Summary of Damien's Mental Health History

[Cher Lockhomes]

Fair enough, DE has an unstable psyche as do a large percentage of the world poulation. Where is the evidence that connects him to this murder?

DE tells lies, as do a large percentage of the world population, where is the evidence that connects him to this murder ?

DE is a sinister individual who dabbles in all sorts of strange things that lot's of people have no idea about. Where is the evidence that connects him to this murder ?

DE is probably not a killer, and he's not an angel, something in the middle. where is the middle ? There is no middle in a murder case.

I surmise DE may just be a surrogate.

 

[Userid]

Having been hospitalized for depression myself I can tell you it is very unusual behavior even for a psychiatric patient. There is a difference between 'psychosis' and 'psychopath'. Damian may have been depressed and had bipolar (delusions of grandieur) making him have episodes of feeling godlike which combined with sadistic and homicidal tendencies would quite easily create the perfect storm. Given his obsession with blood drinking and violence I am surprised many people dont see the correlation between his specific fantasies (including the influence of Crowley, who BTW believed in sacrificing innocents and sexual abuse, almost as if he wanted to take hedonism to a whole new level) and the nature of the killings. These killings do not seem like a crime of passion by an enraged step father. They appear to be grossly sadistic, a thrill kill. Believe it or not teenagers are perfectly capable of being cruel and my hypothesis is that Damian egged the others on, to see just how depraved they could be. I honestly believe most of us, who have empathy go into denial when faced with this type of brutality . It is almost impossible for the average person to comprehend such cruelty and psychopathy especially committed by what were essentially three innocent looking teenagers. As much as Damian's Gothic look and interest in Metallica was used to make out these biblical hicks were pigeonholing him for being an anarchic teen (common, rebellion against a deeply religious town) ...he has become to many a veritable and charismatic alternative symbol of rock stars and he's good looking and articulate. He fits the profile to a tea. From my experience first hand with psychopaths I can tell you they ate experts at manipulation and can fool anyone. For me exhibit 500 was some of the most damning evidence against him. I reiterate...if anyone could empathize with the stigma related to mental illness, alternative clothing , psych hospitals and subsequent discrimination it is me. Yet his behavior and violent fantasies and acts are beyond anything ive seen and ive seen a lot of bizarre behavior, particularly in the public system. To the commenter who said this is normal teen behavior: really? With all due respect I find this to be a strange statement. Even his own family were scared of him. This to me is not just angsty teen bravado, though it has widely been painted as such.

Sent from my 5080Q using Tapatalk

Precisely. I think this is what bothers a lot of people who study the case -- when supporters simply try to paint him as just another "misunderstood poor goth kid" while glossing over this report and ignoring the eyewitness accounts of his animal cruelty by multiple people; couple that with the multiple animal skulls recovered by police, and it isn't hard to put two and two together (for some, anyway). Granted, this doesn't prove he is a murderer, but it does prove he wasn't just another typical goth kid who was targeted because he work black and listened to Metallica, as many like to believe.

 

[Cappuccino]

Precisely. I think this is what bothers a lot of people who study the case -- when supporters simply try to paint him as just another "misunderstood poor goth kid" while glossing over this report and ignoring the eyewitness accounts of his animal cruelty by multiple people; couple that with the multiple animal skulls recovered by police, and it isn't hard to put two and two together (for some, anyway). Granted, this doesn't prove he is a murderer, but it does prove he wasn't just another typical goth kid who was targeted because he work black and listened to Metallica, as many like to believe.

The reason supporters are not impressed with attempts to paint Damien as anything more sinister than a rebellious teen is that they depend almost entirely on taking Exhibit 500 as gospel. There are two reasons why this doesn't hold any credibility...

1) The claims made in Exhibit 500 have never been tested. None of these supposed eyewitnesses have ever been cross examined, none of their claims have ever been investigated or verified.

2) The people who compiled Exhibit 500 had an agenda in doing so. It was a document produced by Damien's defense team with the express motive of making him look as mad as possible just in case he was convicted so they could try and use it to avoid the death penalty.

You could also imply a third reason to suspect some of the contents of Exhibit 500 which stems from point number 2 above - the interviews with witnesses quoted in that document were all carried out between Damien's arrest and the end of the Echols/Baldwin trial. In other words, while he was all over the news as the accused leader of a satanist gang that killed three children. That's the kind of thing which taints witness evidence, especially among people who didn't like Damien for some reason of their own in the first place.

 

[Userid]

^ The number 2 doesn't help your cause. That's all the more damning that his own defense team felt it necessary to go that route.

Many of those claims were made by professionals in the medical field, with regard to his state of mind, etc.. Also, DE was medicated. You're throwing the baby out with the bath water.

