Spain Spain - Ana Knezevich, 40, from Florida, going through divorce, missing under suspicious circumstances on trip to Madrid, 5 Feb 2024

[Charlot123]

An interesting history about the polygraph test - https://interactive.wttw.com/playlist/2023/01/03/american-experience-lie-detector

“The idea for the lie detector was that it would be a way to constrain the police themselves,” Alder says. At the time, in the early 1920s, it was common for police in America to obtain confessions via what was known as the “third degree”: torturing or beating up suspects in interrogation. The lie detector “would be a more humane kind of third degree,” Alder explains.

The article also mentions IQ tests - which, I believe, are used in United States courts.

(To be fair, the 1920es were a very special time for the US, the time of the Prohibition, the mafia, the bootleggers. So an attempt to objectify some responses could have been a commendable idea given the atmosphere.) As to IQ tests, they have been normed in different groups, so objective. Also, it is not the full IQ but what drags it up or down that might be important in school planning. Example: a person with good reading fluency but poor reading comprehension. For a long time I could not understand it until a neuropsychologist explained that it was often seen in people with high processing speed and poor working memory. (By the time the person reaches the end of the phrase, he, essentially, forgets the beginning. That at least explains an individual’s roadblocks. The science of training working memory is developing slowly.) Using full IQ as the predictor of achievements would fail. The best example would be Richard Feynman, the famed physicist and Noble Prize winner, whose IQ was 125, in high average range. Scores of books were written about Mr. Feynman, some are especially interesting to read after the success of “Oppenheimer”, but suffice it to say that once, Richard Feynman declined the invitation to Mensa, joking that he was “not smart enough” for them. Perhaps it is human ability to ask questions and challenge the world that defies measurements.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

So it sounds like there is one investigation taking place by AK's family's attorney in Spain who is the head of Spain's missing persons organization.

And perhaps the FBI and Interpol are assisting Spain in their investigation, although there has been no LE statement about that, just MSM reporting based on their unnamed sources - or by Ana's family attorney or friends and family of AK.

Joaquin Amills is representing the family as spokesperson / head of a missing persons non-profit. Felipe Henao has also contracted a lawyer here (Medina). The only investigation ongoing here is conducted by the Policía Nacional. Which would happen with almost any crime.

And yes, as you say, the PN are collaborating with the FBI. Interpol, as I understand it --having spoken to them for a podcast I made with Universal, are merely an information-sharing organisation across international police forces-- investigate nothing directly. And there will almost certainly be no statements from LE in this case in Spain or any other similar case until the investigation is over.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Very misleading headline from this Marca sports media site.

"FBI Mobilizes to find missing American woman in Madrid."

Unsurprising. This is a sports website with a famously poor translation edition that nominally covers current events. (You can see how bad the translation is in the copy).

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Not discussing DK specifically.

In principle, isn’t spreading the information about someone refusing the polygraph somewhat prejudiced? The person may simply refuse a polygraph because they feel it is junk science. It is not the question of guilt/innocence, it just shows what they think of pseudoscience.

Likewise, someone refusing to consult a psychic doesn't mean they know where the body is hidden, it just means that they don't believe in psychics.

The existence of two forms of affirmation, religious and secular, in courts, is even more concerning. Wouldn't requiring a secular affirmation as opposed to religious one, in certain areas, potentially alienate certain jurors against the defendant?

JMO - LE shouldn't make mere refusal of being subjected to a non-scientific interrogation technique public or carrying any weight. Again, my post is not in support of DK.

I guess the counter argument would be, irrespective of one's opinion of a polygraph or a horoscope or a fortune cookie, if the FBI is asking you to do a thing and you do the thing, it is telling them (and the world?) that you have nothing to hide. The unfortunate simplistic 'no smoke without fire' maxim will then, correspondingly, apply to all those that reject such a request -- fairly or unfairly.

As you say, this has nothing to do with DK or anyone else, just generally. JMO

 

[Charlot123]

I guess the counter argument would be, irrespective of one's opinion of a polygraph or a horoscope or a fortune cookie, if the FBI is asking you to do a thing and you do the thing, it is telling them (and the world?) that you have nothing to hide. The unfortunate simplistic 'no smoke without fire' maxim will then, correspondingly, apply to all those that reject such a request -- fairly or unfairly.

As you say, this has nothing to do with DK or anyone else, just generally. JMO

The down side to this would be the fact that if you are on prescription medications that almost definitely invalidate the test, the FBI can’t tell you to stop them for the test, and this way, they might end up letting a very serious criminal go because he did not fail the test. Worse, they give him the chance to say that he “passed”, while IRL, the test was merely not valid. I am not naming them, but the commonest medications are in the “invalidating” group. I am running through a huge list in my head. I forget who passed it, but someone of GRK’s level.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

The down side to this would be the fact that if you are on prescription medications that almost definitely invalidate the test, the FBI can’t tell you to stop them for the test, and this way, they might end up letting a very serious criminal go because he did not fail the test. Worse, they give him the chance to say that he “passed”, while IRL, the test was merely not valid. I am not naming them, but the commonest medications are in the “invalidating” group. I am running through a huge list in my head. I forget who passed it, but someone of GRK’s level.

