Sidebar for Caylee Anthony's forum #15

[CarolinaMoon]

I also saw Motives & Murders. It was interesting that both Judge Perry and Jeff Ashton were involved. Also of note, a certain blogger from the CA trial was also featured giving commentary on the case.

What with AZLawyer and JWG shining a light on the computer forensics and reliance on a blogger for background, let's hope that MSM starts coming to us rather than we having to rely on them.

As for the duct tape, I've always believed that it was the major COD. The duct tape was extra-heavy duty since it was fire resistant. One width of tape could have covered most of Caylee's nose and mouth. Three overlapping widths were overkill, IMHO. I don't know if she died in the house or in the trunk, but I don't believe she was originally placed in the bags.

Remember, Casey didn't think ahead more than 10 minutes at a time. There weren't any searches for decomposing bodies on that computer, I'd bet. Casey never considered the possibility. It was only when she started to smell something that she backed the car into the garage and used the bags.

Also on Discovery ID last night was the case of the woman kidnapped from a Publix in similar weather. She was only deceased for 58 or so hours and searchers could smell the decomposition from a distance. That's how they located the body.

Harmony, thanks for the clean notebook page!

 

[logicalgirl]

Re Caylee being in the trunk of the car for two or three days unbagged....I dunno.
Back on the last Sidebar thread, several of us posted links to how/times a body decomposes and bug activity.

I'll try to say this as carefully as I can. Those statistics are for adults of average weight. Caylee was a tiny little girl - 38 lbs., so I think we can assume decomp would be equal to or less than the average adult - yes?

So if putrification starts after 48 hours - think a great deal of high odor leakage and puffing. Seriously - you think FCA then picked Caylee up and put her into garbage bags? In humans decomposition starts internally and works its way out because of intestinal bacteria.....thinking about that....I don't see any movement outside of garbage bags after 2 days....

So I think she taped her, bagged her and tossed her into the trunk.

We also have to think about the locogistics of how and when she put her in the trunk...so we know she parked her car in the street or in the driveway if her parents weren't home. But to put a dead child in the trunk of the car, she'd have had to pull into the garage if Caylee was unwrapped. Or...what would be that scenario?

We know from computer activity and cell phone pings that she was most likely at home during the day on the 16th. So we can assume she killed Caylee after George left for work?

 

[redkatrampant]

Thanks ANJ. I will forward to you my pbotos and videos. I have on my calerdar that Redkamp... was also going to visit her site soon and solicited stuff to take for us. I cannot locate that now that I am here, but will take those items that I remember from Redkamps list.

I will be there in March for sure! Hubby did not want to go last trip because we had the 5 year old grandprincess with us but he has conceded for March.

 

[Harmony 2]

Re Caylee being in the trunk of the car for two or three days unbagged....I dunno.
Back on the last Sidebar thread, several of us posted links to how/times a body decomposes and bug activity.

I'll try to say this as carefully as I can. Those statistics are for adults of average weight. Caylee was a tiny little girl - 38 lbs., so I think we can assume decomp would be equal to or less than the average adult - yes?

So if putrification starts after 48 hours - think a great deal of high odor leakage and puffing. Seriously - you think FCA then picked Caylee up and put her into garbage bags? In humans decomposition starts internally and works its way out because of intestinal bacteria.....thinking about that....I don't see any movement outside of garbage bags after 2 days....

So I think she taped her, bagged her and tossed her into the trunk.

We also have to think about the locogistics of how and when she put her in the trunk...so we know she parked her car in the street or in the driveway if her parents weren't home. But to put a dead child in the trunk of the car, she'd have had to pull into the garage if Caylee was unwrapped. Or...what would be that scenario?

We know from computer activity and cell phone pings that she was most likely at home during the day on the 16th. So we can assume she killed Caylee after George left for work?

I bumped the following thread entitled 'In the trunk 2.6 days Decomp Info #1 '... That would be a great place to continue this discussion...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73752&highlight=days

ETA- Attention: I just moved approximately 30 posts from Sidebar #14 into that thread regarding the 2.6 days...Just a headsup in case anyone is looking for a post... :seeya:

 

[watcher9]

I'm watching FATAL VOWS on ID channel, and there's Jeff Ashton being interviewed about a murder case! I wasn't looking at the tv but I recognized his voice. AND now.. there's Judge Perry! How bizzarre! It was Season 1/ Episode 6 "Not Again", in case anyone wants to look for it, you know the rerun like crazy on this channel.

