Search for Baby Gabriel now a murder investigation

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During a news briefing on Saturday, San Antonio Police Chief William McManus said detectives don't have any direct evidence that the 9-month-old boy was killed. They said the classification was made to justify the next procedural step -- searching a nearby landfill for any possible signs of the boy's body.

We can't get down about this-I say this after I teared up when I saw the thread but then I read the above statement from Cheif McManus-this to me sounds like it's just a formality. In order to search the landfill it has to be classified as a homicide. There is not any direct evidence!
 
IMHO, I believe LE has tried to play-down the homicide portion of the case because they don't want people to FORGET to look for a LIVE Gabriel.

Let's just keep the faith that someone out there has baby Gabriel and he'll soon be home with his daddy.

As long as Logan has hope, I have hope.

JMHO
fran
 
BeanE said:
Prof in his post #28

I understood that Tempe stated that they opened a dual homicide and kidnapping/missing persons investigation a couple of weeks ago


southern_comfort in her post #29

I think Tempe had a dual missing persons/homicide investigation last month.

and article quoted:
"According to Horn, a team of detectives is working both a missing persons investigation and a homicide investigation at the same time because it is unknown if boy's mother gave the child away or possibly killed him.

==========

Horn is with Tempe PD

I quoted both the above posts in my post #31. Sorry you missed them.

If you can provide a direct quote from any SA official that they had an open homicide investigation prior to today, that would be nothing short of amazing.
Click to expand...

That San Antonio wouldn't have a homicide investigation going is what would amaze me. They have been talking about landfill searches and had the landfill cordon off an area early on. Don't think they believed there'd be a live Gabriel there. Maybe they haven't had a public announcement of their homicide investigation until now, but I have no doubt homicide detectives have been working on this case before today.

ETA I would also be amazed if many of us who remember news reports about a dual missing persons/homicide investigation, whether in Tempe or San Antonio, are mistaken about what we remember. I also doubt that news sources are psychic and reported a dual investigation weeks before it happened.
 
Being procedural I see this more as a budgetary $$$$ approval thing, to open the door for permission to spend the money and resources on doing the landfill search --- not cheap.

I think that they were holding, hoping not to expend the money and resources if they could find Gabriel. However, it has now reached a point where they must address this and rule it out.

I see it as a good thing since if they search the landfill and find nothing we don't have to worry about that option. We can focus.

It *might* also put pressure on EJ to talk if she knows it is being treated as a homicide and is frightened they might find something. It also *might* be a reality check for TPS that this is serious and not just a smarta$$ game and, does she want to be associated as an accessory in a homicide?

Lets get the landfill searched and move on, it is a distraction. Hopefully.
 
STEADFAST said:
That San Antonio wouldn't have a homicide investigation going is what would amaze me. They have been talking about landfill searches and had the landfill cordon off an area early on. Don't think they believed there'd be a live Gabriel there. Maybe they haven't had a public announcement of their homicide investigation until now, but I have no doubt homicide detectives have been working on this case before today.

ETA I would also be amazed if many of us who remember news reports about a dual missing persons/homicide investigation, whether in Tempe or San Antonio, are mistaken about what we remember. I also doubt that news sources are psychic and reported a dual investigation weeks before it happened.
Click to expand...

Then cough up your link to any direct quote of a Tempe or SA PD official saying a homicide investigation was open prior to today.

It either happened, or it didn't. Facts are facts.

ETA: This is a great example of how rumor and speculation takes legs and ends up being repeated as fact, in spite of the fact that not a single person can find a single link.
 
What concerns me is that even if they don't find anything doesn't mean that EJ didn't do what she said she did. They are looking at the dumpsters from the motels I assume. What if she dumped him at a park or any other place for that matter. I hate even typing that because of course I am praying that she didn't dump him at all but there really is no way of knowing what she did with him and where she did it.
 
Police also confirm to ABC15 there are two, separate, yet parallel investigations involving the disappearance of the toddler.

According to Horn, a team of detectives is working a missing persons investigation and a homicide investigation at the same time because it is unknown if boy's mother gave the child away or possibly killed him.

"It is a very real possibility that Elizabeth killed Gabriel," Horn said. "We are holding out hope that he's alive, but we have to look at every aspect and investigate everything."
http://www.abc15.com/content/news/s...sing-Tempe-baby-a/xgsbK2cK80iD5ZWBC0ifjg.cspx

Due to updates, I can't prove this, but this was the January 30th version of this article...the homicide investigation is not new. IMO.

ETA: Google cache of the article as it was 2-3-2010, so it's kinda proof that the statements had already been made regarding homicide prior to today, 2-6-2010.
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache...eth+killed+Gabriel,"&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
 
DairyGirl said:
What concerns me is that even if they don't find anything doesn't mean that EJ didn't do what she said she did. They are looking at the dumpsters from the motels I assume. What if she dumped him at a park or any other place for that matter. I hate even typing that because of course I am praying that she didn't dump him at all but there really is no way of knowing what she did with him and where she did it.
Click to expand...
So true, and it scares me also. Fortunately, there is no statute of limitations on murder and charges have been filed, and successfully prosecuted without a body. But in those cases there usually is more evidence of a homicide than just a text message from the alleged perp. :( MOO
 
"If we had reason to believe that the baby was dead, then we would open up a homicide case," Chief McManus told News 4 WOAI. "But right now, that's not the case, and the Baby Gabriel case remains a missing person case.
http://www.woai.com/news/local/stor...eful-Baby-Gabriel/tPKoEF7Bckm2kgjxjd0rFA.cspx

But there's also this from 1-29-2010...don't know when it was originally published, so in all honesty, it looks like we are seeing a case of the left hand doing things that the right hand has no knowledge of. Since the statements of the two agencies conflict, I am going to choose to believe that we knew this a week ago, but it was only confirmed today. MOO.
 
not_my_kids said:
Police also confirm to ABC15 there are two, separate, yet parallel investigations involving the disappearance of the toddler.

