Stranger Abduction Theories #2

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"Stranger" is a relative term. Kyron would likely know and might have gone with many of the parents and parent volunteers, staff, cafeteria workers, etc. who would not attract any notice because they were supposed to be where they were. It would only take a few seconds to get from a door to a vehicle.

Also, there was some time after everybody left the school in the afternoon and when Kyron's parents discovered him missing that would allow somebody to remove him from the school with minimal chance of being caught.
 
After walking around the school and thinking about what it would have been like with the events going on, the only way I can fathom a stranger abduction is if they exited out the back way and through the field that leads to the trees. Maybe Kyron was wondering around back there and someone got him that way? That's the only way I can see that happening.
Kimster, I am inclined to think that Kyron physically walked out alone;this could go virtually unnoticed,imo. That could have been to follow TH or to follow another person that was of appeal to him. It's not hard to get a youngster to a car with a simple enticement. What I really cannot get past, is why anyone would choose to do this at school of all places. It is a long shot to get someone out completely undetected, yet, that is what happened.
There is such a huge missing piece here. Because to be honest, while I think TH is involved, disappearing from the school in such a way does not fit a family or a stranger abduction to me.
Now that alien Christmas siggy does have me thinking though.
 
The thing is that parking is an issue there when an event is going on. I would think SOMEONE saw him going out the front to the car, even if it was with TH. However, the back area has some seclusion to it.

For a long time I wondered if he didn't wander off on his own into those trees and even mentioned it to Free when we were there. But it has been searched and searched so I moved away from that speculation.
 
Here's the area behind the school. Another local mentioned that it might not have been mowed down on that day, but I'm not sure about that information.

http://s876.photobucket.com/albums/ab324/sym4sar/Kyron%20-%20August%202010/?action=view&current=100_1480.jpg

Oh I do not think he went out to the back trees or fields at all. I think that would have been noticeable.
The problem I have is nothing fits a stranger abduction and nothing fits a parental abduction.
He just disappeared from a school full of people and no one saw anything.

TH is the most likely suspect based on what we know and her behavior supports that.
 
If not for the various photos we've seen of the search areas near the school, I would put Kyron being out there out of my mind...but the thing is, he could be, no matter who took him or how he got there, and it would be very possible to miss him.
 
The problem I have is nothing fits a stranger abduction and nothing fits a parental abduction.
He just disappeared from a school full of people and no one saw anything.

TH is the most likely suspect based on what we know and her behavior supports that.
You are exactly right JBean. We don't have nearly enough information about the specifics of that morning at Skyline to say one thing is more likely than another. Whatever happened, the answer we have right now is...Kyron's disappearance went unnoticed simply because it did.

I started this case believing he was lost, the victim of a pedophile or even run over by accident, and have moved toward Terri being responsible since LE released the June 18th flier focusing on her. Right now I'd give Terri an 85% probability of being responsible, not fighting for baby K has pushed me another 5% in her direction. But I still leave that small 15% window open to something else.
 
I would LE should know by now, approx. how many adults were really there, if they indeed interviewed all students and parents in those early weeks..but I don't recall any real mention of a number.
From Oregon Live, June 8, 2010

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_hormans_disappearance_be.html

Searchers are looking at "more specific areas" around the school, Gates said, but wouldn't elaborate. Investigators also have interviewed 99 percent of the students and talked with most of the school's staff and parents, he said. At this point, police don't believe they need to spread the search nationwide.

Also, if you recall, the FBI was involved and helped with the school interviews. In fact, they made the school their search headquarters.
Parents/Students Interviewed

Police Spokesperson: "All day you'll see activity at the school, children coming in with their parents to be interviewed. Simultaneously we are doing a search - it's a grid search. . . . "It could be up to 300 (interviews) because the school does have 300 students. And with family added it could be a really large number of people here all day."