I heard Jeff Ashton's voice too but also another voice that sounded a lot like YM. By the time I got in there, it was about over though. I'll have to see it again. I have found that some shows are reproduced under a different title, but using a lot of the same filming with different voice overs.

There are a lot of shows featuring cases from Orange County including Dr G. When shows like that are produced, is it for the money or for the knowledge? Where would that money go, to the individuals, their department or the state? I can't imagine the amount of revenue it could produce. It makes me wonder how well this money route was known to the local citizens, including FCA and her family and JB?

 

[logicalgirl]

I bumped the following thread entitled 'In the trunk 2.6 days Decomp Info #1 '... That would be a great place to continue this discussion...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73752&highlight=days

ETA- Attention: I just moved approximately 30 posts from Sidebar #14 into that thread regarding the 2.6 days...Just a headsup in case anyone is looking for a post... :seeya:

Thanks Harmony2 - Sorry about that - I'll take the hint this time!:what:

 

[Nore]

I have always wondered if FCA killed Caylee, then put the duct tape on afterwards to stage a kidnapping gone wrong. But then why not put it only over her mouth, rather than over her nose as well? :waitasec:

Which leads me to believe it's more likely that this :devil: put it over her nose and mouth as a means to end her baby's life. :cry:

Just one of those things that has been running around in my mind when I can't sleep at night...

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neesaki I agree. I can only pray she was unconcious when it was done. I have a thorn also. I read the Body Farm pages a lot! They never said Caylee wasnt given chloroform. They said there was no trace of it. They also said a person must be given it for about six months for it to show up in hair, skin, etc..if it were used just that one time it wouldn't leave a trace! (those were my words) I still think she put her out with it, did her deed and left the cloth inside the trunk. CA. was fast to say she didnt go in the trunk>>>I think she did and removed it>:furious:

 

[atthelake]

Reading so many differing opinions, and I have one which I belive I am the only one to think, and that is FCA wanted her car stolen from Amscot check cashing place. Doll in car, purse type looking thing in car next to where was a great place for a thief. Have the car stolen and voila, the other person was a suspect. But who would fall for that? The same twelve that fell for the other story.

WE. Will.never.know.

She did the lead up to it.....anyhow....No matter that we do not agree on such ..yet this is where the issue was with the jury. They could not agree how she died, therefore aquittal. (Italy judicial sitting in ..sounds good for these types of cases)

 

[Pattymarie]

Has anyone outside WS, like the law or the press ever seen the picture with the outline of the little one's body and bony prominences?

 

[Nore]

Has anyone outside WS, like the law or the press ever seen the picture with the outline of the little one's body and bony prominences?

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Hi, I believe the prosecution had the pictures. I could be wrong. It strikes me as a "picture" that would be too damning. I will never understand how evidence of any sort can be deemed too damning. Why are they there? To Find Guilt!!!! :what::seeya: or innocence.

 

[Nore]

BBM

I tend to agree with you on that point. The plastic bags would have had to have been leaking pretty badly for there to be a stain like that in the trunk. The enhanced photos showing that outline that used to be available at the Hinky Meter were chilling.

I think she bagged Caylee when she backed into the garage the evening of June 18th. Wasn't that where the identical laundry bag was found, in the garage? I believe that is the night she bagged Caylee up and decided to dispose of her body. That would also fit the timeline of approximately .7 - 2.5 days, according to Dr. Vass's testimony, that the body was decomposing in the trunk (based on the carpet samples).

It's hard to believe she could stomach bagging up her own child in that condition, but nothing surprises me with her anymore. Also, remember the pants that CA conveniently washed after the car was found. The pants were left in the car for a reason.

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Hi, I agree. I also dont think she had a clue as to what happens to a person when they die. I agree about stomaching this but she was capable of doing anything that would gain her freedom. In my estimation the pants had decomp on them. ca knew it and washed them. :what::furious:

 

[Steely Dan]

Has anyone outside WS, like the law or the press ever seen the picture with the outline of the little one's body and bony prominences?

I never could see a child's outline in the trunk stain. That's just me. It looks like a pooling of adniocipare and maybe some people see a child in it but I don't. I think Caylee was in the comforter and wouldn't have left a clear outline because of that.

 

[Whisperer]

I think fca killed Caylee the night before.

On her way out of the house, she grabbed a steak knife from the kitchen and the duct tape from the garage. She drove around the corner and called her bf. and between calls Caylee died. She put her in the trunk while she was parked on Suburban. She returned to the house and continued to talk to her bf on the phone.