According to Horn, a team of detectives is working a missing persons investigation and a homicide investigation at the same time because it is unknown if boy's mother gave the child away or possibly killed him.

"It is a very real possibility that Elizabeth killed Gabriel," Horn said. "We are holding out hope that he's alive, but we have to look at every aspect and investigate everything."
http://www.abc15.com/content/news/s...sing-Tempe-baby-a/xgsbK2cK80iD5ZWBC0ifjg.cspx

Due to updates, I can't prove this, but this was the January 30th version of this article...the homicide investigation is not new. IMO.

ETA: Google cache of the article as it was 2-3-2010, so it's kinda proof that the statements had already been made regarding homicide prior to today, 2-6-2010.
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache...eth+killed+Gabriel,"&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Click to expand...
That same article was posted here at WS on Jan 19th by AngelWhoCares.[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4702314&postcount=43"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - AZ-Gabriel Johnson, 8 months News Media and Updated Information ONLY. No Discussion.[/ame]
It's near the end.
 
Mels3kidz said:
But shouldn't the FBI have been involved in this from the beginning? She did take him across state lines.

Melissa
Click to expand...
I was also under the impression kidnapping across state lines was a Federal offense. But she's only been charged under Arizona law and it seems local authorities in AZ & TX are investigating. :waitasec:
 
Missing baby's mom could face charges in Texas
Reported by: Leila Walsh
Email: LeilaWalsh@woaitv.com
Last Update: 1/27 6:42 am

News 4 WOAI broke the news last week that police plan to search a landfill near Interstate 10 and Foster Road because Gabriel's mom told the boy's father she killed the baby, stuffed his body in a diaper bag, and threw it in a dumpster. However, Elizabeth Johnson has given conflicting stories about what happened to her son. She also said she gave the baby to a couple she met here in San Antonio. So, police have to investigate both claims. Depending on the outcome of the investigation, Johnson may face charges here.

"We don't have any cases filed in our office yet by the police department," explained Cliff Herberg of the Bexar County District Attorney's Office. "They're still investigating. But, of course, if there was evidence that determined some sort of crime occurred here in Bexar County, well then, charges could be filed

http://www.woai.com/news/local/stor...-charges-in-Texas/n7d0-nkDZE2GwzKPOYrpNg.cspx
 
panthera said:
I was also under the impression kidnapping across state lines was a Federal offense. But she's only been charged under Arizona law and it seems local authorities in AZ & TX are investigating. :waitasec:
Click to expand...
The FBI has been involved from early on, even while Elizabeth was still in Florida. http://www.woai.com/mostpopular/sto...m-of-missing-baby/1gW7IWXbyk-ZzYrCnWVD1g.cspx
The F.B.I., San Antonio Police and officers from Arizona are all involved in the search for Gabriel Johnson. They are hoping to take Elizabeth Johnson back to Arizona next week.
Click to expand...

Also, they were the ones in Nashville who checked out that one house where there was an indication Gabriel might be. http://www.kpho.com/news/22190418/detail.html
"We went, knocked on the door, and interviewed the occupants and have been unable at this point to locate the child," said FBI Special Agent Keith Moss.
Click to expand...
 
not_my_kids said:
Police also confirm to ABC15 there are two, separate, yet parallel investigations involving the disappearance of the toddler.

According to Horn, a team of detectives is working a missing persons investigation and a homicide investigation at the same time because it is unknown if boy's mother gave the child away or possibly killed him.

"It is a very real possibility that Elizabeth killed Gabriel," Horn said. "We are holding out hope that he's alive, but we have to look at every aspect and investigate everything."
http://www.abc15.com/content/news/s...sing-Tempe-baby-a/xgsbK2cK80iD5ZWBC0ifjg.cspx

Due to updates, I can't prove this, but this was the January 30th version of this article...the homicide investigation is not new. IMO.

ETA: Google cache of the article as it was 2-3-2010, so it's kinda proof that the statements had already been made regarding homicide prior to today, 2-6-2010.
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache...eth+killed+Gabriel,"&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Click to expand...

Yep that's the article previously referenced. It's the media saying what LE said, not a quote.

ETA: I'll stick with the facts.
 
STEADFAST said:
The FBI has been involved from early on, even while Elizabeth was still in Florida. http://www.woai.com/mostpopular/sto...m-of-missing-baby/1gW7IWXbyk-ZzYrCnWVD1g.cspx

Also, they were the ones in Nashville who checked out that one house where there was an indication Gabriel might be. http://www.kpho.com/news/22190418/detail.html
Click to expand...
I realized they were assisting with the investigation early on, but I guess what I'm wondering about is who determines what agency will file charges if the crime qualifies under Federal statutes?
 
panthera said:
I realized they were assisting with the investigation early on, but I guess what I'm wondering about is who determines what agency will file charges if the crime qualifies under Federal statutes?
Click to expand...

Sorry, I meant to quote Mels3kidz's post about the FBI being involved from the beginning. I'm surprised, too, that there aren't federal charges, considering the entire crime spanned multiple States. Maybe in the future? I could see the Federal Government not charging on a custodial interference case, but a kidnapping?

I just remembered that this came up in the Lauterbach case (because of perp and victim both being in the military) and I think we found out that the Feds tend to allow States to prosecute first.
 
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