somewhere that a typical public school day when broken down equates to an hour and fifteen minutes of actual learning. How flipping scary is that?

Cursive isn't just about writing pretty. It is about fine minor skills coordination, stimulating the creative parts of the brain. I'll write more in a few ....lil emergency here


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Yep it does so I don't want that hour and fifteen to be taken up by writing pretty.

The key is to get students to feel confident in communicating their ideas and to actually participate in the classroom.

It is wrong to suggest that most of the day is filled up with watching Disney movies but if it is I can tell you why. That for everything a teacher teaches a child they have to spend time grading.

And that takes up time. I had a class in college with 20 students who were learning to write essays. It took me hours to go over their papers and point out each and every mistake.

I have a tutor working with my company now who I hired just to do this. It takes her 6 hours a week to evaluate the essays of the teachers. And that's because she evaluates it properly. (She has 6 students at a time with a limit)

Many times when the schools are showing Disney movies it's because the teacher will be sitting at the desk grading papers.

Everyone is overworked but you usually don't have to go home and take tons of materials for grading, assessment and evaluation.

Take a math teacher. She can either go down the test and mark the answer wrong, or she can evaluate the "work" for the equation and try to figure out where the student got it wrong. The teacher's goal is to find a pattern in the learning and how the student is misunderstanding the information and then show the student where they are going wrong.

This take a huge amount of time. As I said I teach teachers for a living and when I create classes I have a limit of 10 students per class so that I can see what they are getting wrong.

Consider how much time it takes to do this for each subject? Then you want to pile on an outdated skill set just because?

 

[Jan]

Some schools in Michigan have already stopped teaching cursive and also most have gone to all day kindergarten. Kids are expected to know all their alphabet and how to write their name and address and phone number before they even start school, numbers and colors and such too. They are expected to read in kindergarten. School is more intensive than when I was in school many, many years ago. My son is a teacher and his elementary school kids know more on a lot of subjects than I did when I was in high school! My own father, born around 1912, printed all his life and never learned to write in cursive. He signed his name in printing. But he could build a house or a boat, invent things, and he owned his own business that manufactured, sold, and repaired water pumps. And that was before the days of computers and calculators.