 

[Cappuccino]

^ The number 2 doesn't help your cause. That's all the more damning that his own defense team felt it necessary to go that route.

Many of those claims were made by professionals in the medical field, with regard to his state of mind, etc.. Also, DE was medicated. You're throwing the baby out with the bath water.

No I disagree about point 2. His defense team knew that the death penalty would be on the table, they'd already seen Jessie convicted, preparing for a potential penalty phase to the trial was simply them doing their job properly. That doesn't change the fact that the agenda with which Exhibit 500 was compiled renders it suspect as a source, to say the least.

 

[Userid]

^ Again, many of the sources used in the document are credible.

JM was tried separately for a reason. Only the defense can explain why they assembled that document; they very easily could have done so for an insanity plea, which again, is more damning than anything.

 

[Cappuccino]

^ Again, many of the sources used in the document are credible.

JM was tried separately for a reason. Only the defense can explain why they assembled that document; they very easily could have done so for an insanity plea, which again, is more damning than anything.

I've no idea why you're telling me why Jessie was tried separately, that's completely irrelevant to the conversation. Exhibit 500 was compiled by the Echols defense team as a plan B if there was to be a penalty phase to the trial. Therefore, it was compiled with an agenda which renders it suspect. The fact that so many people go to Exhibit 500 as their first or second port of call when explaining why they believe the wm3 to be guilty makes those of us with a more skeptical mindset raise an eyebrow.

 

[Userid]

Because you brought it up (JM). And yes, it is completely irrelevant -- that was my point.

Why it was compiled isn't nearly as important as the facts it contains -- and yes, they are facts, by trained and medical professionals. You act as if everything in the report is unsubstantiated gossip, which is beyond disingenuous. Is everything gospel? No, but again, don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

DE wasn't just another goth kid. This is undeniable. That doesn't make him a murderer, but at the same token, it doesn't make him just another goth kid.

 

[Cappuccino]

Because you brought it up (JM). And yes, it is completely irrelevant -- that was my point.

Why it was compiled isn't nearly as important as the facts it contains -- and yes, they are facts, by trained and medical professionals. You act as if everything in the report is unsubstantiated gossip, which is beyond disingenuous. Is everything gospel? No, but again, don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

DE wasn't just another goth kid. This is undeniable. That doesn't make him a murderer, but at the same token, it doesn't make him just another goth kid.

I brought up Jessie's conviction because it happened before the Echols/Baldwin trial and could therefore have influenced his defense team to think they needed a plan B in the event that Damien might find himself facing the death penalty.

Why it was compiled is important when it was compiled with the express intention of making Damien look as mad as possible. Opinions, including from trained medical professionals, were sought with that purpose in mind and fleshed out with what I can only describe as unsubstantiated gossip and exaggerations. Exhibit 500 is therefore useless as evidence against even Damien, more useless still against Jason and Jessie.

Damien wasn't a goth at all, I've no idea who started that straw man. Robert Smith from The Cure is a goth, Damien Echols was, and afaik still is, a heavy metal fan with weird religious ideas. None of which has any relevance to the guilt or innocence of the WM3.

 

[Userid]

^ I know when it happened. It's still irrelevant, and there is zero proof that is why the report was assembled. You're basing that on pure conjecture.

You're splitting hairs with your "DE isn't goth; this is what's goth" argument.

I also agree that has no relevance, but it's brought up by supporters and Joe and Bruce many times (i.e. "he was targeted because he wore black, listened to Metallica" etc.).

 

[Cappuccino]

^ I know when it happened. It's still irrelevant, and there is zero proof that is why the report was assembled. You're basing that on pure conjecture.

You're splitting hairs with your "DE isn't goth; this is what's goth" argument.

I also agree that has no relevance, but it's brought up by supporters and Joe and Bruce many times (i.e. "he was targeted because he wore black, listened to Metallica" etc.).

Its fairly common knowledge that the report was assembled to make Damien look insane in case there was a penalty phase to the trial. That's far from irrelevant when assessing the credibility of the report.

I reserve the right to split that hair given that people keep repeating it. Damien wasn't a goth, end of.

Supporters are well within their rights to bring up that wearing black and liking Metallica were part of the reason they were convicted, because both of those things formed part of the case for the prosecution. Taken from the evidence of Dale Griffis at the Echols/Baldwin trial....

"The State has introduced 15 black tee shirts that they seized at the home of Baldwin. If any person wears a black tee shirt, that is a factor that I would consider in determining if this case has trappings of occultism."

Taken from the evidence of Bryn Ridge at the same trial....