FBI Spokesperson: "The FBI is here in an assistance role. . . . We can sometimes bring people in large numbers which we have been doing since Friday night. We have our Child Abduction Rapid Deployment team (the CARD team) and that is a standard procedure in a missing child case. . . . That is a regional team and we're lucky enough to have three members of that team here in Oregon but we've flown in other members of that team from other parts of the country including a Profiler from Quanitco who is now working with the investigators to come up with some ideas in order to get the most complete picture possible of Kyron - what did he like, what did he not like, would he have left on his own, was he adventursome or was he more shy.

Search Spokesperson: "What they're doing (in the grid search) is basically arm's length. If there are places where they need to get underneath brush where a child might crawl, they'll search everything."
 
Here's the area behind the school. Another local mentioned that it might not have been mowed down on that day, but I'm not sure about that information.

http://s876.photobucket.com/albums/...August 2010/?action=view&current=100_1480.jpg

I thought that when I was looking at the pictures (not the back specifically, but the part near the soccer fields and the slope downward) but then you'd think there would be a sign or trail in the long grass if he went off the grid, or a scent for the dogs to pick up... however maybe in a place where so many children run and fall and skid on the ground in play and roll around there are too many mixed messages.
 
Kimster, I am inclined to think that Kyron physically walked out alone;this could go virtually unnoticed,imo. That could have been to follow TH or to follow another person that was of appeal to him. It's not hard to get a youngster to a car with a simple enticement. What I really cannot get past, is why anyone would choose to do this at school of all places. It is a long shot to get someone out completely undetected, yet, that is what happened.
There is such a huge missing piece here. Because to be honest, while I think TH is involved, disappearing from the school in such a way does not fit a family or a stranger abduction to me.
Now that alien Christmas siggy does have me thinking though.

I just re-read some of the Ted Bundy books, so good old Ted is on my mind.

He described to Stephen Michaud and Hugh Aynesworth how he developed into a killer via a process of many, many successive approximations. He started out as a peeping tom and by doing it every evening when he had no other commitments, he gained proficiency. Then he started following women pedestrians at night, until he was skilful enough to follow them for many blocks without them showing any signs of noticing him. Then he started breaking into homes but leaving as soon as anyone saw him. And so on.

Bundy and/or the writers spent a lot of time on the emotions driving the behaviour but what I found fascinating as a dog trainer was the behaviour components. Setting aside motivation, Bundy basically taught himself to be an effective predator by giving each of the component skills a lot of practise.

And then I think about one of my best friends, who was a sniper in the Army. He was very motivated to hone his own skills because those skills would be a significant factor in his own personal survival.

So one thing he thought of to do on his own was to stalk and catch feral cats on base. He reasoned that feral cats are innately wary and cautious, so if he could sneak up on a feral cat successfully using the skills he'd been instructed in, he could do so to a human being. He would go out at night (when the cats were most active) and get close enough to one without using any sort of bait or lure to grab it. Then he put it in a cage and took it to the local animal shelter.

My friend was using his skills to serve his country and help keep himself alive while doing so. He's a good guy and obviously he did survive. But it's not too difficult to imagine someone with less honourable intentions developing the same skills for evil purposes.

All this is my rambling way of saying that there are predators who habitually keep practising their skills as often as possible. If, while they are practising, they spot a victim... well, then you have an Amber Dubois or Chelsea King situation, a Somer Thompson situation, etc.
 
I just re-read some of the Ted Bundy books, so good old Ted is on my mind.

He described to Stephen Michaud and Hugh Aynesworth how he developed into a killer via a process of many, many successive approximations. He started out as a peeping tom and by doing it every evening when he had no other commitments, he gained proficiency. Then he started following women pedestrians at night, until he was skilful enough to follow them for many blocks without them showing any signs of noticing him. Then he started breaking into homes but leaving as soon as anyone saw him. And so on.

Bundy and/or the writers spent a lot of time on the emotions driving the behaviour but what I found fascinating as a dog trainer was the behaviour components. Setting aside motivation, Bundy basically taught himself to be an effective predator by giving each of the component skills a lot of practise.