Yes, this is one of the many, many problems inherent in the process. I mean all systems designed by or operated by humans will be at risk of error. Innocent people have been executed, experts gave bad opinions in court, people have walked free for gloves "not fitting." But there is a level of human error that is acceptable and one that is not.

 

[Charlot123]

Yes, this is one of the many, many problems inherent in the process. I mean all systems designed by or operated by humans will be at risk of error. Innocent people have been executed, experts gave bad opinions in court, people have walked free for gloves "not fitting." But there is a level of human error that is acceptable and one that is not.

All I can say, having watched what happens in the world these days (very, very recent treating of suspected captured terrorists - on camera), I can surely appreciate the value of presumption of innocence and the suspect’s right to refuse questioning without a lawyer, here in the US. One can criticize lawyers ad nauseam and there are jokes about them, but together, as the group, they do upheld the legality principles.

 

[kaya3627]

Joaquin Amills is representing the family as spokesperson / head of a missing persons non-profit. Felipe Henao has also contracted a lawyer here (Medina). The only investigation ongoing here is conducted by the Policía Nacional. Which would happen with almost any crime.

And yes, as you say, the PN are collaborating with the FBI. Interpol, as I understand it --having spoken to them for a podcast I made with Universal, are merely an information-sharing organisation across international police forces-- investigate nothing directly. And there will almost certainly be no statements from LE in this case in Spain or any other similar case until the investigation is over.

What is the purpose of Joaquin Amills (SOS Desaparecidos) going to the Domestic Violence court?

 

[FacelessPodcast]

What is the purpose of Joaquin Amills (SOS Desaparecidos) going to the Domestic Violence court?

Juan Manuel Medina, I'm pretty sure, is the lawyer that works for SOS. Amills is the spokesperson. The former is representing Felipe / Ana's family in the court.

 

[kaya3627]

Juan Manuel Medina, I'm pretty sure, is the lawyer that works for SOS. Amills is the spokesperson. The former is representing Felipe / Ana's family in the court.

Ah ok, so Media + Amillis are working together in a sense? What is the reason for going to court though, if LE is in charge? What good is the court?

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Ah ok, so Media + Amillis are working together in a sense? What is the reason for going to court though, if LE is in charge? What good is the court?

Yeah, exactly. I think technically Felipe will be Medina's client but that's splitting hairs. I'm assuming this is all pro bono which would make sense with what Felipe has said about the family's financial situation (and the fact that SOS is a non-profit). The police investigate the crime. The court will prepare a prosecution (or decide against the need for one). My understanding is that the latter is in the preliminary stages. But obviously, given that a particular type of court has been chosen, that gives you an indication of what the investigators likely have on their hands.

 

[indicolite22]

About the polygraph (not) being used in courts: In Murdough's federal case it looks like his failed polygraph will affect his sentencing. The deal he made previously will likely be taken off the table.

 

[Megnut]

DBM

 

[kaya3627]

About the polygraph (not) being used in courts: In Murdough's federal case it looks like his failed polygraph will affect his sentencing. The deal he made previously will likely be taken off the table.

Seems like the federal government + FBI believe in it.

 

[kaya3627]

Ana is listed as "decedent" in this case filed by Juan Felipe Henao on April 3rd, 2024.

Case PRC240001610 In Re: Estate Of: Knezevich, Ana - Trellis: Legal Intelligence + Judicial Analytics

Overview in the case of In Re: Estate Of: Knezevich, Ana number PRC240001610 in Broward County, FL.

trellis.law

___________________________________________________________________________

"Usually courts have to find a ‘reasonable’ belief that someone is dead by not only the fact of the missing person but the circumstances surrounding their disappearance. A court would also have to be convinced that reasonable and good faith efforts were made to find the person or his or her remains. Some jurisdictions may also hold up proceedings if the presumed deceased had a very large estate just to have more scrutiny.


Not all countries have the seven-year rule. Italy, for example, requires 20 years missing to be declared legally dead. One can file an application in Italy after 10 years of a person missing and then wait another 10 years for an official court adjudication."

Missing Persons: When is Someone Dead for Estate Planning Purposes? • Absolute Trust Counsel

The recent mystery surrounding the disappearance of Malaysian Flight 370 and other recent airline disasters has raised any number of legal issues that may

absolutetrustcounsel.com

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Ana is listed as "decedent" in this case filed by Juan Felipe Henao on April 3rd, 2024.

Case PRC240001610 In Re: Estate Of: Knezevich, Ana - Trellis: Legal Intelligence + Judicial Analytics

Overview in the case of In Re: Estate Of: Knezevich, Ana number PRC240001610 in Broward County, FL.

trellis.law

___________________________________________________________________________

"Usually courts have to find a ‘reasonable’ belief that someone is dead by not only the fact of the missing person but the circumstances surrounding their disappearance. A court would also have to be convinced that reasonable and good faith efforts were made to find the person or his or her remains. Some jurisdictions may also hold up proceedings if the presumed deceased had a very large estate just to have more scrutiny.