Ford: How many white T-shirts did you take?
Ridge: None.
Ford: How many were there?
Ridge: I didn't see any.
Ford: You didn't see any white T-shirts?
Ridge: No sir.
Ford: See any grey T-shirts?
Ridge: Not that I can recall, no sir.
Ford: The only - are you saying the only T-shirts he had were black T-shirts?
Ridge: That's the shirts that I found, yes sir.
Ford: And you didn't see a single white T-shirt?
Ridge: Not that I can recall.

The above exchange concerns Jason Baldwin rather than Damien Echols, but it would be obtuse for anyone to try and deny that wearing black was presented to the Echols/Baldwin jury as a sign of guilt.

 

[Userid]

^ Of course they're within their rights to bring it up; doesn't mean it has any relevance though.

I'd say DE's interest in Aleister Crawley, his drawings symbolizing sacrifice, and his attempts to downplay these interests (which I don't blame him for trying) were what really was the focus. Fogelman even states this in his closing arguments: "Anything wrong with wearing black, in and of itself? No. Anything wrong with etc. etc.? No."

The Ford/Ridge exchange -- again, the Defense brings that up; not the prosecution. The prosecution brought up things like Crawley, occultism, Griffis -- they didn't bring up the fact that they wore black and liked Metallica. It's quite plausible to assume that the majority of clothing JB owned was black on top of it; you have NH saying she saw individuals wearing black clothing on the service road also (she described seeing DT wearing a black t-shirt), which would make sense why so many were recovered.

Lastly, I know he wasn't a goth kid; I've been saying all along, he wasn't your typical goth kid. He was worse.

 

[dogmatica]

Having been hospitalized for depression myself I can tell you it is very unusual behavior even for a psychiatric patient. There is a difference between 'psychosis' and 'psychopath'. Damian may have been depressed and had bipolar (delusions of grandieur) making him have episodes of feeling godlike which combined with sadistic and homicidal tendencies would quite easily create the perfect storm. Given his obsession with blood drinking and violence I am surprised many people dont see the correlation between his specific fantasies (including the influence of Crowley, who BTW believed in sacrificing innocents and sexual abuse, almost as if he wanted to take hedonism to a whole new level) and the nature of the killings. These killings do not seem like a crime of passion by an enraged step father. They appear to be grossly sadistic, a thrill kill. Believe it or not teenagers are perfectly capable of being cruel and my hypothesis is that Damian egged the others on, to see just how depraved they could be. I honestly believe most of us, who have empathy go into denial when faced with this type of brutality . It is almost impossible for the average person to comprehend such cruelty and psychopathy especially committed by what were essentially three innocent looking teenagers. As much as Damian's Gothic look and interest in Metallica was used to make out these biblical hicks were pigeonholing him for being an anarchic teen (common, rebellion against a deeply religious town) ...he has become to many a veritable and charismatic alternative symbol of rock stars and he's good looking and articulate. He fits the profile to a tea. From my experience first hand with psychopaths I can tell you they ate experts at manipulation and can fool anyone. For me exhibit 500 was some of the most damning evidence against him. I reiterate...if anyone could empathize with the stigma related to mental illness, alternative clothing , psych hospitals and subsequent discrimination it is me. Yet his behavior and violent fantasies and acts are beyond anything ive seen and ive seen a lot of bizarre behavior, particularly in the public system. To the commenter who said this is normal teen behavior: really? With all due respect I find this to be a strange statement. Even his own family were scared of him. This to me is not just angsty teen bravado, though it has widely been painted as such.

Sent from my 5080Q using Tapatalk

Great post. Unfortunately, as they always do, supporters of these 3 child murdering monsters will completely ignore it. It's astounding. You're dead on about Echols and the kind of feelings he seems to generate with the type of people who have him up on some sort of pedestal. The poster who constantly claims to be a teacher and says all of Echols' extremely disturbing and psychopathic behavior was "just normal teenage angst" is more than a little confused, and/or utterly dishonest.

Echols isn't even that good of a manipulator, but he sure knows how to play his audience. Critical thinkers see right past it. He seems to be able to play people who somehow felt or feel disenfranchised, or somehow feel they relate to the poor outsider who was bullied and convicted because he wore black and listened to Metallica.

I'm Echols' age. I had long hair, played guitar, worshipped Metallica and was an outcast and bullied in school. So were my friends. I never, ever encountered anyone as psychopathic and disturbed as Echols. And if I did, I would've gotten far, far away from them. The information in the 500, and Echols' own words are nothing even close to resembling normal teenaged angst and disillusionment. His own words and the analysis done on him by multiple mental health care professionals are terrifying, and enough to tell me this was a very dangerous and disturbed young man who had a blood lust, a violent nature and a deep seated hatred for everyone. He is a psychopath. Combine that with the rest of the evidence (supporters - don't bother asking me what that is - it's all a matter of public record - you just choose to ignore it) and Misskelley's many, many, MANY confessions - and you've got a truth so glaring, so obvious - it's utterly astounding you've got people defending these child killers.