And then I think about one of my best friends, who was a sniper in the Army. He was very motivated to hone his own skills because those skills would be a significant factor in his own personal survival.

So one thing he thought of to do on his own was to stalk and catch feral cats on base. He reasoned that feral cats are innately wary and cautious, so if he could sneak up on a feral cat successfully using the skills he'd been instructed in, he could do so to a human being. He would go out at night (when the cats were most active) and get close enough to one without using any sort of bait or lure to grab it. Then he put it in a cage and took it to the local animal shelter.

My friend was using his skills to serve his country and help keep himself alive while doing so. He's a good guy and obviously he did survive. But it's not too difficult to imagine someone with less honourable intentions developing the same skills for evil purposes.

All this is my rambling way of saying that there are predators who habitually keep practicing their skills as often as possible. If, while they are practising, they spot a victim... well, then you have an Amber Dubois or Chelsea King situation, a Somer Thompson situation, etc.
Successive approximations to a goal is classic Skinner; very interesting post, thank you. I remember teaching a pigeon to push the lever for a reward in my Skinner box when I was in college.
 
Skyline is very out of the way, making it hard to imagine that a total stranger found his way there to abduct a child that morning. If Kyron was abducted by someone unrelated to him, I believe it was someone connected to the school in some way. MOO

All JMO
 
I wonder if the dogs found any scent of Kyron at all. Wouldn't they have followed a scent trail if he walked anywhere out to the parking lot? If the dogs found nothing outside the school of Kyron, then he must have been murdered or drugged unconscious inside the school and put into some sort of container, then removed from the school whenever, could have been at any time from 8:45 to 3:30. There were a lot of parents removing projects that day to their cars. There also would have been your normal delivery/pick up people. There was mowing going on of the field, was there other landscaping going on that day? What do they do with their clippings? I wish I knew whether or not the dogs found ANYTHING at all.
 
Oh I do not think he went out to the back trees or fields at all. I think that would have been noticeable.
The problem I have is nothing fits a stranger abduction and nothing fits a parental abduction.
He just disappeared from a school full of people and no one saw anything.

TH is the most likely suspect based on what we know and her behavior supports that.

respectfully BBM

That is a pretty common description of the opportunistic stranger abduction, though.

That kind of person is mentally prepared to recognize the opportunity and act on it in a flash, and it is absolutely shocking how fast they can move. I've seen a demonstration similar to the one GrainneDhu described upthread -- at a Scout council training session, the local police demonstrated how fast a kid could disappear from a store. A trained woman police officer, all of five feet tall, grabbed a four-foot-tall volunteer Boy Scout in a checkout line, standing no more than six feet from his mother (probably closer, now that I think about it), and had him into her car in the parking lot in less than sixty seconds. She got him out there faster than I would have thought possible to walk, and he was more or less on his feet. Two different people coming into the store looked straight at them and didn't notice anything wrong. And he tried to fight and he tried to scream or signal, but he couldn't do anything.

When the policewoman came back in, she was annoyed that the people had even looked at her; she said usually she gets out completely unnoticed.
 
I think Kyron walking out without anyone noticing in general(as far as we know) is the oddest part of the whole thing.
If he walked out voluntarily with another person, to be honest, I am not sure anyone would even notice that on a day of relatives, friends and family.

What I am saying is it is equally as odd that no one is reported as seeing Kyron walk out and get in a car with TH as it is that he was not reported as walking out with a stranger.

I for one do not subscribe to the theory that how Kyron left school that day went UNSEEN...it just hasn't been released to those who ponder SA theories & the rest of us.

How Kyron exited the school and left that day IS known (imo) and I am going to even go so far as to theorize that LE knows this information as well. At least one witness and LE know of this piece of information.

However, just that one piece does not a case make...strong enough to arrest & indict for the justice (I believe) LE seeks of Kyron's perpetrator.

I think a SA would be so much easier of a horror to swallow than the one I do subscribe to...that Kyron's stepmother who was entrusted to care & love this child...failed him.
 