Not all countries have the seven-year rule. Italy, for example, requires 20 years missing to be declared legally dead. One can file an application in Italy after 10 years of a person missing and then wait another 10 years for an official court adjudication."

Missing Persons: When is Someone Dead for Estate Planning Purposes? • Absolute Trust Counsel

The recent mystery surrounding the disappearance of Malaysian Flight 370 and other recent airline disasters has raised any number of legal issues that may

absolutetrustcounsel.com

That’s so sad. Really feel for him / the family.

 

[Sundog]

Ana is listed as "decedent" in this case filed by Juan Felipe Henao

Case PRC240001610 In Re: Estate Of: Knezevich, Ana - Trellis: Legal Intelligence + Judicial Analytics

Overview in the case of In Re: Estate Of: Knezevich, Ana number PRC240001610 in Broward County, FL.

trellis.law

It also lists that they are petitioning for "Conservatorship over Estate of Absentee Ana Knezevich."

So the family has likely asked Henao to represent them in Probate Court in Florida in order to safeguard Ana's share of the marital assets and make sure DK doesn't dispose of assets that should be shared with Ana.

If they are claiming that AK is deceased, then they will have to present proof to Probate Court.

Also, if there is no will and AK is declared deceased by the courts, then wouldn't it be usual that the spouse inherits all the assets if there are no children involved? I suppose it depends on which state you live in. In my state, all assets go to the spouse in the event of the death of one of the married persons if there is no will. If that is the case in Florida, then if AK is declared deceased by the court, then all assets would revert to DK since they were still married. JMO, would have to research Florida law on this.

ETA: For the court to declare person deceased without evidence then I think there is likely a waiting time to do that and maybe probate court isn't the court that makes that declaration?

It will be interesting to see the evidence and "exhibits" that Henao will present to establish his claim.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

It also lists that they are petitioning for "Conservatorship over Estate of Absentee Ana Knezevich."

So the family has likely asked Henao to represent them in Probate Court in Florida in order to safeguard Ana's share of the marital assets and make sure DK doesn't dispose of assets that should be shared with Ana.

If they are claiming that AK is deceased, then they will have to present proof to Probate Court.

Also, if there is no will and AK is declared deceased by the courts, then wouldn't it be usual that the spouse inherits all the assets if there are no children involved? I suppose it depends on which state you live in. In my state, all assets go to the spouse in the event of the death of one of the married persons if there is no will. If that is the case in Florida, then if AK is declared deceased by the court, then all assets would revert to DK since they were still married. JMO, would have to research Florida law on this.

ETA: For the court to declare person deceased without evidence then I think there is likely a waiting time to do that and maybe probate court isn't the court that makes that declaration?

It will be interesting to see the evidence and "exhibits" that Henao will present to establish his claim.

Yeah, I wondered about this. I assume they must have recently been informed of something? Otherwise, it would seem an odd move to go forward with this on the basis of probability.

 

[Sundog]

It also lists that they are petitioning for "Conservatorship over Estate of Absentee Ana Knezevich."

So the family has likely asked Henao to represent them in Probate Court in Florida in order to safeguard Ana's share of the marital assets and make sure DK doesn't dispose of assets that should be shared with Ana.

If they are claiming that AK is deceased, then they will have to present proof to Probate Court.

Also, if there is no will and AK is declared deceased by the courts, then wouldn't it be usual that the spouse inherits all the assets if there are no children involved? I suppose it depends on which state you live in. In my state, all assets go to the spouse in the event of the death of one of the married persons if there is no will. If that is the case in Florida, then if AK is declared deceased by the court, then all assets would revert to DK since they were still married. JMO, would have to research Florida law on this.

ETA: For the court to declare person deceased without evidence then I think there is likely a waiting time to do that and maybe probate court isn't the court that makes that declaration?

It will be interesting to see the evidence and "exhibits" that Henao will present to establish his claim.

^^^
Adding to my post above.

It looks like it will take 5 years to declare a missing person is deceased, according to Florida Law.

1) Proof of Death
The most common method of proving to the court that a person is dead is with an authenticated copy of the death certificate. In the absence of a death certificate a person who is missing for at least 5 years can be presumed dead if the person’s absence cannot be explained after a diligent search. The date of death would be at the end of the 5 year period, unless there is evidence establishing that death occurred earlier.

2.) If there is no will by AK and no children then her spouse will inherit the entire estate.

For info on both of the above in Florida Law -

Florida Statutes, Section 733.209: Estate of Missing Persons

Free Consultation - Call (561) 710-4000 - Stephen Bilkis & Associates is dedicated to providing our clients with legal services in Wills & Trusts and Probate cases. Florida Statutes, Section 733.209: Estate of Missing Persons - Palm Beach County Wills & Trusts Lawyer

www.flprobategroup.com

 

[kaya3627]

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