 

[dogmatica]

Where is the evidence that connects him to this murder?

It's statements/questions like these that completely destroy the credibility of supporters. You are either obtuse or in denial. Or utterly dishonest.

 

[dogmatica]

The reason supporters are not impressed with attempts to paint Damien as anything more sinister than a rebellious teen is that they depend almost entirely on taking Exhibit 500 as gospel. There are two reasons why this doesn't hold any credibility...

1) The claims made in Exhibit 500 have never been tested. None of these supposed eyewitnesses have ever been cross examined, none of their claims have ever been investigated or verified.

2) The people who compiled Exhibit 500 had an agenda in doing so. It was a document produced by Damien's defense team with the express motive of making him look as mad as possible just in case he was convicted so they could try and use it to avoid the death penalty.

You could also imply a third reason to suspect some of the contents of Exhibit 500 which stems from point number 2 above - the interviews with witnesses quoted in that document were all carried out between Damien's arrest and the end of the Echols/Baldwin trial. In other words, while he was all over the news as the accused leader of a satanist gang that killed three children. That's the kind of thing which taints witness evidence, especially among people who didn't like Damien for some reason of their own in the first place.

You are either in denial or extremely gullible.

 

[LordYAM]

You are either in denial or extremely gullible.

No he isn't. Jivepuppi wrote a brilliant series or articles describing how Exhibit 500 contained details that were exxagerated (many of them contain details as said by Jerry Driver and directly contradict actual documents).

https://www.jivepuppi.com/damien_echols_2.html
https://www.jivepuppi.com/damien_echols_3.html
https://www.jivepuppi.com/damien_echols_4.html
https://www.jivepuppi.com/damien_echols_5.html
https://www.jivepuppi.com/damien_echols_6.html

 

[dogmatica]

No he isn't. Jivepuppi wrote a brilliant series or articles describing how Exhibit 500 contained details that were exxagerated (many of them contain details as said by Jerry Driver and directly contradict actual documents).

https://www.jivepuppi.com/damien_echols_2.html
https://www.jivepuppi.com/damien_echols_3.html
https://www.jivepuppi.com/damien_echols_4.html
https://www.jivepuppi.com/damien_echols_5.html
https://www.jivepuppi.com/damien_echols_6.html

Uh huh. I've read those. Clearly you're just as gullible. Are you a 9/11 Truther too?

As Userid pointed out, you child murderer supporting fanatics believe in one gigantic conspiracy theory - one so far fetched it's actually comical. Burnett, Gitchell, Driver, the prosecutors, the WMPD, Bryn Ridge, Allen, Peretti, the list goes on. All of these separate entities conspired to frame these poor, innocent, sweet boys whose only crime was listening to Metallica and wearing black.

Don't chug your kool aid. Small sips, or you'll spill it on your shirt.

 

[Cappuccino]

Uh huh. I've read those. Clearly you're just as gullible. Are you a 9/11 Truther too?

As Userid pointed out, you child murderer supporting fanatics believe in one gigantic conspiracy theory - one so far fetched it's actually comical. Burnett, Gitchell, Driver, the prosecutors, the WMPD, Bryn Ridge, Allen, Peretti, the list goes on. All of these separate entities conspired to frame these poor, innocent, sweet boys whose only crime was listening to Metallica and wearing black.

Don't chug your kool aid. Small sips, or you'll spill it on your shirt.

You sound like a less British version of Lord Denning with his "appalling vista" in the Birmingham Six case. I'm sure you, like him, are well meaning but I'm equally sure you, like him, are utterly wrong.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/appalling-vista-judge-dies-at-100-26155585.html

 

[dogmatica]

You sound like a less British version of Lord Denning with his "appalling vista" in the Birmingham Six case. I'm sure you, like him, are well meaning but I'm equally sure you, like him, are utterly wrong.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/appalling-vista-judge-dies-at-100-26155585.html

Being sure of something doesn't make it so. Was this Lord Denning somehow involved in the WM3 conspiracy too? Must have been. This goes all the way to Buckingham Palace!

BTW, have you heard anything about this exculpatory evidence and the evidence of the "real killer"? Is Echols and his Hollywood money machine just teasing us by making us wait? When's the big reveal?

 

[Troyce]

I originally thought the 3 were innocent, but given enough space & time to reflect & research the cases, out of the glare of superstardom & martyrdom, I don't know anymore. I see enough in DE to recognize a narsaccist when I see one, & that is only a few steps away from a psychopath.