I think that if LE had that one witness who saw Kyron leave with Terri, added to the various e-mails, cell pings, changing stories, etc. she would have been charged with kidnapping by now. I don't believe they have a witness.
 
respectfully BBM

That is a pretty common description of the opportunistic stranger abduction, though.

That kind of person is mentally prepared to recognize the opportunity and act on it in a flash, and it is absolutely shocking how fast they can move. I've seen a demonstration similar to the one GrainneDhu described upthread -- at a Scout council training session, the local police demonstrated how fast a kid could disappear from a store. A trained woman police officer, all of five feet tall, grabbed a four-foot-tall volunteer Boy Scout in a checkout line, standing no more than six feet from his mother (probably closer, now that I think about it), and had him into her car in the parking lot in less than sixty seconds. She got him out there faster than I would have thought possible to walk, and he was more or less on his feet. Two different people coming into the store looked straight at them and didn't notice anything wrong. And he tried to fight and he tried to scream or signal, but he couldn't do anything.

When the policewoman came back in, she was annoyed that the people had even looked at her; she said usually she gets out completely unnoticed.

I would think that her being a female makes a difference. Usually, people don't look twice at a well-groomed woman if she is acting in a somewhat aggressive manner toward a child. Most people would generally assume it was a badly-behaving child who needed some discipline. MOO.

ETA: I have done this in a restaurant with my youngest daughter. She was being extremely disrespectful and inappropriate in public. I marched her butt outside to have a talk. I held her by her arm the whole way out. I'm sure my face looked like a mad mom. Most people just looked away.
 
I wonder if the dogs found any scent of Kyron at all. Wouldn't they have followed a scent trail if he walked anywhere out to the parking lot? If the dogs found nothing outside the school of Kyron, then he must have been murdered or drugged unconscious inside the school and put into some sort of container, then removed from the school whenever, could have been at any time from 8:45 to 3:30. There were a lot of parents removing projects that day to their cars. There also would have been your normal delivery/pick up people. There was mowing going on of the field, was there other landscaping going on that day? What do they do with their clippings? I wish I knew whether or not the dogs found ANYTHING at all.

Well the dogs better have found Kyron's scent in the parking lot between school and place Terri parked, because that is how he arrived there that day. My guess is that even if the dogs hit on a scent between the school and the place Terri parked, it could as easily have been the path he took to go in as the one he took to come back out. His scent should also have been all over the school, the playground, possibly the soccer field and probably close to several entrance/exit doors as well - the ones he took to recess, the one they exited to get out to the school bus or come in from the school bus if it was a different door than the one you'd come in if your mom drove you... .etc.
 
I for one do not subscribe to the theory that how Kyron left school that day went UNSEEN...it just hasn't been released to those who ponder SA theories & the rest of us.

How Kyron exited the school and left that day IS known (imo) and I am going to even go so far as to theorize that LE knows this information as well. At least one witness and LE know of this piece of information.

However, just that one piece does not a case make...strong enough to arrest & indict for the justice (I believe) LE seeks of Kyron's perpetrator.

I think a SA would be so much easier of a horror to swallow than the one I do subscribe to...that Kyron's stepmother who was entrusted to care & love this child...failed him.
If they know for a fact with whom Kyron left the school I have no doubt said person would be arrested.

no doubt.
 
I would think that her being a female makes a difference. Usually, people don't look twice at a well-groomed woman if she is acting in a somewhat aggressive manner toward a child. Most people would generally assume it was a badly-behaving child who needed some discipline. MOO.

ETA: I have done this in a restaurant with my youngest daughter. She was being extremely disrespectful and inappropriate in public. I marched her butt outside to have a talk. I held her by her arm the whole way out. I'm sure my face looked like a mad mom. Most people just looked away.

Yes, good point. I agree most people would assume an angry screaming child being marched out of a public place with an adult was a misbehaving child being removed for disciplinary reasons -- and at least 999 times out of a thousand, they're going to be right. Something has to be really out of the ordinary before people notice it.
 
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