I think GA was wrong about seeing her that day. IMO, he was confusing the 9th of June and the 16th of June. On the 9th of June, fca was talking about staying overnight to her father. She did with that other guy who was Hispanic. That was the 9th, not the 16th as GA said told everyone.

I still withhold some reservation though because I think Cindy is hiding something. There was a BIG reason that Cindy lost it and had a knockdown fight with fca. I think fca transposed that fight to the knock down fight with Zeniada in the park. It was Cindy who she fought on the ground, not Zenaida.

Did cindy know already (that night, the 15th) that fca harmed Caylee? Is that why she lost it and tried to strangle fca? Whatever happened, both of them hid it from George.

 

[Spice]

Cindy absolutely withheld evidence, tampered with evidence, and obstructed all the live long day to protect Casey.

But I do not believe that she knew anything about what Casey had done until the night of July 16th.

I do believe that she knew that Casey was capable of horrible things otherwise why would she have ever screamed at her "What have you done?!"

Between the 911 call and her persistence in finding Casey/Caylee, that night was Cindy being raw and honest and that is the last time that we ever saw or heard her that way again.

 

[Whisperer]

Cindy became honest AFTER fca brought up the fact that Zenaida kidnapped Caylee. Cindy wasn't honest till a possible alibi was stated. She kept the cleaned up car away from LE. She made two prior calls to LE and never stated her grandchild was missing.

She wasn't going to report UNTIL there was an alibi in place.

She knew Caylee was dead....and she knew it from day one. She chose to live in her world of fantasy, and procrastinated reporting casey and her absentee grandchild, till she was forced into reality with the car reeking of decomp. The only reason she did then was because the car was in her name. If not, I am not sure we ever would haven known Caylee was gone.

 

[GiantPickle]

i don't think CA thought for a second Caylee was dead until the car came home. I think that 911 call is the real deal - it's Oscar worthy if not. CA clearly was cleaning up evidence of something but I don't think for a second she thought it was Caylee. She didn't have to call police at all if she already "knew."

 

[grammieto5]

i don't think CA thought for a second Caylee was dead until the car came home. I think that 911 call is the real deal - it's Oscar worthy if not. CA clearly was cleaning up evidence of something but I don't think for a second she thought it was Caylee. She didn't have to call police at all if she already "knew."

This is what is confusing to me, well it's just one of the things CA did that is confusing. Why would CA clean up evidence, (I agree with you, CA was cleaning up evidence, I believe she knew what she was cleaning) but why, if she didn't know what had happened, and hadn't seen Caylee, CA knew FCA was still alive because CA had talked with FCA on the phone, IF she didn't know what the truth was why would she clean it up???

 

[rose222]

This is what is confusing to me, well it's just one of the things CA did that is confusing. Why would CA clean up evidence, (I agree with you, CA was cleaning up evidence, I believe she knew what she was cleaning) but why, if she didn't know what had happened, and hadn't seen Caylee, CA knew FCA was still alive because CA had talked with FCA on the phone, IF she didn't know what the truth was why would she clean it up???

Maybe it was just an instinctive thing to clean up the car as Cindy knew that KC was behind the mess. She probably didn't quite connect the dots till after the 911 calls.

 

[zippitydoda]

This is what is confusing to me, well it's just one of the things CA did that is confusing. Why would CA clean up evidence, (I agree with you, CA was cleaning up evidence, I believe she knew what she was cleaning) but why, if she didn't know what had happened, and hadn't seen Caylee, CA knew FCA was still alive because CA had talked with FCA on the phone, IF she didn't know what the truth was why would she clean it up???

Whether she did it on purpose or not - the fact is that CA admits to tampering with the evidence in the trunk - perhaps with a former LE officer, who I am assuming, would have been trained to preserve evidence at a potential crime scene, standing right next to her. Someone could suggest that the intent was to tamper with it enough to now make the trunk evidence inadmissible or at the very least questionable.

I wonder if they teach this at the police academy - upon finding a suspicious scene, that rather than call 911 to alert LE so they can investigate it, they are instructed to touch everything, spray cleaners and remove items.

 

[grammieto5]

Maybe it was just an instinctive thing to clean up the car as Cindy knew that KC was behind the mess. She probably didn't quite connect the dots till after the 911 calls.

Yeah maybe, I wonder how many other messes CA cleaned up after FCA?